No Science Challenge

[Rochelio]

Greetings from Emperor Rochelio of the Lesbians!

What a nice forum. Some post even helped me solve the slo-mo problem, so I'm now able to waste my time playing Civ again, woohoo!

I thought of a new (?) challenge yesterday, the "No Science Challenge" (NSC): Start the game without any civilization advances (irrigation, mining, and roads only) and then win without producing a single lightbulb. Every other method of acquiring civ advances (including the Great Library and finding scrolls of ancient wisdom) is allowed.

I played NSC on chieftain yesterday and won ridiculously easy. I'll try prince now... Let's see if anyone can make it on emperor!

 

[Irish Caesar]

Great idea!

I tested it on Warlord without too much trouble (although I admit I had Alphabet at the start...but that doesn't give any units or buildings, so I hope that's fine.)

What constitutes winning?
Simply surviving or is there more to it?

I finished at the top of the Power Graph, but my score was only 13%.

 

[Rochelio]

Alphabet is OK, yeah.

There's the usual two ways of winning, Alpha Centauri and conquering the whole planet (in time, of course).

I made it (NSC on Emperor) a few days ago, btw! I restricted the rules a bit more for that game, i.e. I didn't walk into villages for ancient wisdom, and I didn't build Great Library or Darwin.

I started on a medium size continent of my own and developed it for like 3000 years, founding lots of small cities. When the English finally showed up (Knights and all), I offered them one of my towns by removing all the Militia units. They took it, and I won it back with like a dozen Militias.

I took Writing so I could build Diplomats. The English kept coming back, I kept offering a city, the idiots kept taking it. I then always sent one diplomat to steal a civ advance and another one to incite a revolt (of course I had lots of money), taking another advance. The second advance I took was Religion, so I could build Bach using lots of Caravans.

There was a tense moment when the Americans attacked my peaceful empire with tons of Armors, but I was able to buy back all cities lost. Finally I felt strong enough to set foot on the enemy continents (after building Women's Suffrage), and after a few setbacks, I overcame my enemies, inciting revolts left and right, woo-yay! The game was over in 1750 +/- a few turns.

I think it's far too easy (i.e. too cheap) to incite revolts, btw. I bought size ten cities with Nukes and lots of defensive units behind city walls for like 1200 coins...

I'm now playing OCC (One City Challenge). I already made it as Prince, but I'm having a hard time as Emperor. Does anybody know the exact OCC rules?

 

[karsten]

He Im gonna try this. And im gonna combine the OCC with the NSC. This sounds cool,tho i dont think im up for it, since im still having trouble with a regular game on chieftain.

 

[covok48]

This is bad...very bad. Chariots knocking on my door with my green defending warriors.

 

[Wil]

I'll try this one one day: no R&D. (note that even with R&D, emperor is too tough for me) But getting free techs in huts is OK, no? Building Darwin is too much like R&D, like a nice civ, but the great library is a bast***'s trick, fully in the spirit of the challenge: we don't help science, we wait for others to do it.

 

[Judge_Deadd]

Sorry for bumping this. I wanted to tell about my experience...
(4 civs: me, Germans, Egyptians, Romans.)

Initial progress was very slow, since I couldn't find any other nations for a long time. Eventually I found Germans on the same continent and ruined their civilization by flooding them with Militias. I got a handful of useful techs from them, including Writing. Unfortunately, I failed to destroy the last German city and thus they managed to raise themselves from the ashes and even steal some of my advanced technologies later on.

Anyway, after devastating the Germans, I carried a couple of Diplomats on a Trireme (thanksto MapMaking I found in a hut) onto the great continent with Egyptian and Roman cities. The Romans were pretty advanced, the Egyptians less so. I managed to buy a couple of cities at the southern edge and used them as my base of operations, producing Diplomats and Catapults (and later Cannons when I stole Metallurgy). Buying units left and right, I conquered some Egyptian cities, and bought everything else. The only problem was Thebes, the Egyptian capital, which had City Walls and lots of good defenders inside. I managed to defeat them by producing lots of cannons, surrounding Thebes with them and attacking relentlessly.

I then moved onto the continent with the rest of Roman cities. I didn't bother to fight, I simply bought them all and finally crushed Rome with a couple of armors.

Unfortunately the time was running out and I didn't manage to find the rest of Roman and German cities before I had to retire. But it was still a swell experience.

 

[Tristan_C]

Sorry for bumping this. I wanted to tell about my experience...
(4 civs: me, Germans, Egyptians, Romans.)

Initial progress was very slow, since I couldn't find any other nations for a long time. Eventually I found Germans on the same continent and ruined their civilization by flooding them with Militias. I got a handful of useful techs from them, including Writing. Unfortunately, I failed to destroy the last German city and thus they managed to raise themselves from the ashes and even steal some of my advanced technologies later on.

Anyway, after devastating the Germans, I carried a couple of Diplomats on a Trireme (thanksto MapMaking I found in a hut)

I guess that was the problem right there. If you want to take this approach without the great library, then you absolutely must keep neighbors on your landmass alive so that you can sock them for Mapmaking, but you might even need navigation. You don't want to get stuck into having to luck-sock a specific tech out of a hut!

 

[Theov]

Greetings indeed.

 

[L4zybugg3r]

This sounds like an interesting challenge. Maybe I will dust off Civ I to give it a go. My immediate thought is that building barracks to get veteran militia won't improve their attack strength so it will be just warriors and settlers for the first little bit.

 

[Cavius]

Free mercenaries from villages i.e. Legion units (especially early on) makes this challenge do-able. Conquest is definitely fathomable but I can't imagine anyone winning the space race in this manner. Has anyone acheived this condition yet?

 

[Dack]

Multi part attempt at the no science challenge. As this thread had surfaced and I decided to play, my expectation of success is low.
Customize World, Large, Temperate, Normal, 4 billion years, King

First hut I walk into gave me
3920 BC: ENGLISH DISCOVER MAPMAKING
This certainly in my mind is a very important advance.

Took a while to find a suitable site for my first city.
3780 BC: ENGLISH FOUND THE CITY OF LONDON
Now using the standard EICD (Explore, Identify, Contain, Destroy) method I produce three militia and move out.

A hut gave me a second city.
3120 BC: ENGLISH FOUND THE CITY OF COVENTRY
another hut and the ability to build temples.
3000 BC: ENGLISH DISCOVER CEREMONIAL BURIAL
All I need is Mathematics or The Wheel to be a force to be reckoned with,
So by 2760BC I have discovered that I’m alone on an island with the French. In the process of bottling them up. Advances acquired to date: Alphabet, Code of Laws, MapMaking, Masonry, Bronze Working, Ceremonial Burial and Pottery. If the other islands are near, using some Triremes exploration is in order.

 

[Dack]

2220BC
Sailing around I have found the Americans, Zulus and the Aztecs on nearby islands.
I landed a phalanx on the Aztec island. Stumbled on to a unprotected city, Coatepec. Made peace with the Aztecs, traded technologies with them. I got the best of the bargain - The Wheel, Mathematics, Writing giving of course the Chariot, Catapult, Diplomat.

1720BC
I’ve hammered out the French, have eight cities producing various units to visit upon my neighbors. Continuing exploration.

__ 2220BC _______ 1720BC

 

[void]

This is cool, keep up the reports Dack! Looks like you're on track for a conquest victory.

 

[Dack]

740BC
Since the last update I’ve eliminated; 1660BC Zulus, 1560BC Babylonians, 1380BC Americans, 1020BC Aztecs, 860BC Chinese.
In 1420BC built the Lighthouse mostly with coins from treasury to give the Triremes a little more range. I have a few units searching the large island looking for any secondary civilizations that may have settled there. Some Triremes have been lost in wild stabs into the darkness looking for other islands. By some luck a trireme bridge the cap and found an island maybe it will contain some of the missing civilizations. At the moment there are four active civilizations, only the Germans are known to me. There is a gap from the artic to the newly discovered island of 5 ocean squares but with a trireme near the island they each can go two squares transfer any units and make it back safely.

640BC eliminated the Egyptians
600BC eliminated the Germans
500BC At war with the Mongols, one other civilization active

 

[Dack]

420BC
I don’t know where or remember if the missing civilization Romans/Russians are primary or secondary. I didn’t encounter then. Did someone else destroy them? So it’s either a thriving civ on some undiscovered island or a single city right under my nose.
The Mongols seem as developed as I am. It’s a logistical struggle bring units to their island. Confidence is high that their end is near.

320BC

Taken a few Mongol cities by force and/or inciting a revolt. Found the Romans.
180BC
The last Mongol city falls and with it their civilization. A new civ appears, so the search continues.

 

[Dack]

120 BC: Roman and Indian civilization destroyed

So the end comes, after the fall of the Mongols, the Indians appeared near by with an unprotected city. When I started this I expected failure as this seems like the most improbable challenge. I can only credit my success to luck; the first hut gave me mapmaking; getting The Wheel, Mathematics, Writing from the Aztecs, and most of the other civilizations being within trireme range. Even the Mongols being at a distance and a little tricky to bridge the sea gap were the only difficulty.
To win this challenge with a space ship win would be quite an accomplishment.


The attached zip file is the MAP & SVE of the earliest save.
My results:

WOW 136%

REPLAY.TXT

Spoiler :

4000 BC: Russians found the city of Moscow
4000 BC: Zulus found the city of Zimbabwe
4000 BC: French found the city of Paris
4000 BC: Aztecs found the city of Tenochtitlan
3980 BC: Americans found the city of Washington
3980 BC: Mongols found the city of Samarkand
3920 BC: ENGLISH DISCOVER MAPMAKING
3900 BC: Zulus produce first Militia
3820 BC: Russians produce first Phalanx
3780 BC: French discover Alphabet
3780 BC: ENGLISH FOUND THE CITY OF LONDON
3740 BC: Aztecs produce first Settlers
3640 BC: Zulus discover The Wheel
3540 BC: French discover Bronze Working
3440 BC: Aztecs found the city of Chiauhtia
3420 BC: Aztecs discover Code of Laws
3400 BC: ENGLISH DISCOVER MASONRY
3240 BC: Aztecs discover Mathematics
3220 BC: French found the city of Orleans
3180 BC: Zulus discover Horseback Riding
3160 BC: Mongols discover Iron Working
3160 BC: Mongols make peace with Russians
3120 BC: ENGLISH FOUND THE CITY OF COVENTRY
3080 BC: Americans found the city of New York
3040 BC: Aztecs discover Pottery
3040 BC: Aztecs make peace with Zulus
3040 BC: English make peace with French
3040 BC: Mongols found the city of Bokhara
3000 BC: ENGLISH: 2 CITIES; 40,000 POPULATION
*** 1:Aztecs 2:Mongols 3:French 4:English 5:Americans 6:Russians 7:Zulus
3000 BC: ENGLISH DISCOVER CEREMONIAL BURIAL
2920 BC: Zulus declare war on Aztecs
2840 BC: Americans found the city of Boston
2820 BC: French discover Writing
2800 BC: Aztecs found the city of Chapultepec
2720 BC: ENGLISH FOUND THE CITY OF BIRMINGHAM
2700 BC: ENGLISH PRODUCE FIRST TRIREME
2620 BC: Mongols produce first Chariot
2560 BC: English make peace with Americans
2400 BC: Aztecs discover Literacy
2400 BC: English make peace with Aztecs
2320 BC: Zulus found the city of Ulundi
2320 BC: Aztecs found the city of Coatepec
2300 BC: French discover Monarchy
2300 BC: French form Monarchy
2300 BC: Americans found the city of Philadelphia
2280 BC: English declare war on Aztecs
2280 BC: Coatepec destroyed
2280 BC: English make peace with Aztecs
2260 BC: Mongols found the city of Nishapur
2200 BC: English make peace with Zulus
2160 BC: ENGLISH PRODUCE FIRST CATAPULT
2140 BC: Aztecs found the city of Ayotzinco
2020 BC: Americans form Monarchy
2020 BC: English declare war on Aztecs
2020 BC: Ayotzinco destroyed
2000 BC: ENGLISH: 3 CITIES; 180,000 POPULATION
*** 1:English 2:Mongols 3:Americans 4:Aztecs 5:French 6:Zulus 7:Russians
2000 BC: ENGLISH DISCOVER THE REPUBLIC
2000 BC: English declare war on French
1980 BC: ENGLISH CAPTURE ORLEANS
1980 BC: English make peace with French
1980 BC: ENGLISH DISCOVER CURRENCY
1900 BC: Aztecs found the city of Itzapalapa
1900 BC: ENGLISH FOUND THE CITY OF DOVER
1900 BC: English declare war on French
1880 BC: Americans build the Colossus
1860 BC: ENGLISH PRODUCE FIRST DIPLOMAT
1840 BC: Itzapalapa destroyed
1840 BC: Aztecs form Republic
1840 BC: English declare war on Zulus
1820 BC: Ulundi destroyed
1820 BC: ENGLISH FOUND THE CITY OF NOTTINGHAM
1800 BC: ENGLISH FOUND THE CITY OF YORK
1760 BC: Aztecs produce first Cavalry
1760 BC: ENGLISH CAPTURE PARIS
1760 BC: French civilization destroyed by English
1720 BC: Germans found the city of Berlin
1680 BC: English make peace with Zulus
1680 BC: English declare war on Zulus
1680 BC: Mongols produce first Legion
1660 BC: Zimbabwe destroyed
1660 BC: Zulu civilization destroyed by English
1640 BC: Babylonians found the city of Babylon
1620 BC: Mongols found the city of Karakorum
1560 BC: Americans declare war on English
1560 BC: ENGLISH CAPTURE NEW YORK
1560 BC: Babylon destroyed
1560 BC: Babylonian civilization destroyed by Mongols
1540 BC: Aztecs discover Mysticism
1520 BC: English make peace with Aztecs
1520 BC: English make peace with Americans
1460 BC: Aztecs make peace with Germans
1460 BC: English declare war on Americans
1460 BC: ENGLISH CAPTURE WASHINGTON
1460 BC: English make peace with Americans
1440 BC: English declare war on Americans
1440 BC: ENGLISH CAPTURE BOSTON
1420 BC: ENGLISH BUILD THE LIGHTHOUSE
1400 BC: English make peace with Americans
1380 BC: English declare war on Americans
1380 BC: ENGLISH CAPTURE PHILADELPHIA
1380 BC: American civilization destroyed by English
1360 BC: Chinese found the city of Peking
1300 BC: Mongols build the Hanging Gardens
1280 BC: Russians declare war on Mongols
1280 BC: Mongols found the city of Kashgar
1260 BC: English declare war on Aztecs
1240 BC: Chapultepec destroyed
1240 BC: English make peace with Aztecs
1160 BC: English declare war on Aztecs
1120 BC: ENGLISH CAPTURE TENOCHTITLAN
1100 BC: English make peace with Aztecs
1060 BC: English declare war on Aztecs
1040 BC: English make peace with Chinese
1020 BC: ENGLISH CAPTURE CHIAUHTIA
1020 BC: Aztec civilization destroyed by English
1000 BC: ENGLISH: 13 CITIES; 1,050,000 POPULATION
*** 1:English 2:Mongols 3:Egyptians 4:Russians 5:Germans 6:Chinese
960 BC: Egyptians found the city of Thebes
900 BC: Mongols found the city of Tabriz
880 BC: Egyptians form Monarchy
860 BC: English declare war on Chinese
860 BC: Peking destroyed
860 BC: Chinese civilization destroyed by English
860 BC: Mongols found the city of Aleppo
800 BC: English make peace with Germans
800 BC: English declare war on Germans
720 BC: Moscow destroyed
720 BC: Russian civilization destroyed by Mongols
680 BC: Romans found the city of Rome
660 BC: Romans form Monarchy
660 BC: ENGLISH DISCOVER ASTRONOMY
640 BC: Thebes destroyed
640 BC: Egyptian civilization destroyed by English
620 BC: English make peace with Mongols
620 BC: Mongols found the city of Kabul
600 BC: Berlin destroyed
600 BC: German civilization destroyed by English
600 BC: Mongols declare war on English
600 BC: ENGLISH CAPTURE TABRIZ
540 BC: Tabriz destroyed
400 BC: ENGLISH CAPTURE KARAKORUM
380 BC: ENGLISH CAPTURE BOKHARA
320 BC: ENGLISH CAPTURE KASHGAR
320 BC: English make peace with Romans
300 BC: Aleppo destroyed
300 BC: ENGLISH CAPTURE NISHAPUR
300 BC: English make peace with Mongols
260 BC: English declare war on Romans
260 BC: English declare war on Mongols
220 BC: ENGLISH CAPTURE SAMARKAND
220 BC: English make peace with Mongols
200 BC: English declare war on Mongols
180 BC: Kabul destroyed
180 BC: Mongol civilization destroyed by English
180 BC: Indians found the city of Delhi
120 BC: ENGLISH CAPTURE ROME
120 BC: Roman civilization destroyed by English
120 BC: Delhi destroyed
120 BC: Indian civilization destroyed by English

 

[L4zybugg3r]

Nice work Dack. Especially like the finish date. I was able to finish it on emperor with a much worse finish date - annoying Frenchies. I think it was about 1750AD but I'm sure you could flog that (sorry I don't have the save anymore). It took a while to take the pyramid city on the French mainland to allow me Communism which made my cities so much better. I also lost the mids shortly after that but somehow I was not forced out of communism even though I did not have the pre-requisite tech. I'm sure someone has seen this before it just seemed interesting at the time.

It's hard if you don't have writing or wheel/horseback riding/iron working/mathematics. I found out in earlier attempts that you could let the enemy take a city so long as you had militia ready to take it right back and hopefully steal a military tech or writing. I imagine this challenge would be very difficult if you started on your own land and did not get map making in a village. This was an interesting challenge. I might try and do a space race without teching next.

 

[C1v1l1z@t10n]

Cool, I will try this too.
But I'm very interested which version you guys use? if it is 474.01-474.02 I'm sure this is not so hard, if it is version 474.03-474.05 it could get pretty hard.
Like most who played already, if you just get a land mass where you reach others you will take their techs either by giving a city you take back or later by diplomats.
So 100% money but all the rest is allowed such as huts/wonders etc?

Edit: Forgot to ask, you all play with 7 civilizations right? I never play with less, I wish there was more like in FreeCiv

 

[weevil]

I completed the no science challenge today. It wasn't as hard as I imagined, but it was great fun. I got a really bad completion date of 1940ish AD due to a very slow start.

Emperor, 7 civilizations, version 474.05

I started as the Germans on a small island together with the Egyptians. My plan was to milk the Egyptians of tech until I got map making and then kill them off. My plan started of pretty good as I got writing very early but no map making, and perhaps even worse no offensive tech. I was stuck with militias and stuck on my little crappy island.

At around 1000 BC the Russians came to visit. They had already destroyed at least one other civilization and seemed very strong as usual. They invaded with chariots and phalanxes, and naturally I let the take one of my cities so I could get to two new tech from them (one from steal tech and one from taking the city back). I took map making and invaded the Russians with diplomats. I also finished of the Egyptians as I had no need for them any longer. I got a range of techs from the Russians in this way, and meeting the Greeks on the Russian island I exchanged all the techs I had stolen for new techs from the Greeks. I was now the most advanced civilization in the game!

I started a lengthy war with Russia, buying up cities mostly, and eventually conquered the island for myself. Furtunately for me Leningrad has the Pyramids so I switched to democracy and adjusted my tax to keep everyone happy. From here on out it was super easy. I had such an superior economy that I could simply buy up all the remaining civilizations.

I think I got lucky in that the largest continent was inhabited by the Mongols, who just plain suck at expanding. If it had been an expansionistic civilization I might have been in a lot of trouble.