Nobles' Club LXVI: Darius of Persia

[dalamb]

The Nobles' Club series started out as a way for Noble-level (and below) players to improve their game. Most of the original participants now play at much higher levels, so this has become a way for advanced players to help others learn to play better. You can play your own game at any level and with any mod, but it would be nice to comment on the games of other players and give them advice.

Our next leader is Darius of the Persians, whom we last played in NC XLIV. The Persians start with Agriculture and Hunting.

• Traits: Darius is FINancial and ORGanized, a combination that makes it easier to have a large empire early. FIN generates more money (+1 on a tile with 2 already), and ORG reduces maintenance costs.
• The UB: The Apothecary, a Grocer that gives +25%. I find I don't build that many grocers in many games, but with a FIN leader this becomes very attractive.
  
  
  
  
• The UU: The Immortal - a Chariot that gets defensive bonuses (unlike most mounted units) and +50% versus archers. This makes them a very strong unit for early warfare.
  
  

And the start:

Spoiler map details :

Maze, default parameters: a maze-like rectangular land mass, 3 tiles wide. This is a weird map type, but we planned on using the various different scripts this time around, and someone suggested this one.

Spoiler edits :

Regenerated until we got seafood, which seemed essential to me on this sort of map. Verified there were horses not too far away. Turned a BFC mountain into a hill.

Finally, a cut and paste of our standard doctrine:

There are no hard and fast rules here: fun and learning are our primary goals, but we do request that you update your progress at various points in the game, using the Spoiler feature of the boards.

Tentative posting updates are suggested at:

4000 BC (starting thoughts, no spoiler required for that discussion)
1000 BC or so (how you decided to progress up the early tech/build paths, which AIs you have met, where you're thinking of putting cities, etc)
500 AD or so (after establishing some cities and a possible plan of action)
1200 AD or so (mid-game, Lib race, wars or peace, or whichever happened or didn't, met other continent if applicable, etc)
1600 AD (or when you have decided on a course of action and a specific victory condition)
End of game (Victory!!! or defeat, no shame in losing, especially if you tried a higher level. Learning is what we focus on, not fastest win or biggest empire)

Remember, these are only guidelines. What we really want are your thoughts as the game goes on, so if your strategies don't fall into line with those dates, feel free to adjust your reports accordingly.

We also welcome players to ask for specific game advice, as we have a number or stronger players who lurk and help out with solid tips, and of course, we help each other. Replies to specific questions should also be in spoilers, with a simple "@" in front of the person the answer is directed towards.

Special Thanks go to Bleys and TMIT, who really made this series a great one, r_rolo1, mapmaker extraordinaire, for his maps for most of the series, and all of you for playing.

The WB-saves are attached (zipped; they are bigger than standard saves). To play, simply download and unzip it into your BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Start the game, and load your favorite MOD (if you use one, if not, check out the BUG MOD), select "Play Scenario", and look for "NC 66 Darius Noble" (or Monarch, if you want the AI to start with its usual Archery bonus tech, or Immortal for Archery+Hunting, or Deity to add Agriculture). This allows you to play with your favorite MOD at the Level and Speed of your choice. From Quick-Warlord to Marathon-Deity, all are welcome! We stuck with the name "Nobles Club" because it has a cool ring to it.

Note for those who hate goody huts: open the WB save file with a text editor and delete all lines that say

ImprovementType=IMPROVEMENT_GOODY_HUT

 

[dalamb]

Reserved.

 

[Amao]

This is weird. No reply so far.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

This is weird. No reply so far.

I'll get to it but I'm still doing videos for the Julian Assange RPC.

 

[vranasm]

report to T42 Emperor/Normal.

I do somewhat unusual report though. i recorded my gameplay to see what horrible things I do in CIV when playing and uploaded to youtube, so everyone can see and I could probably get some advice based on real gameplay.

so without much more talks...here it is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niTXoCfngog up to T42, up to T77 is under processing

It's without live commentary for 2 reasons:
1. I doubt anyone want to hear czech language in such kind of video
2. My English is pretty poor and I doubt my family would like to hear my poor knowledge (and I doubt viewers want to hear my kids screaming etc)

I write a little bit to game strategy though since that is not probably obvious

Spoiler :

I had my doubts about opening, but decided to SIP, start with fishing and worker and switch to WB.

After quick scouting it's very obvious that going GLH and Colossus will be very strong here and that is what is basically going in the first 77 turns.

I think I really screwed a bit too much with only 1 worker for too long and those other cities are pretty unimproved.
I don't plan to build many cottages, probably no cottages at all.

 

[vhhawk]

Oh goody! Downloaded and subscribed.

Spoiler :

I've never used Darius before. Early expansion and rush supported by cottages? But the comments about this being a weird start or weird map have me edgy. I need to load BUG/BAT before I jump in.

@vranasm -- I'm greatly looking forward to your youtube, but I would like to hear narration in Czech. I wouldn't understand the audio but I know I would enjoy it for its ambiance.

 

[i_imperator]

Heh, heh, trying to give TMIT a bit of competition now, eh vranasm?!!, i'll definatly watch it.Should be a good one!
I'll try this later on, Emperor/Normal, i might turn vassles off.

 

[vranasm]

Heh, heh, trying to give TMIT a bit of competition now, eh vranasm?!! Should be a good one!
I'll try this later on, Emperor/Normal, i might turn vassles off.

well not really, my videos would become pretty boring quickly so I will not overdo it

I did not see it yet too btw... I have a feeling my eyes would bleed because it's one thing to see all those mistakes watching someone's else save/screens etc. and completely other to implement them good when actually playing.

 

[vhhawk]

2000 bc - map observation in the spoiler

Spoiler :

This map reminds me of the Maze map which I played once or twice on vanilla, except this map is two three tiles wide instead of 1 tile wide. I don't really know how to play it.. Not enough grassland for cottage spam, in the capital BFC, and too much food to farm those grassland tiles. Guess I will cottage for a few coins.

I am sucking it up so far. Made a mistake settling city #2 one tile too far from the fish I wanted. So far I've met Saladhead and Hannibal Lector.

 

[vranasm]

2000 bc - map observation in the spoiler

Spoiler :

This map reminds me of the Maze map which I played once or twice on vanilla, except this map is two tiles wide instead of 1 tile wide. I don't really know how to play it.. Not enough grassland for cottage spam, in the capital BFC, and too much food to farm those grassland tiles. Guess I will cottage for a few coins.

I am sucking it up so far. Made a mistake settling city #2 one tile too far from the fish I wanted. So far I've met Saladhead and Hannibal Lector.

Spoiler :

water maps are usually about 2 wonders... GLH and Colossus.
with financial the coast is 2f4h equivalent of non-riverside financial village... basically you get that way 25 turns of better commerce then cottage, then some turns the same and then town starts to repay those 25 turns early...

 

[lymond]

^^^^

Spoiler :

GLH will indeed kill on this map. I missed the Colossus - wasn't thinking straight. Still, I should mop up this game with the GLH and can rex like the madman that I am.

Cottages are not needed much in this game at all. GLH, Colossus and possibly mids will rule the day.

VVVVVV

Spoiler :

and too much food to farm those grassland tiles.

what?! too much food? when is that a bad thing

 

[vhhawk]

Spoiler :

what?! too much food? when is that a bad thing

Ha ha, not a bad thing at all.

Spoiler :

I just went into the game looking for mega grasslands to cottage, and it threw me that they weren't there. Until vranasm and you made the comment about GLH I wasn't even thinking about it. Just not having a good start on this game. Derp.

 

[vranasm]

part II is up, according to youtube under further processing, but finally uploaded

T42-T77

Spoiler :

1T of GLH.
I prequeued settler and 2 workers in capital, but I think I will change it to some axe for growing capital, then whipping axe into settler probably, then forge->Colossus
oh and I will probably finally switch to Slavery after GLH.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSzvZm5I-VY

 

[vhhawk]

@vranasm - how do you get those BFC dotmaps for future city sites? Enjoying video 1 btw.

Edit to add update in spoiler

Spoiler :

500 AD, Prince, Normal. Despite repeated bungling, I grabbed GLH and Pyramids, though not Colossus. Built Stonehenge and Great Wall just because they were quick and cheap, and 'henge saved me building monuments everywhere. Popped a GSpy due to GW and settled him. Settled 5 cities and captured two 2 barb cities with immortals. Currently beelining Lib. Likely will settle 1-3 fill cities, then plan to just keep settling up around through that northern stretch until I hit Salad, and take him out. By then I should be close to galleons.

 

[lymond]

You need the BUG mod. ALT-X to bring up dotmap overlay....CTL-X to make it disappear


alright! Let's Plays with Vranasm (and in 1080p no less)

 

[aball]

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

I've only settled one city with the corn to the west. I didn't see the fish so I missed out on that. I started with fishing and finished a work boat before the first worker. I finished the first settler before starting the GLH, finished with a couple chops. Next I'm looking at Colossus since the map looks like settling on the coast will pretty much be the only option. Right now I'm looking at settling down at the gems/seafood south of the 2nd city, the horses/wheat west of the capitol, and the ivory/cows south of the horses. I'm switching into slavery after the settler finishes so I can take care of the unhappy in the 2nd city.

Going forward, I'm probably going to cottage what I can, but it won't be a priority. Assuming I get colossus, I'll rely on coastal tiles and the extra trade routes for commerce and just make sure I have enough food to work the hammer tiles in my cities since coast is food neutral with the lighthouses. Now that I've finished GLH, I should be able to pump out some settlers.

 

[lymond]

V - Why no voice in the video? I want to hear that Czech accent of yours

Gotta love scared bears...very lucky

Your dotmap is almost identical to mine...at least the little I watch.

 

[vhhawk]

@aball, could you move that image to photobucket or imageshack and link from there in the spoiler? As an attached image, it gives away a lot to those who haven't tried the start yet. Thanks!

 

[Nick Carpathia]

I played until 1AD. Whoops. But that's okay, I'll go in chronological order.

Difficulty settings were Emperor/Normal/No Events/Choose Religion. I didn't bother trying to get rid of huts. My goal was to go through my own gamestyle in more detail, as my advice tends to make me come off as a posturing loudmouth.

Spoiler :

I didn't like the start, Persia doesn't start with fishing, and there were simply no plains hill tiles to pump out workboats. But hey, wet wheats are awesome tiles. Like most people, I went worker first. I went Animal husbandry to reveal horses, which was actually a bad call (should have gone for fishing). With no food pastures nearby, I'm still not sure what train of thought inspired that. Plus, those horses annoyed me to no end, why did they have to appear outside of my BFC?

A few turns later, popped Mining from a hut. Awesome! That was pretty lucky, my scout was waffling around alot and wasted alot of time backtracking. I went masonry next to improve the stone, because I figured that it would finish just as my worker finished farming the wheat.

Now, right from the get go, I was thinking of leveraging Financial and organised by spamming lots and lots of fishing villages. Financial coasts are powerful tiles, cheap lighthouses means they get up and running quickly, while cheap courthouses cuts into the per-city maintenance. Imagine my surprise when this map turned out to be perfect for this! Lots of seafood, and I suspect every single city will be coastal. Here was a tentative dotmap

I built couple of warriors to fogbust, as I thought I was isolated for a while. Another mistake I made was to research fishing so late. This got me off to a fairly slow start, I had a big argument with TMIT about the fastest way to settle your second city, and he'll probably tear me a new one for that. But that's sorta okay, no nearby AIs means less competition for nearby low-maintenance cities.

Here was my candidate 2nd city. This was a true powerhouse, with a few hills, lots of food, I wanted to use this as a settler/worker pump in the short term, and a GP farm in the long term.

Oh no! If I settle my previous candidate there, I'll lose the ocean fish! No problem, move the 2nd city 1W, and insert another one of my fish fillers[super]TM[/super].

City #3 on the bottom. It has a rather low food surplus, is sorta jungle-choked, but it claims ivory. I also started on Stonehenge in the capital, which was kinda risky considering how late I was leaving it.

It worked! Get a lighthouse, maybe even try for the Great Lighthouse.

A few chops later… Welp, that’s pretty much all the wonderspamming that you need.

Closed this deal with Hannibal. I’m glad he didn’t bother with agriculture, I don’t think he would given me the tech otherwise. Early alphabet is great for tech brokering.

Argh, I can’t believe I blew a turn of 100% research on Priesthood! I wasn’t planning on Oracle, but I wanted to go for Code of Laws. Also, forgot to mention City #4. Yet another excellent commerce site.

Later, it turned out Confucianism was from a Theocracy lightbulb, CoL was still free! I changed my mind though, too much of the world already had a religion, I didn’t have the hammers to afford my own missionaries, and I doubted I could still get CoL. That was probably a mistake, as I forgot I was Organized. Oh well, I settled my GProphet to help me work on the mids, and pushed onwards for Mathematics and Literature.

Oh yeah, I started working on the GLibrary. Look, I normally don’t wonderspam, but I had so much land available and I had both booster resources.

Whipped the mids, just in case. I revolted to representation. Oh yeah, the next turn, Islam spread to the city building GLibrary. I could have traded for monotheism that turn! Just my luck!

My capital, at 1AD. I have a lot of happycap to grow into, it’s time to really start financial cottage-spamming this city.

My GP farm. I’m pretty much set to land GLibrary, no-one else has literature.

The rest of my cities.

Things to note: I’m really behind on expansion. I’m really behind on worker turns, and there are tons of excellent city sites still up for grabs. Stonehenge and GLH make is incredibly simple to settler REX out. I’m already top of score, this is a pretty easymode map. I think I’ve had my fill of wonderspamming. There are even some aggressive plants along the north. There is a barb city to the south, I’m tempted to grab a few swordsmen and farm some experience off it to unlock the HE. Of course, I’ll need to be careful not to lose it to some archer jerk.

Boudica has been on WHEOOHRN for the last 50 turns or so, and I am the closest. I should be a bit worried as I’m the closest, but I don’t share a border with her. I’m currently researching metal casting to get the Colossus, that will boost my strategy of spamming lots of fishing villages everywhere good.

 

[vhhawk]

@Nick

Spoiler :

Why not use your Immortals rather than Swords against the barb city? Immortals are faster and cheaper than Swords and just as strong against Archers.

Also - why didn't you settle in place?

Prince/Normal/1000 AD

Spoiler :

I've finally settled and claimed all the resources from the southeast silver up to but not including the northern marble. There was a barb city on the marble; I razed it because Boudica had a HA there poised to take it. That dang Boudica. Her fist is in the air, and I think it's directed at me. Three AI's are pleased with me though. Different religions all over the place, two spread to me rather late, I founded Tao, and simply went straight to Free Religion as not to get into the mess of things. Made some good coin selling my map to everyone, then got Hannibal's for the asking. What a pal!

Edit: popped a Great Engineer in my capital and used him to build Taj Mahal, a wonder I had no intention of pursuing earlier. Before the last couple of games I never realized the value of using a GE to hurry a wonder like this.