"No Shame in Deterence"

[steveg700]

I just did a pretty bog standard late-game where you get bored waiting on an inevitable victory condition and decide to roll anybody who's provided any trifling annoyance. Apparently, being in any kind of alliance means when the other guy declares war, you automatically DOW along with'im. Thought that was just military alliances, but small matter.

So, I take treat this as an opportunity to help myself to some of his everything, snatch up Delhi and some other prime real estate (the threat of loyalty pressure actually can drive a fellow to do more conquering than he otherwise might). Then he offers me a generous peace deal, which, being an amicable sort, I take him up on.

Then he follows up on his turn with that bit of sophistry about there being no shame in deterrence, as he draws a broad distinction between having a weapon and using it. I've tried to look up with this line supposed to mean. Some assert that this is an agenda-compliance line, but seems kind of unlikely in this case, and agenda satisfaction or transgression is generally accompanied with expository text identifying it as such.

Is this a veiled threat? A compliment? What's this getting at?

 

[Zaarin]

It's a reference to the Nuclear Gandhi meme. Gandhi is heavily weighted to have the hidden agenda that makes him like civs that have nuclear weapons, but his primary agenda is to dislike civs that go to war--so therefore he likes civs that have nuclear weapons but don't use them. Hence "having a weapon is very different from actually using it." All civ leaders have lines that cue you in to their agenda--Gandhi's just the only one that includes his hidden agenda in that.

 

[Yzman]

Just an fyi, I believe the alliance thing is more of a defense pact, meaning that if your ally gets Declared on, you automatically come to their aid.

 

[blackcatatonic]

Having a nuke is not nearly as much fun as using it

 

[Archon_Wing]

He says that when you fulfill his agenda, that is to have a good army but not go to war with it.

 

[Disgustipated]

I generally only get this when his military strength score is higher than mine.

 

[Legacy of Smiles]

It's worth noting you don't need to have a good army - his agenda has triggered even when I had no army at all.

My own interpretation on what his quote means: It's fine if you have weapons but it's whether or not you use it that counts.

And yeah, alliances are pretty finicky. There should be more available in-game.

 

[Morningcalm]

It's still unclear to many what these agenda approval quotes really mean, and so they should really try to clarify on the screens that they are agenda fulfillment quotes (if they didn't already).

 

[cvb]

Having a nuke is not nearly as much fun as using it

We have the saying, that much used tools become blunt.

Also in the discussions Pershing2 versus SS20, I somehow liked the position "no new weapons, until we have run out of the old ones".

PS. When I played Civ1, I never experienced neurotic Gandhi, but I remember well Mr. Lincoln mentioning always, that "his words are backed up with nuclear weapons".

 

[redfox85]

.. I remember seeing the "words are backed with nuclear weapons" from Ashurbanipal of Assyria in civ V. Was quite a surprise. I promptly nuked him.

 

[Yzman]

It's still unclear to many what these agenda approval quotes really mean, and so they should really try to clarify on the screens that they are agenda fulfillment quotes (if they didn't already).

I believe they do but you need to have a certain level of information about the civ. So for example, if you know their agenda due to intrigue, it will tell you that you have completed their agenda. If you don't have that level of intelligence about them, they will still say it, but you have to guess what they mean.

I know I have seen quotes and then below them it says "You have fulfilled their agenda"

 

[Stringer1313]

I really miss our words are backed with nuclear weapons

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

Something to clarify

There's two types of agenda, hidden, and historical

Historical Agenda are unique in that they come with a cutscene, Hidden ones do not.

But Hidden Ones also need to be uncovered via Access Level.

If you trigger a change in the Hidden Agenda, and have the right Access, it will say (You have transgressed agenda : Darwinist). This does not exist for Historical ones, as they are triggered by cutscenes that are unique to each leader.

The whole "No Shame In Deterence" is a kudos (positive), that satisfys his desire to be around peaceful civilizations. If you were to declare an offensive war against a major city (and possibly against a minor civ) it will flip to a negative one.

 

[steveg700]

Perhaps some of the context provided in the OP was missed by same of the folks who have replied.

I just got out of a long war with him where I took his capital and two other cities. Seems like this is not the time to give a player kudos for satisfying a peace agenda.

 

[Archon_Wing]

The best is when you kill someone off, and Teddy congratulates you for keeping the peace.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

Perhaps some of the context provided in the OP was missed by same of the folks who have replied.

I just got out of a long war with him where I took his capital and two other cities. Seems like this is not the time to give a player kudos for satisfying a peace agenda.

He will be happy as long as you are at peace and are not participating in any offensive wars, so as weird as it is, he will give Kudos once you declare peace.

 

[steveg700]

He will be happy as long as you are at peace and are not participating in any offensive wars, so as weird as it is, he will give Kudos once you declare peace.

Sooooooooooo...........Grievance system, eh?

 

[Disgustipated]

The best is when you kill someone off, and Teddy congratulates you for keeping the peace.

That's my idea of peace. Violent pacification.

 

[Zaarin]

The best is when you kill someone off, and Teddy congratulates you for keeping the peace.

Actually that seems very in-character for Teddy. We are talking about the guy who called the Spanish-American War "a splendid little war" and who "convinced" Japan to open up to trade by camping a giant fleet off their coast.

 

[ChocolateShake]

It's a reference to the Nuclear Gandhi meme.

"Nuclear Gandhi" sounds like it'd be a good band name

.. I remember seeing the "words are backed with nuclear weapons" from Ashurbanipal of Assyria in civ V. Was quite a surprise. I promptly nuked him.

I always liked that phrasing, especially in civ2 when it was all caps as far as I remember. Going to be fun using them and the GDR when Gathering Storm comes out.