Nobles' Club CXII: Ragnar of the Vikings

[Imploding]

@Gasp

Overall comment about map: The land around the Capitol.. makes settling cities to maximize utilization of your good cap tiles hard. Would try to aim to have.. a 4-5 good cities and try to meet the world quick. Scouting is really important in these situations.. Because it your strategy depends so rgeatly on who your up against.. and what their situation is.

Question 1: I would have had 2nd city on the thundra forest 4 East of your cap.
Question 2: Hence answer 1.
Orange city: I would scrap it.. that would not make to much good for you.
White city with rice.. 1 NE. To pick up a freshwater lake.. thats a 3f3c tile with finacial and a lighthouse.
White Iceland city.. a good city.. settling on PH hill is also good for the extra hammer.. would try to make this my 3rd city.
Yellow and green city.. i would join them together.. and have 1 spot. Plains w/o forest between sheep and marble seems ok.
Blue city.. scrap gives you nothing.
Whit fish city.. to the East.. a good spot..

Spoiler My attempt at Immortal :

I like ragnar.. so i had a go on Immortal.. and found out that settling on wine might be a good play in this situation.. Ofc.. my cap will be crap in the long run.. but makes much better 2 city.. saves a forest (which is great for the GLH) I also planning on som amphibious warfare against Charli with berserkers The iceland is also really happiness starved.. and i genurally don't like to build massive cities that get happiness from HR and stationary warriors etc.

So my plan is to set up a good 8-9 city empire and get some troops ready! Under you can se my contempirarly dotmap..

 

[Gasp]

Thanks sampsa and Imploding !

@sampsa : I realize AH was a mistake just because I really need BW now and it's 4 turns away... I think I'll restart this game anyway.
My problem as you pointed out is this poooooor land, especially next to the capitol.
I get what you say about not planning cities before events tell you where to go, I usually do it for the next 2-3 cities but I thought since I'm posting about city location, maybe this could work.
I also thought about a 2nd city 1E of the corn but it'll be really crap tundra everywhere and doesn't allow me to share ressources, this is why I wanted advice.
Well I need to get the GLH here or it's going to be hard, then I'll have to work water tiles.
GLH is also perfect for the map and will make the southern island city a very good one

@Imploding
I appreciate you gave it a try I'm bad with city placement and now that you settled on the wine I see it as a good idea, especially since your second city has a better location.

I'll restart it to make a better start and also because I think this game will be fun. My only concern is the lack of a good production city... I guess the whip should help
i also hope our Babylonian friends aren't going to be wiped out by barbarians this time haha

 

[sampsa]

I played how I preached, check for details. It's immortal, start looks too tough for me to try deity.

T53

Spoiler :

Agri-min-BW-sailing-masonry, going AH-writing. Uppsala has one good tile, so it's a decent idea to whip 2->1. Got a wb out, 2nd worker done next turn. Managed to get my scout killed (losing your starting unit is always really dumb) and now I have no spawn busting whatsoever. Getting barracks+warriors up soon in Uppsala and should be fine though. On deity I would have gotten crushed by barbs long time ago.

ETA on GLH+writing ~T69, after which the game is unfortunately in the bag. Immortal AI gets completely blown away in tech under the power of GLH and intercontinental trade routes. Scouting workboat has located good city spots. Our island is crap, so must find better land elsewhere. Not sure if I'll settle another city on main island before ADs.

 

[Gasp]

Again thank you I restarted my game but I went with Imploding city locations. At least with 5 cities, my 5th being the one next to the Horse.
Got the GLH by turn 80 I think.
Then my strategy is also to settle next to Charlemagne (i already have a city on his continent, grabbing horses (which makes me think my 5th city was not necessary in our island). I also have a settler ready to get on board and settle on a small island (the one linking ours with Charlemagnes).

One question though. With the GLH is it a good strategy to settle on many small (1 to 3 tiles) islands assuming they have ressources ?

Well I'd like to share your opinion about AIs tech rate on IMM but I'll just try to win this one on Monarch with as few mistakes as possible.

 

[Imploding]

@sampsa You bring up a good point about skipping AH.. I also did that. And i actually think its such a big time saver that it can make or break the TGL.

AH tech.. what does that really give you? 2 extra food and 2 extra commerce on 1 tile? Is that worth your really valuable early commerce. Also a small chance for horses but horses require the wheel.. and the likelyhood for horses is small.. i guess there was 1-2 tiles around the capitol with a chance to pop something.

The Agri - mining - BW gives so much more production.. with wips and chops.. which means faster everything.. WB.. settler..sailing and Lighthouse etc.

IMO skipping the wheel for sailing is also a big time saver on this map. Sailing gives TR. Thats 2 big techs to skip in the early game for a faster TGL.

Spoiler My progress t 133 :

Btw i got TGL @ 1680 BC.. thats t 58(?).. I really pushed for it tho.. since I noticed from watching the diplo on t 1-3 that every single AI had a potential coastal start.. you can tell that by looking at the land score.. 1000 = 1 land tile.. so 9000 = 9 land tiles. 5 = 5 land tiles etc. There was also 3 (I think) Ai's that started with mining. They get a extra 2000 military score.

Other than that.. TGL is going to win this game.. but its still going to be a fun game slowly going for a Astro bulb.. with the fast circumnavigation bonus + the vikings +1 movement from their lighthouse.. It can be a really fun naval thing here.. with berserkers and super fast boats going around killing everything Thinking berserkers + treb/later cannons

Also really glad I got a religion from Isabelle. Org religion is so good for devolving your cities. she got Theology as well so a big chance that she is going for the AP

@Gasp: I settle a couple island cities.. just to grab the max +2 commers traderoutse with my own cities until I have TR with every AI.. I aim to have 1 fast iseland city maybe the 3.. or 4 city.. but I'm not pushing it.. the bonus is not that huge.. quality cities is much better than a marginal island city..

 

[sampsa]

One question though. With the GLH is it a good strategy to settle on many small (1 to 3 tiles) islands assuming they have ressources ?

Yes. Start from the best ones (food on 1st ring). I wouldn't settle the tiny island between you and HRE as there is no food. These island cities will be immediately -positive, which is the idea of GLH. You can afford to try to get a lot of cities asap, be it via peaceful settling or war. Pretty sure for example a construction war will be a breeze on monarch.

@Imploding

Spoiler :

Yeah I didn't bother to check demographics early on. I'm getting T67 GLH (1320BC), which is like +95% certain on immortal. Well, even stonehenge isn't gone yet, so make it 100% this time. I agree that losing this key wonder would hurt a lot, so I would prefer to get it a bit earlier.

 

[Izuul]

That land stinks. GLH map if I've ever seen one.

 

[Imploding]

The immortal vikings are going at it!
Late.. but Isabelle just got feudalism... so this attack is going to be so sweet.. taking out her cap and maybe one of her cities on the first turn of war.. can easily reinforce the following turns!
Hopefully a good day for a fight!

Spoiler Amphibious warfare :

The war start!

With 6 movement galleys.. thing really went fast.. this is 6 turns later! Captured her capitol.. her new capitol.. then her new capitol..

She capitulated when Toledo fell.. Gave it back.. but planing to keep the rest! Just for cultural defence.. + Madrid is a really nice city. Have budist shrine.. and 3 food. Preparing another naval invasion vs Charlie now

Attacked pacal II next t 185.. he didn't have engineering.. so no castle. He fell really really fast.. in 2 turns in fact. He also had the mids.. Parthenon and a couple of other cool wonders. thats why i went for the kill.. and not a cap.

Kicked of a Golden age.. with the music artist.. and got police stat theocracy.. and will create some really scary units! Now I'm starting to add a nice fleet of 6 movement frigates.. to bombard cities and dominate the waters.. Planning for Charlie next.. he has enigineering (thats why i went for pacal over him.. earlier..) but with some nice bombardment.. I think it should be fairly easy.

 

[Imploding]

Conquest victory @ 1560 AD turn 226

Well promoted Berserker's and 6 movement galleys sure was fun!

Spoiler Summary from t 188 to t 226 :

Capped Charlie fast.. Then hammurabi.. Justin was a bit more of a struggle.. then I saved Toko for last.

As mentioned earlier.. getting TGL was the absolute key thing here. Would definitely streamline everything to pick up that wonder as fast as possible.
With a ok start.. to grab the TGL.. and a semi ok island for production and great people generation.. I guess.. this strategy would be viable on deity ( for me)! The super fast naval force and.. surprise dow's and easily taking multiple cities on the first turn of war really damages the Ai

If I was to do this type of map again.. i guess i might skip the music route.. I saved a Golden age artist for maybe 100 turns.. a golden age never made sense..

And rather teched faster for Civil service for the all important and super fun berserkers/galley combo

Then go for a offensive vs the mids guy.. This kind of map-script lacks production. So picking up police state early is super advantageus.. and work decent workshops kind of make up for it.. And that is a less micro oriented way of producing.. a bit tiring to search and remember to 2 pop whip everywhere with 15 cities..

In conclusion.. would do it again! Great find Gasp!

A couple days later...
I actually did it again on different map. Just a random archi map to display the funnest strategy I have tested in a long while

 

[Gasp]

Hehe well done Imploding !
I'm going to play it today. We will see how far I go.

Spoiler my game so far :

It is 560 AD, T 138 and I haven't met Izzy yet. I converted to Hindu as Charlemagne and Pascal so I guess Izzy is going to be my 1st victim.

 

[Gasp]

Finally a victory in 1976.... Diplomatic victory after I vassaled everyone but my 2 former Hindu friends.
It took me really long to end this game as I really had trouble during the war against our Spanish friends... I never had such bad luck. I lost about 15 units during the attack of her 2nd city with over 70 % chance of winning... This made me mad and forced me to cease fire while reinforcement arrives.

 

[Imploding]

@Gasp good job! Yeah.. that always sucks.. I sometimes struggle with the same thing and It can really delay everything if not done correctly.. but here is a small tip.

That is to avoid fighting in the Ai's stronghold. Attack where they are weak.. if they have 5-7 units in a city "forward" city.. there is a good chance they have only 2-3 in a city a little further ahead. So just use your super mobile naval force and sip past her strongholds.. and go for the weak sweet spots. 9 out of 10 times you benefit more from just capitulating her fast and give back all of her cities.

 

[Fish Man]

Emperor Ragnar of House Targaryen decides to conquer the great seafaring empires of this world on deity and unite all peoples under one banner - with fire and horse (that's cuirs => cavs, if you didn't get the memo).

Spoiler :

T239 conquest victory - I was fortunate to get the entire astro line in trades, including astro itself. After that...well, what can I say, 6-move galleons rock.

Started with Charlie who put up a good fight, but schnekts and castles didn't really do him any good in the end against cuirs. After upgrading to cavs, went on to Pacal who capped after discovering that teching physics and going on to electricity before gunpowder might not have been the best idea. Izzy was a tough nut but had to be the next target; with 17 cities and a stone's throw from infantry she was running away quickly, and going to need tanks and bombers to handle if I didn't deal with her quick. Fortunately with speedy frigate support my veteran cavs made quick work of grens, and I capped her just as she reached machine guns, which would've been almost impossible to deal with - the most hectic race to win a war I've experienced thus far. After I broke Izzy, this game was all but won.

Justy was just getting rifles as I was cleaning up so I left him for later. Meanwhile, after recovering my economy with communism, I started towards artillery, the perfect counter against enemy rifles and cavs. In the meantime I cleaned up backwards Japan who didn't so much as even have gunpowder yet, with 0 casualties. Armed with the newest siege units that I had hastily whipped my cities to the ground to assemble, I made war on Justy, who stupidly decided to go railroad -> combustion next (thank God for no AL, AI was too stupid to see the usefulness of infantry). All his units, upgraded to rifles, were unable to become machine guns. And combustion didn't matter because I took his only oil very early on. So, after a moderately slow slog and some intense artillery bombardment, I capped him (and faced ONE machine gun, the strongest unit I'd had to encounter in this game).

Hammy, who was still refusing to talk because of an AP resolution a hundred turns ago, was last. He decided to go railroad -> combustion as well, for some reason...not that he ever reached the latter. Now that I had an army of 50 units, and backed by a crapton of guided missiles, Hammy with his muskets and longbows stood no chance. His 2 largest cities fell on the second turn of the war and, supported by carpetbombing with missiles, my cavs attacked his coastal cities amphibiously and easily took them. He capped on turn 5 of the war. And thus, Ragnar decisively won the game of thrones of NC CXII, crushing his enemies underfoot in brutal and focused coastal raids with overwhelming technology, numbers, and speed .

The full extent of my army:

 

[Amao]

Shouldn't all those go to spoiler, @Undefeatable ? OK, saving the dragon emperor thingy.

 

[Fish Man]

Shouldn't all those go to spoiler, @Undefeatable ? OK, saving the dragon emperor thingy.

Apologies...forgot about that. Will do ASAP.

In the meantime @krikav - interested in giving this one a shot?

 

[krikav]

This is the map where I saw Burn make a diety space win w/o wars and with crappy land.
I'm pretty sure I played this map at imm difficulty. Possibly even this summer?
Can't remember how it went.

Still busy with LHC82 which isn't working out as I planned.

Galleys with berserkers is fun though, tried that out in an other ragnar map by elitetroops (also made with planet generator! Seems to be very good maps!)

 

[Fish Man]

This is the map where I saw Burn make a diety space win w/o wars and with crappy land.
I'm pretty sure I played this map at imm difficulty. Possibly even this summer?
Can't remember how it went.

Still busy with LHC82 which isn't working out as I planned.

Galleys with berserkers is fun though, tried that out in an other ragnar map by elitetroops (also made with planet generator! Seems to be very good maps!)

Unfortunately the casualty rate is too high for something like that. Also everyone got crossbows like 100-200AD because this is deity, and castles soon after - virtually impregnable even for CR 8-strength melee units attacking from land. And I needed time to get forges up for efficient whips. Zerkers are fun but only really consistently useful below deity...here it was cuirs or perish.

Cannons seem nice but the island was so crappy I didn't nearly have enough commerce to get there in time. Also, as you saw - speed was paramount. I could've taken Charlie and Pacal with them but in that time monster 17-city Izzy would've gotten infantry and artillery.

 

[Fish Man]

@sampsa wanna give this a shot on deity this time? Due to unforeseen life events (aka real bad crap happening) the NC is delayed a bit. This map is, as you said, quite hard but I think you’re real good, your starts are better than mine for sure, so I’m of the opinion you’re up for it if you so choose.

 

[sampsa]

@Undefeatable thanks. Can't play right now, maybe in a few weeks... There is no way I'm able to stop playing this game, right?

 

[krikav]

Play the Boudica game and show me how it's done too!
It's ok to do a suicide squad of cuirs (or cav) near the end if things turn out nasty.