Nobles' Club L: Augustus Caesar of Rome

[Y Draig]

Noble/Epic, currently at 950AD

Spoiler :

I have pushed the Ethiopians off the continent and I am currently ferrying troops across to their islands to finish the job. Shipping the units across is quite easy after where Zara parked his only naval unit after I attacked Gondar.



While that is progressing I have built and positioned 3 more armies close to the border with Inca's + the veteran army in Zara's former territory. This is in anticipation of the war with the Inca's which will come next. Towards this end I have pushed the majority of my espionage points at the Inca's which revealed that their cities are minimally defended. This will most definitely change when I declare war and the AI starts whipping defenders but I think I have enough seige to cope with bringing them down to size.



The gem of the empire is Cumae which is building plenty of wonders. The fact I'm not a high level player is clearly evident in the way that I've built the Temple of Artemis in a land locked city when I have the GLH in Rome ( To be honest I didn't realise it only provided a boost to the city it was built in, another thing learnt in my first nobles club game!!)



Power wise I'm well ahead but the tech situation is dire. I'm planning on cottaging the jungles I hope to acquire from the Inca's and catching up that way. Any observations, tips or guidance is most welcome

 

[Gamma]

Prince, Epic, up to 640 AD

Spoiler :

I settled in place, then founded Antium NE to eventually be a gp farm, then two more cities to the south near the iron and southeast near the stone to be production cities. I probably went for too many wonders and I still don't have my land very well improved. I built up a bunch of praets and attempted a very late praet rush of Pacal. Took out two cities, then he had feudalism, so I made peace. Currently my economy isn't doing very well, but I hope to improve that soon. I'm slowly preparing to finish off Pacal as well, but I think he has an island city somewhere.

Here's my empire in 640: (I renamed Pacal's cities with Roman names)

 

[drlake]

@Y Draig

Spoiler :

Cumae is experiencing unhappiness right now. I'm not sure what civics you are running, but you may be better off either sticking another troop there (if you are running HR) or building a Forge (which will provide happiness and increase production). Getting Cumae back under the happy cap will allow you to start using that mined hill that is currently not in use.

In what sense is the tech situation dire? Post the tech screen from the foreign adviser with your updates to show what is really going on there.

Why are you building a Spearman in Lalibela? Why so many Longbowmen in production? You're probably better off by pumping out defensive troops like that from a single source, while the other cities build either offensive military units, wealth, or infrastructure.

Overall, you look like you're in pretty good shape to me.

 

[duckstab]

Noble/Epic, to 1230AD, BUG 4.4

View attachment Duckstabus Caesar AD-1230.CivBeyondSwordSave

Spoiler :

War against HC is in progress. He'd made peace with WvO about 10 turns back.
I took Ollantaytambo but next turn lost it to a good size stack he'd sent from Cuzco. I'd somewhat carelessly sent my main force around the city instead of through it. But it actually worked out well because all my siege was still in place and I was able to not only retake it but massacre his stack as well. On the same turn, I took Coryhuayrachina. The two Inca axemen fiercely guarding the banana fort in what is now just within my northern border are a little worrisome. Worst case, if he sends them south to attack Cumae I can upgrade the garrison.

I lost the Liberalism race to WvO, or, more accurately, he got it before I was even trying for it. Not surprising, since he's been 2-3 techs ahead of me most of the game. I did, however, grab Optics first and have two Caravels heading in opposite directions for the cirumnavigation bonus, probably in another 2-3 turns. I've now met all but one of the other AIs: SB (who's already tried begging for tech), Toku, and Hammy, the latter two being at war with each other.

I popped a Great Prophet who build the Hindu shrine for me, and a GE who rushbuilt the Sistine Chapel. I'm now working on U.Sankore in Rome.

Plan is to get HC to capitulate or take him out if not. He took one of WvO's cities in their earlier war, so if I manage to liberate that I could maybe get Willy to pleased. Depending on how that goes, I'll either plan on attacking WvO or hunkering down for a bit until I have Astronomy and can expand overseas.

 

[drlake]

Monarch/Epic, Domination Victory in 1848. 4 more turns and I would have had the diplomatic victory anyway, since I had about 80% of the vote in the UN.

 

[4077 Mash]

OK, this is my first post on the forum, I have been lurking for quite awhile. I was waiting for the next NC entry, and here it is. I hope I get the screen shot posting right.
Noble/Epic

Spoiler :

SIP looks good to me. Research started with Agr>AH. Build order was Worker>Warrior>Warrior>Settler>Worker>Workboat>Library.
Doing some exploring, I see alot of jungle to the north and stone to the east. Since I am Industrious, I decide to settle my second city (Antitum) 1W of the stone and use it to speed up SH, which I got in 2200 BC. So this means my next research path is Myst>Masonry>Wheel>Writing>BW>Iron Working. At some point I got sailing from a hut.
I ran into HC, WvO, Pacal and Zara. Pacal is pretty close to my second city, if AH had revealed horses, I might even chariot rush, but there are no horses. So I will hope for iron and wait for Praetorians.

I start chopping around Rome to finish the library and get the next worker and settler, which I use to settle Cumae 1W of the rice. That will eventually give me Rice, Fish and deer, which makes it a decent Great Person Farm. It will also grow into iron. I'm going to go for the Oracle slingshot to MC, so I go Poly>Priesthood>Pottery. I build Oracle in Antitum, which I finish in 1400BC and get MC. Shortly after I get alphabet. Now I start on Praetorians. I also plan a city to the NW of Rome to get the Copper and the Gems. I just got a Great Scientist in Rome, which I will use to build an Academy there. Here is 1100.

Spoiler :

At some point, I did open borders with Pacal, which allowed me to explore his territory, but also allowed him to build some missionaries to spread Judiasm to my cities. Nice of him to do that since I plan to capture the founding city, and it means he's not "wasting" those hammers on defensive units. Also I can see he has no copper, has not yet gotten iron working, and his cities are not on hills. I have 6 Pretorians by 650BC, and I declare war. I capture Mutal, and raze his second city which I think is in an awful spot. Pacal is gone in 525BC.

Shortly after, I get code of laws and then construction. I've back traded for some of the earlier techs. No reason to lose momentum. I'm going to go after HC, since he's the next closest. Same basic plan, which is capture capital (which is founding city of Hinduism, and has Temple of Artemis) and raze the other cities (he has 4 total). I declare war in 350 BC. I finish him off in 50BC. Shortly after, I discover Civil Service and switch to Beauracry. During this time, Cumae builds the Great Lighthouse and then gets going on the Colossus. Got a Great Prophet in Antitum, and built Temple of Solomon in 95BC. Here is a 10 AD screenshot.

Spoiler :

I have opened up alot of land for settling between, but that is true for Zara and Willem, as well. Willem is further away, so I am going to go after Zara. My goal is just to weaken him, so at 85AD, I declare war, and quickly wipe out a city. We're pretty much at war until 415AD, as I apply pressure. I was able to trade for Feudalism, so in 415, I capture and raze his capital, and Zara capitulates. I continue with my expansion, and Willem does not seem to be much a threat. During this time, I teched HR>Meditation>Philosophy>Aethsetics>Literature (began the Great Lib in Rome) Paper and then used a GS to propel me to Education.

After Zara capitulates, I go Gunpowder>Theology>Compass>Machinery>Optics. I start on AP in Cumae, and build some Caravals in which I put Jewish Missionaries. I'm thinking maybe I can spread enough to get an AP win. I send out the Caravals, and have met Sitting Bull and Toku. I am able to spread to SB, but Toko won't sign Open Borders. That will slow down any AP win, but at least no one else will get there. I tech Engineering and finally Chemistry. I build/whip libraries and universities and have started on Oxford in Rome. I used a second GP to build the Dai Maio in Arreburitum. I am also building Notre Dame in Cuzco. No sense in letting Industrialism go to waste. It's 960AD, and I am 7 turns away from going Liberalism to Steel. I don't expect it to take long for Willem to capitulate and let me start focusing my energy elsewhere. Here are my 960 AD screenshots.

I will post the rest later, but some notes:

Spoiler :

I am not really usually this good. I really only win about 1/3 of my games on Noble. But Rome either plays to my strengths or hides my weaknesses. Of course, from what I read on the boards, that should not be much of a suprise.

 

[pzschrek]

@Mash

Spoiler :

Great game. Agreed on your last...I think praets + IND gives one a real leg up! Plus I felt like the map really went the player's way in this one. Easiest win I've had in awhile.

How come you raze all those cities? Keep maintenance down?

 

[4077 Mash]

@pzschrek

Spoiler :

A few reasons:
1. Maintenance is a factor.
2. I did not want to slow my momentum by using troops to defend captured cities.
3. In many cases, I thought the city placement by the AI could be improved.

A reason that I learned in this game was not valid:
I had also thought that if I built a city myself it would not have the issue of citizens wanting to rejoin their motherland. Perhaps it used to be that way in Vanilla or some patch? But I noticed the issue in the city I built on what used to be Zara's land, so I guess that is not a good reason to do it.

 

[drlake]

@4077

Welcome!

In my experience, it seems like cities that are both neighboring another civ and are closer to its capital will ask if they can join it. It doesn't matter if the city is 100% your culture, which seems crazy to me.

 

[Arumath]

Finally decided to do one of these and made this my first noble game. I stopped just after 1000 BC to get some feed back on what i'd been doing so far. I managed to keep my builderities in check and have a small army poied to strike.

I've only recently begun to understand the vallue of whpping and chopping so I haven't whipped a whole lot.


Anyway here's the save.

 

[CivilizedTiger]

@Arumath
The problems with offering only savegame files are that many people play different mods for the game, so opening up other people's save files isn't always possible, and that humans are rather impatient.

Please try to offer some screenshots of your land, some stories about what you've researched and in what order, some stories about your builds, and you'll surely get advice more easily. (Besides, reading about your steps takes less time than opening your savegame file, and even if we do that, there are certain things we can't know, because we're limited to the game log)

 

[4077 Mash]

OK, the rest of my game:

Spoiler :

I am first to circumnavigate in 1010 AD. I trade some techs for Sitting Bull's world map (Meditation and Aethsetics) shortly after that. That's the first time I've ever traded techs for a world map. Probably could have circumnavigated earlier if I had tried it when I first met SB. I can see that the Babylonians and Bzyantines are around as well, and send the Caravals to meet them. I get Liberalism to Steel in 1030, and start making some cannons. In 1120, I declare on Willem. Persia is created as Babylonian colony in 1315. I send over a Jewish missionary, although I still can't get through to Toko. I built the Taj in 1325, and actually hope that switching to free religion for awhile will help me get open borders with Toko, but that does not help. I switch back, and all of a sudden, Judiasm spreads to one of his cities. I get Willem completely off the continent and down to two island cities in 1350. He Capitulates.

So despite having spread the AP religion to every other civ, and know for sure that 2 other civs will vote for me as my vassals, I never get an AP diplomatic option. (I learned later that I can't make up 75% of the vote.) In 1365, I finally discover Astronomy (I already have Rifiling and Railroad), and start building Galleons for my expected invasion of somewhere on the other continent. In 1415, Toko declares on Sitting Bull. In 1450, SB asks me to join, which I do. I land a reasonable size force, and raze Kyoto, and in 1495, Toko capitulates.

At this point, I give up on AP, head towards Mass Media and build the UN in 1615. I have 3 vassals, and have pleased status with Hammurabi and Sitting Bull. I win secretary general easily, and I expect to win a Diplomatic Victory, because the Civ with the second best score is Justinian, and he is not popular. However, for some reason the other candidate (other than me) ends up being Sitting Bull, even though his score is the lowest.

So, since I still have a large military force in Japan, I attack the Native Americans. I raze a couple of cities, and when the next vote comes up, Justinian is the second candidate, and I win the Diplomatic Victory in 1702 AD.

Images (I hope):

Spoiler :

Comments and questions:

Spoiler :

Again, this looks like I should be playing at a more difficult level, but I was able to avoid a number of my weaknesses. Preatorians allowed me to attack early and often. I never had to fight a defensive war. Espionage was a non-issue. I really never had to switch civics, although I did go with free religion and state property at the end. Ran Slavery and HR pretty much the whole game, though. I probably could have won a little earlier if I would have bee-lined to Mass media instead of trying for an AP victory.

Things I learned this game:

1. As I mentioned in a previous post, if you settle a city in area which used to belong to someone else, you can still end up with unhappiness due to citizens wishing to rejoin their homeland. I had thought that would only happen with captured cities.

2. You can't be *too* dominate with a religion to win an AP victory. I might have tried spreading my religion a little more into my vassals and friends.

3. If you build the UN and are ahead in score, the second candidate is not always the other Civ with the second best score. Is it based on population, or some other factor(s)? Is there an article somewhere on how candidates are chosen?

4. I am thinking I should go back and try some other NC games. Anybody have any recommendations? Should I just work my way backwards from 49?

 

[CivilizedTiger]

@Mash

Spoiler :

1. Maps are rather cheap - 100-200 gold, at most. Never give techs up. Also, after winning circumnavigation, sell your maps every now and then for gold. And last thing - you surely have alphabet at that point of the game, so you can know what the AI has in the tech department. If you don't see optics or higher among their techs, on any map which can't be discovered completely by galleys, you can feel safe that you won't lose th circumnavigation race. (unless you give your map to someone on the other continent)
2. the two candidates for UN secretary general are the leader who has the UN and the leader who has the highest population from the remaining players. I think the two candidates for a UN victory are the secretary general and the player with the highest population from the remaining players.

 

[Y Draig]

Noble / Epic - domination victory 1776AD

Spoiler :

Launched a 3 way war against Ethiopia, Inca & The Netherlands to gain control of the continent and then chased through the islands they had settled to wipe them out. Once this was done all my major production cities were committed to building seige units and praetorians whilst astronomy, rifling and steel were researched. Upon completion of steel several turns at zero research allowed me to build enough galleons and frigates whilst upgrading my highly promoted armies to rifles and cannons. After 8 turns crossing the oceans I launched my attack against Tokugawa, with 5 of his 9 cities falling within the first turn of the war. The next turn the Babylonians took a further Japanese city and Tokugawa capped to Hammurabi. Undetered I declared war against both and pushed ahead wiping out Tokugawa and reducing Hammurabi to two island cities. After this it was a case of rush buying Theatres in the conquered cities to pop the borders and hit the domination target. Closing screen shots are posted below:

Victory!!


Score


Power




This game was a lot of fun. I've never played a game which everything fell into place so well at the end. At lot of gambles I took (3 way wars etc) wouldn't have paid off if not for the power of the UU. Once I had control of the home continent I was able to tech away from the AI, I think I only came across one musketeer the AI had built and everything else my armies faced were antiquated. This is quite easily the best game I've played, thanks to all who provided advice to help me.

 

[kalidude]

OK, difficult final over. Time get get back to Civ stuff.

So I realized in the 1850s that I had been running the game on noble instead of Monarch, because when I started a custom game I forgot to change the difficulty. LOL so apparently I am a newb. Anyways now that I know the map it probably wouldn't be as fun to try again at Monarch. I enjoy a variety in my games and will probably eventually enable huts & events in my normal play. It is nice knowing that nobody is getting a crazy early tech advantage from a few huts though. Of course someone could still get a huge early land advantage. And then there's the super-epic game ender events.

Anyways I'll try and get in on the next one and really play Monarch that time.

 

[vranasm]

Monarch/normal to 1735AD. Would love some advice how to finish the game, it's somewhat my first monarch game played to so high AD's that i am thinking about actually trying to finish it.

Spoiler :

Basically I rushed Pacal then Incas 3 times (last time it was now with cavalry) finally capping him. The problem is I wanted as primary target rush Dutches because it seemed like they were not on par with numbers and didnt have riflemen, but I clearly missed the timeframe, missed it for those 5 turns spent on Incas :-(.
I would love to get some war between Ethiopian and Dutches, but last time the Ethiops wanted my 3 top techs and now I dont have enough in my hands to bribe them. Those 2 are top tech contenders so war between them would be godly for me :-(.

I am a bit falling behind in techs so it seems like I have to switch to peacefull explosion, but I would love some opinions on techs direction.

Domination seems like undoable target for me now, so it's most probably Space victory, because diplomatically I am not good on.
View attachment 254388View attachment 254389View attachment 254390View attachment 254391View attachment 254392View attachment 254393View attachment 254394View attachment 254395

 

[drlake]

@vranasm

Spoiler :

You aren't in as bad a shape as you think, with regard to pursuing Domination. To make that work, though, you need to get cracking and eliminate Zara and Willem. Right now you have a military tech advantage over both of them, and neither of them are prone to building large standing militaries.

First, trade with HC to get Monotheism and Constitution from him. Give him techs that have no trade value, like Chemistry (keep Military Tradition and Rifling to yourself, for now).

Second, shift your military toward Willem (the easier target, plus Zara is Friendly) and keep pumping out the troops. You'll need a lot of siege to do this quickly; I'm guessing you didn't have enough and that caused the delays taking HC. Something like 12-15 Cannons and a similar number of combined Rifles and Cavalry should be enough to start the war, as long as you have more in the pipeline. Figure out where Willem's SoD is, assuming he has one (he may not have much of one). If he has one, set up your main army in the vicinity and DoW on him. He'll probably come out after you, allowing you to kill it in the open. Use Cannons with Barrage promotions if you need to weaken it, but you shouldn't have to do much since you've got that tech edge. If you have enough EPs built up, use Spies to put his cities in revolt to eliminate their cultural defenses when you're ready to attack them. Put your EPs 100% on Willem for the moment, anyway.

Third, once Willem is gone take out Zara. The same strategy should work fine on him.

You're going to want to get Democracy soon, since not having access to Emancipation once someone else does sucks. I'd probably finish Combustion, do Assembly Line (for Infantry), and then Democracy.

 

[vranasm]

@drlake

Spoiler :

Hm hm I have there 2 unit pumps (in 1 of them i really should build HE though :-D) + give some production in all so I think i could amass it relatively quick.

You're right I am always lazy to prepare army for whole enemy, usually leading to getting 2-3 cities and then getting out of steam.

To the Dutches, you probably did miss the thing that he got rifling, maybe it wasnt obvious, so sorry I should have specified. So I have only cavalry on my side, rifling dutches have and I am affraid Zara will have it soon too. I think they dont have that big army though, because they went with building cities a lot lately in distant lands ( I think probably some Islands).

To the Emancipation, i wanted to hold caste system as long as I can, have 2 cities dedicated to specialists, but I am affraid too low on production so without infrastructure for "natural" specs. Constitution i didnt tech because of pyramids.

Well nice to know that i didnt miss badly and I almost thought that the next target should be dutches and soon! i will adjust accordingely.

 

[duckstab]

Noble/Epic to 1695AD, BUG 4.4

View attachment Duckstabus Caesar AD-1695.CivBeyondSwordSave

Spoiler :

I vassalized HC and shortly thereafter Zara offered himself as a vassal. He also kindly built the AP, which I've held since.

I could perhaps go for a cheesy AP win but that has been complicated by a couple factors. Hammy and Toku were at war for ages and neither would OB with me. So I've been unable to spread Buddhism to them. Finally Ham emerged victorious and vassalized Toku. He was willing to OB with me at some point but that wouldn't have helped much because Toku was still under his protection. To add insult to injury, Ham liberated several cities and Cyrus entered the game. So there are now four civs without Buddhism, including SB.

In the meantime, however, I built up a massive invasion force. World war is now underway. I will either force Buddhism on Ham, Toku, and Cyrus at swordpoint, send a missionary to SB, and win via the AP, or get a domination win along the way.

 

[duckstab]

Noble/Epic, 1818AD, Diplomatic Victory via AP, BUG 4.4

View attachment Duckstabus Caesar AD-1818.CivBeyondSwordSave

Spoiler :

I took 5 of Ham's cities, including Babylon itself. Midway through the war Toku was strong enough to break free from him. I decided to make a separate peace with him since Japan had enough of a military to be a minor nuisance. I figured I'd deal with him later.

Hammurabi and Cyrus both capitulated so I now had four vassals. I wouldn't get any AP votes from Zara, of course, because he had built it. But I went ahead and sent a missionary to SB and one to Hammurabi. Buddhism spread to Cyrus' capital incidentally.
The problem was, how to introduce it to Toku since he was still furious with me. It didn't help matters when he voluntarily vassalized himself to SB. To further complicate things, SB spawned off America as a colony. Washington started out annoyed with me but was fortunately willing to OB, so I sent him a missionary as soon as I could.

I spread Buddhism to all my cities and bribed Ham and Cy to convert as well. I would have converted HC if necessary but he had been Jewish until adopting FR. I was in Theocracy. If I got him to switch to Theo I'd suffer an immediate diplo hit from that which I thought might make it all the harder to get him to convert. So I'd probably have to switch back to OR myself. Seemed like too much of a pain.

My ace in the hole was the city of Nara, which had been taken over by Hammurabi in their earlier war and was the first city I took on that continent. It still had enough Japanese culture for Toku to want it back. So a couple turns before the vote was to come up I gifted it back to the ungrateful little bastard. Got him all the way up to annoyed

Even with all my careful vote-counting, I thought I'd missed it. Fortunately, some population growth somewhere helped me nail it: 717 votes out of a required 717. Did I say AP wins were easy?