Nobles' Club 277: Joao II of Portugal

[krikav]

Burocracy does increase the commerce from traderoutes, and I did end up building the UB in this capital, almost certainly worthwhile I think.
Think he has 2 unhealth.

@dankok8 I would have cottaged the riverside plains way earlier too, and would not at all have farmed the floodplain. I did cottage the grassland hill too, and I did alternate between mines/windmills for the two plains-hills depending on if I where building something or not.

 

[dankok8]

@dankok8

Responding to "The power of HR". You have a big capital city. The image is murky, are you suffering unhealth? Does the bureaucracy civic increase commerce from trade routes? Is a feitoria worthwhile?

Yes Bureau increases overall production and commerce by 50%. Considering trade routes are commerce, Bureau does have a synergistic effect with trade routes. The Feitoria may be worth it in the capital because I can knock it out very quickly. If it boosts each trade route to +6 with four trade routes that's a gain of 8 + 50% from Bureau = 12 . That's not much. From working five water tiles we get +5 + 50% from Bureau = 7.5 . In total the Feitoria will bring in 19 more which is ok but far from great.

Lisbon has 2 . I don't think that's too bad.

 

[user330977]

Hello folks,

chalking this up as a win. My end-of-game pictures below. Monarch difficulty.

Spoiler :

Some lessons learnt:

Spoiler :

Probably could (and should) have won this sooner, but I enjoy the later eras anyway.

- it's the aim of the game, but I learnt a lot about city specialisation in this game. My first production city never grew beyond size 5 but was pumping out rifles and cannons every 3-4 turns (on epic speed). I planted some good cottage cities that developed into commercial monsters later on.

- don't take your foot off the gas. After my initial war with Mansa Musa, I probably could have inflicted some pain on another AI but took some time to recoup. I think this gave them some breathing room and caused me more pain than necessary.

- tech trading. It's not a big deal if you aren't first to every tech - as long as you can trade for it, that is. Related to this, accepting requests for help and demands. I used to refuse on principle (how dare they ask for free stuff!) but now I think twice. It's a good relation boost and buys some time before a war.

- Protective enemies are a PAIN to fight, and this map had THREE of the suckers. I had the tech advantage mostly so didn't suffer too much, but with parity, prepare for a world of hurt.

Really enjoyed this game and will think of taking part next round, too. So... step up to Emperor next?

Kind regards,
Ita Bear

 

[AcaMetis]

Really enjoyed this game and will think of taking part next round, too. So... step up to Emperor next?

Next up on the docket is mister Quechua himself, so...probably can afford to set up in difficulty, yes .

 

[Fish Man]

Next up on the docket is mister Quechua himself, so...probably can afford to set up in difficulty, yes .

Oooh...you could try posting a HoF-worthy map so that people can try their hand at ridiculous-speed finishes!

 

[AcaMetis]

Oooh...you could try posting a HoF-worthy map so that people can try their hand at ridiculous-speed finishes!

HoF worthy maps would take many attempts to roll, and I'm not very familiar with the finer details that those maps require. It also wouldn't be much of a NC game since, well, can't really learn much RE: playing the game normally when you start with HC, triple BFC riverside Gems in your capital and wipe out three Deity AIs with nothing but a flood of UU Warriors .

That said I've got a map that could possibly, maybe, potentially teach a new-ish player a few tricks. Maybe. My usual strategy of "just throw stuff on the board and see what happens" has been pretty successful so far, so why fix what isn't broken .

 

[user330977]

When will the next game be live? I'm itching to jump up a level and see what the fuss is with Huayna and his Quechuas.

Kind regards,
Ita Bear

 

[krikav]

When will the next game be live? I'm itching to jump up a level and see what the fuss is with Huayna and his Quechuas.

Kind regards,
Ita Bear

Omg! It's monday today! Weee!

 

[AcaMetis]

Got the map open and making final adjustments as we speak .

 

[Alexander IV]

33 hours spent and at last I've finished it! I'll try to post some important moments only. And some saves. It's Deity, NHNE, Buffy 3.19.005.

Spoiler :

Spoiler t125 :

Zara is always a problem in the late game

Spoiler t137 :

Lib Astro, settlers and workers ready

Spoiler t177 :

My first war

Spoiler t189 :

These were my monopoly techs for quite a long time

Spoiler t189 a :

Maybe this is the reason

Spoiler t225 :

Some pictures lost, I got Timbuktu and then Seoul after, the second war didn't last long, I got two cities and liberated one (and one was smashed accidentally) Wang Kon had Infantry, but we got number.

Seoul

Spoiler t239 :

At turn 239 war with Alexander is over, all 4 cities given back to him

Spoiler t247 :

At 1685AD my army doesn't have artillery yet, but it's very big. DoW Zara this turn, war lasts six turns

Spoiler t258 :

Next war is few turns later, capitulation in six turns

Spoiler t274 :

Toku and his New World colony (Mao) capped on the same turn. I maybe missed something, but when Toku capped he still had a vassal, I haven't seen that before. Usually they liberate themselves before master state's capitulation. Seems to me it's not necessary to have no vassals to capitulate

 

[krikav]

@Alexander IV

Spoiler :

Love those army screenshots at T247 and T258.

With enough units, it's easier to capitulate the AIs.
I kind of like to change espionage focus to other AIs as the game goes along, not to gain visibility of teching, but to get visibility of power rating.

 

[Alexander IV]

Spoiler :

Spoiler t275 1810AD :

So it was a Conquest Victory at 1810. First Conquest on Deity, nice movie in the end, I don't watch it often =)

Spoiler The best city in the game :

Spoiler Poverty Point :

The funniest thing about Dover was that on the first turn of war (I use airships to see enemy land) quiet a lot of English troops marched to that town, that was really LOL

Spoiler The end :

That was my fourth Deity victory, but I felt like this game was easier than usual. I think the reasons were 1) AI couldn't get much land on this type of map 2) my neighbour was Mansa (things could go really bad if it was Toku for example, he was many times DoWed by Apostolic Palace, I voted willingly only because he was very far away) 3) the whole diplo situation, many wars besides the Toku war (England - Mali, Ethiopia - Greece). Only once Wang Kon plotted on me, but I begged 10 gold and the red feast disappeared
So really I cannot say Hey go settler first with Imps and get all the PH hammers - fractal map and the other AIs can ruin this gamble easily (and they do =|) I think this is a very pleasant map which lets you do some crazy things and don't punish you for that immediately. I had a very good time playing it. A lot of thanks to the people creating these maps!

Spoiler Saves :

Game played with Buffy mod 3.19.005

 

[Alexander IV]

@krikav

Spoiler :

Yes, I like late game when things go well and you can just build as many units as you wish =)

 

[dankok8]

Decided to complete this game after all because it was so interesting and unusual.

Late Space Win -- Turn 361 (1941 AD)

Spoiler :

I realize that not fighting a single war all game wasn't optimal. These AI's were fairly weak and would have gone down to an aggressive approach. Instead I settled a ton of cities on the islands... 34 in total. Just ended up going for Space. I was forced to stop a couple of trades which stopped the influx of happiness so my cities were struggling a lot for 10-20 turns around the time I was researching Rocketry which slowed me down.

At the end of the game, my population was almost double the next AI which was Zara. In fact Zara and his voluntary vassals Churchill and Toku barely had a little more pop than me in the Diplo Victory screen. Don't remember the last time that happened. I can't remember a game I didn't fight a single war but had such a massive pop lead on Immortal.

Anyways in the late game, Mansa was the only threat so I bribed Zara and Churchill to go after him and rough him up a bit. They did a pretty fine job slowing down and crazy Mansa was maybe 5-7 turns from launching when I won. Seems like he kept building Spaceship parts even while at war. Others were much further back.

 

[konata_LS]

@dankok8

Spoiler :

Congrats on your victory!
Now you've won Space on Immortal, and this time you achieved it with a non-FIN leader

More and more people are looking forward to seeing your "I badly want to win Space on Deity" thread

 

[dankok8]

@konata_LS

Spoiler :

Deity is so difficult that it kills the fun of the game for me. I like to be able to win without intense micromanagement.

My progression has been basically playing more and more difficult Immortal maps. I feel like Immortal is flexible enough that a lot of of approaches can work. On Deity almost every game is a rush to settle 5-6 good cities and then break out with Cuirs or something. Unless you're an absolute ace like Lain... he can try and get Creative on Deity. I'm nowhere near his level and many other top guys.

 

[pigswill]

Initial thoughts looking at settings. Terra with high sea level means a small continent with 7-8 civs packed tight so land will be at a premium. Argument for settling capital inland and backfilling with coastal cities. Could either be played as a small Pangea if you're any good at early rushes or astronomy beeline to grab the new world.

 

[konata_LS]

@dankok8

Spoiler :

Your feelings about IMM and DEI are shared by other players. They deal quite well with the games on IMM as you do, but feel the gap bewteen IMM and DEI is too huge. Maybe that's why "Demigod" has been introduced in recent NC games. Your efforts seem to be on the right direction, because when you can win several difficult maps on Immortal, it may be a sign that you're ready to challenge the next level.

 

[Izuul]

Deity T101

BTW, is there a good photo hosting website that people use these days? I used to upload all of my screenshots to Photobucket back when it was free. Or it just easier to upload them here?

Spoiler :

I went with SIP and AG > BW. I can't really imagine teching anything else here. On T52 i popped gold at Lisbon! Prior to that i thought Monarchy might be very important, but just getting +1 happiness is a really big deal, not to mention the extra commerce to help fund expansion.

I decided to tech Alpha after TW > Pottery > Writing since i really wanted to trade for IW and i had only met 3 AI (one of which was Toku). It appears i just barely beat Mansa to this Sugar spot. It's not a great spot early, but I didn't want Mansa to get it, and there's a suspicious tile that could have horses or iron. It should be a pretty nice city long-term.

I'm not sure what happened to the archers in this barb city. A few turns prior to this there were 4 and then suddenly just 1. I pulled the axe garrisoned in Coimbra and took the city with 1 loss.

I traded away my copper for stone and got something like 160 fail gold before it was completed. I then traded something (i think it was Currency) to Mansa for 280 gold on the next turn. I have mixed feelings about speeding Mansa up even more, but other people already had the tech, it was wayyy too much gold to turn down, and my general feeling with Mansa is that you usually just have to make the trades when you can because trade opportunities can disappear very quickly when he's in the game.

I attempted to snipe Cherokee with a couple of axes, but there was no such luck.

T100 i switch into HR + Bureau and build an Academy.

And this is the current tech situation where i find myself at a tech disadvantage despite T100 CS.

Lisbon which i want to grow out onto 4 more cottages. The galley is to explore the sheep island i see to the SE and possibly send a settler down there.

Overall, I'm not entirely sure where to go from here. I recently saw that the map script is Terra and i have almost no experience playing this type of map. I'm not sure how one would effectively settle the new continent without State Property so my inclination is to let the AI settle the new world while i conquer the old one.

I don't have horses, but i do have iron and a lot of beaker potential so right now I'm leaning towards Cannons. Medieval war seems unnecessary here when i have 8 cities, good BPT, and a safe diplo situation. The tech pace on this map is also very fast so i think i need a unit with a long window and Cannons are definitely that. The only argument i can think of for an earlier war would be to knock Mansa down a peg, but I don't believe I'm even set up for one in terms of infrastructure.

I also need to do some more exploring. I have two WBs out now, but i sent the first one west and it ran into the great wall of Tokugawa until i recently got him to pleased for OB. The eastern WB came a good bit later and there still should be 1 more AI over there somewhere that i haven't met.

 

[krikav]

I always upload them here. I think that is really easy and convinient, the only drawback is the 10 files/post limit.