No more democracy

[obsolete]

Lately i've been not wasting beakers on democrazy tech paths at all. I've found out that there is a nice exploit with the UN. Even without Democracy, if I hold a ruling for universal emancipation, every AI votes yes. It doesn't matter that THEY all spent a lot of time and beakers researching for Demo, and made the switch going through anarchy, and I don't have it. They still vote yes.

This doesn't make sense, as it is only a win/win situation for me. I get emancipation now with NO ANARCHY! I also don't have the tech but get the full benefits. This can only hurt the other AI's by voting yes, but like idiots they fall for it giving me huge benefits. Even better, is by not getting Demo, I am opening up tech slots so I can get trades still going without being too advanced.

I've been using this UN for a lot of other civic changes too, just because it saves me turns from anarchy, and that in itself is a huge + I think, not including getting civics you don't even have the techs for.

Again, someone needs to fix the stupidity of the AI in some of these areas.

 

[BundtCake]

Lately i've been not wasting beakers on democrazy tech paths at all. I've found out that there is a nice exploit with the UN. Even without Democracy, if I hold a ruling for universal emancipation, every AI votes yes. It doesn't matter that THEY all spent a lot of time and beakers researching for Demo, and made the switch going through anarchy, and I don't have it. They still vote yes.

This doesn't make sense, as it is only a win/win situation for me. I get emancipation now with NO ANARCHY! I also don't have the tech but get the full benefits. This can only hurt the other AI's by voting yes, but like idiots they fall for it giving me huge benefits. Even better, is by not getting Demo, I am opening up tech slots so I can get trades still going without being too advanced.

I've been using this UN for a lot of other civic changes too, just because it saves me turns from anarchy, and that in itself is a huge + I think, not including getting civics you don't even have the techs for.

Again, someone needs to fix the stupidity of the AI in some of these areas.

I guess of you can stand the people when another Civ has Emancipation and you don't then this does work out well...

I'm still not clear on the whole UN deal anyway - who comes up with the stuff to vote on, and what does and "abstain" vote mean?

 

[shadow2k]

I guess of you can stand the people when another Civ has Emancipation and you don't then this does work out well...

I'm still not clear on the whole UN deal anyway - who comes up with the stuff to vote on, and what does and "abstain" vote mean?

The penalty from Emancipation takes a while to really hit you. I find that most of the time, only one or two civs get into it, while other civs lag in tech and don't get it for a long time. That leaves you a lot of turns to make other arrangements.

Building a cheap theatre and setting culture to 10% can usually negate it pretty well most of the time. If you really think about that, if you switched it up and put science at 10% to research Democracy...how many turns would that take? It's an easy way to save money.

As far as the UN...whoever gets elected as the UN Rep decides what to vote on. "Abstain" simply means they chose not to vote yes or no on whatever was being voted for.

 

[BundtCake]

As far as the UN...whoever gets elected as the UN Rep decides what to vote on. "Abstain" simply means they chose not to vote yes or no on whatever was being voted for.

I want to propose myself as President For Life of the world and put that to the UN. Or suggest that my religon becomes the world religion...

 

[Sisiutil]

Interesting tactic. The only problem I have with it is forgoing the Statue of Liberty--which is not an essential wonder, but very nice if you can get it.

 

[shadow2k]

Interesting tactic. The only problem I have with it is forgoing the Statue of Liberty--which is not an essential wonder, but very nice if you can get it.

Yeah, it's a nice wonder. I used to be in love with it, one of the ones I'd always build. But first off, I hate to make that tech any cheaper for the AI's...sometimes they'll put it off if you don't go for it. And more importantly, I'd rather get to Biology roughly 11,000 beakers quicker (epic), and spend those 2,250 hammers on something like brand new cannons to introduce to my neighbors.

 

[Quagga]

This approach does hinge on the human getting elected Secretary General or at least having an AI that proposes Emancipation quickly. Those are not guarantees, near as I can tell.

On the other hand, I think Democracy often is not of exceeding value.

I usually care about it only because of the Emancipation penalty, which sometimes seems to create a freakishly large number of unhappy faces. In other games, even without it, I seem to have enough happy resources that it has no significant effect. I can live with a little smoke here and there.

Universal Sufferage can be vital, but only if you have a lot of spare cash. I rarely find myself in that situation. Also, Democracy is not needed for US if you have the Pyramids, which I do have a good percentage of the time. Finally, the hammer per town is nice, but strategic production cities shouldn't have any towns.

Therefore, I already do not research Democracy. What this thread and the one exposing the issue with too many trades do for me is make me reluctant to trade for Democracy. Unless I'm overcome by frowny faces, no Democracy for me!

 

[shadow2k]

This approach does hinge on the human getting elected Secretary General or at least having an AI that proposes Emancipation quickly.

Nah...you can finish the game without even bothering to ever get into emancipation even with the elections. The absolute worst I've seen from it so far is 8 unhappy faces, although most of my games end in dom/con...so others might have more of an issue. If you've gone the warring route, you have a lot of land, and plenty of happy resources to make up for it...and might even have planned wars to acquire them. If you've gone peaceful, you should have enough friends to trade with.

At that stage of the game for me, 10% on the lux slider, or whatever it might take to overcome it, may very well be worth keeping slavery and not having a two or three turn anarchy at a time I can't afford it. I feel seriously crippled without slavery, it's my favorite civic...and I've just started to simply refuse to abandon it for a worthless civic for the way I play. And of course, slavery comes with the ability to deal with that emancipation unhappiness in it's own special way...

 

[KMadCandy]

re:statue of liberty and democracy...

Yeah, it's a nice wonder. I used to be in love with it, one of the ones I'd always build. But first off, I hate to make that tech any cheaper for the AI's...sometimes they'll put it off if you don't go for it.

i never thought about that aspect, that once you discover a tech it gets cheaper for the bad guys. duh on me!

 

[Sisiutil]

Since the patch, the AI civs seem to like Democracy a lot more than they used to. They're researching it before I do now, and then I've got a race on my hands if I want to build ol' copper britches. Which I especially do if I'm running a Specialist Economy game.

 

[CivDude86]

Ignoring emancipation is fine until you go to war and start getting some WW, then that 8 would means 8 units stuck sitting in this town keeping them happy.

 

[shadow2k]

Ignoring emancipation is fine until you go to war and start getting some WW, then that 8 would means 8 units stuck sitting in this town keeping them happy.

Whip a couple happy buildings, problem solved. Or ratchet up the culture slider a notch. It's really not that difficult to deal with, been doing it for a while.

At the very worst, you'd be able to trade for democracy at that point anyway because everyone would have it if you've got 8 unhappy from emancipation. Then you can suffer through that anarchy at the best possible time...when your cities were unproductive due to WW anyway.

I'd personally rather whip it away and use the slider though. I looked through the happiness caps on my cities from past games, and I just don't see why this would be that big of an issue. Maybe it's just playstyle, and you grow your cities a lot bigger without providing the proper infra for it, or don't acquire enough happy resources through war/trade...dunno...