Nobles' Club XLVII: Mansa Musa of Mali

[Amao]

@drlake

Spoiler :

Spiritual helps in switching the civics. But the current plan is rather more generic. The only difference would be I may or may not switch into slavery at all depending on the intial food I have in the first 3-4 cities. The more food, the less need to be in slavery. It's a little counter intuitive, right?

The intial tech is Writting centric, to get lib asap in the GP farm (of course also on capital, but less priority) and run scientists for academy. Of course, you also need to pick some intial worker techs and get 3-4 cities by turn 50. Then, on lower difficulty levels, i figured that it's more beneficial to go for Poly->Priesthood and self teching Monarchy as well as seeking for the Oracle slingshot to CoL (This is heavily map dependent, so no ganrantee, and self teching CoL is ok, too.) Once, Monarchy in hand, switch over to HR and pump capital's pop as fast as possible well focus on cottages as much as possible. The first GS should be out around this time, remember to do binary research, it makes the most significant difference at around this time. Getting Civil Service takes turns, so don't expand too many cities (>8) before you get it. After that, the capital can provide more cash on 0% science hence supporting larger mantanance fees.

I happened to found this merchant specialist trick on NC 46, where my GP farm auto switched to merchants and I saw the differences they made to the overall economy, and sticked with it. I have a 25 AD shot of that game, and there were some interesting comparison. Note, that game was under Noble/Normal and the major differences are Oracle->CoL, Exp vs Fin, easy Barb vs not so easy Barb, later war preparations than earlier (willem vs toku, they are so different). As you can see, I was almost done Edu there (due to oracle slingshot and war tech picks) but my overall beaker was just below 200.

Spoiler :

 

[drlake]

Hmmmm, a new tactic to try I see. I'm currently playing an older NC game (Pericles) on Monarch/Epic. I'm a bit late to try this (930AD) and thanks to getting blocked by an AI protective civ only have five cities. That said, I'm the tech leader and the only civ with Astronomy so I'm getting set to start expanding overseas while I tech to Liberalism (I got Astronomy before Paper by bulbing two GSs) and keep friends with my neighbors. Next time I get a high food start, I may try to run a SE again and use GMs that way.

 

[duckstab]

UN victory, 1934AD, Noble/Epic
View attachment Ducka Staba AD-1934.CivBeyondSwordSave

Spoiler :

Finally managed to finish!

Shortly after my last post, WvO did indeed offer to become my vassal. I beelined for Rifling and Assembly Line, which got me infantry ages before anyone else. I started working on a stack to use against Boudica, since she wouldn't OB with me and I'd managed to spread Confucianism to everyone else.

At some point I figured an AP win wasn't in the cards, so I built the UN and switched to FR. Around this time Stalin DoWed Hannibal for the second time. Hannibal asked for help and I figured what the hey. Took 3 of Uncle Joe's cities with Infantry and he capitulated.

I then went back to building up my invasion force against Celtia. I had plenty of ground units but had to crank out a bunch of Galleons and Frigates for escort. Switched to US and started rush-buying big time. Hit Boudica ~1914, she capitulated after I took only two cities. Throughout this era SB was in a protracted war with Hannibal and Gilgamesh.

That served me well because here I was on the southern continent with a massive army and Sumeria was apparently pretty drained, the only problem being Giggles had managed to research AL and upgraded all his protective longbows to infantry. I decided to go for Industrialism, built tanks, marines, and a couple battleships. I expected tougher going but again, Sumeria capitulated after I took only two cities.

I now had four vassals and plently of votes. Just needed to wait for it to come up.

This has been a fun one.

 

[Heliac]

w00t! My first Monarch Victory
Diplomatic on Normal Speed, 1930 AD

Spoiler :

I started by rushing the dude north of me (Dutch, I think?)... built a shrine on his Jewish Holy City, which later on became my Wall Street City... wiped him out completely. Then I blocked off Hannibal & Staling by settling between the mountain ranges, so I could fill out my side of the continent at leisure.

Mansa's coin bonus OWNS!

When I was ready, I started capturing Holy Cities for more revenue. Boudica went first. Capitulate. Then Gilgamesh. Capitulate. Then Stalin (didn't have holy cities, but he had a huge tech disadvantage). Capitulate. By this time I had finished the UN and had enough votes for a Diplomatic Victory.

The attached save is 5 turns before guaranteed diplomatic victory. In those five turns I declared war on Hannibal, dropped eight nukes on him and Capitulated him too, just for kicks

This one was a lot of fun!
Any expert pointers would be welcome...

 

[drlake]

Gratz, Heliac!

 

[Kreda]

I gave this one a shot - no screenshots tho. Monarch, normal, no events, 1888 Domination.

Spoiler :

Started by settling my second city directly north of the capital, on the copper site.
Tech path was Agriculture->Fishing->Hunting->Bronze Working->Masonry (got the great wall).

Settled 2 cities even further north, close to Wilhelm - first one to grab marble (which gave me lots of wonders, don't recall exactly which ones but Great Library was among them), and the second one to block him off - I had all the southeastern land to settle.
Grabbed 2 barb cities there and settled filler cities, then cottage spammed everything.

I took Nationalism off Liberalism and bee-lined Democracy, and adopted Universal Suffrage, Free Speech and Emancipation right after.

Went straight for Communism (carried by my boosted CE) to get the Kremlin, then for Rifling and MIlitary Tradition to get the Cavalry.
Then I turned my slider to 0% and started buying out commerce infrastructure and my army.

Went for Wilhelm first - killed him in a few turns, but he still managed to bribe Stalin into war against me - which made him the next target.

Stalin Capitulated after loosing a few cities (not even Moscow).

Hannibal Capitulated after loosing 2 cities, SB had to loose 3. The whole continent was now mine - at around 1800 ad.

It was time to turn my slider up and research Rocketry and Fission, to nuke the hell out of Gilgamesh and Boudica who were on the island south. After getting that, I've bought lots of ICBM's and went berserk on the poor 2 remaining guys (Boudica had a defensive pact with Gilgamesh), capitulating both of them at 1888 AD and winning domination

 

[monkeycid]

Let's give this a go! I'll be playing this in parallel with NC 51 - I hope I can apply what I learn there to do better in this game. I'll be playing on Monarch/Normal, which is a step up from my normal Prince level.

Initial thoughts, 4000 BC:
I've been playing SE-heavy my last few games, but the leader - and this start - screams for cottages. I settled in place and moved my warrior west to scout. Found a hut on a hill which I'll investigate.

Initial teching will be Agri followed by BW. I want to get a few farms to get the capital to grow, and then I'll probably go Pottery and start spamming away. If I find a rival real quick I might instead tech to skrimishers - I've almost never rushed so early, and it could be a good thing to try and learn. Let's see what develops!

 

[monkeycid]

Up to 1000 BC notes, written as they were being played:

Spoiler :

My scout popped the hut, and then got interested in the river to the north of the capital. I ran up it, meeting the Dutch in the process, and I hunted for their capital for a two turns until my warrior was eaten by a bear. Oops. Back at home, my worker finished and I started training a replacement warrior, which would complete the same turn the city grows to size two. The warrior will scout east and then north, desperately trying to find a city location worthy of the settler that will be chopped out following him.

The site between the rivers slightly NW of my capital looks like it could end up a godly produciton site lategame. I don't really know how to calculate whether it has enough food, but with a cow and a flood plain I think it will be able to fend for itself, and could be a worthwhile fairly early settle. Teching hunting, which will speed up AH after i get Archery.

2440 BC:
I established my second city 3E of the capital, thinking the rice and cows could help it grow. I'm not good at dealing with this much plains. How much food should i look for before settling? It looks like there's a nice low-food location with gold further SE of this, but I'm not sure if I can feed it properly. I let my capital grow to size 5 while sending out a cadre of warriors to find more suitable city locations. Another warrior got eaten by the local fauna, standing on a hill overlooking a river. Bad roll, there :/

(later)
Wow, that's a lot of plains and hills. Leaves me at a bit of a loss. I'll be settling 2S of the stone for my third city. There's quite some green way to the east, but it's dead-end country and I'd like to figure out where I need to block so that I can expand later. Got a 3 FP cottages up in capital, I'll be converting FP farms to cottages now that the city is large (Is this wise, or a criminal devaluation of the earlier worker turns?)

Meanwhile, I'm scouting all around for opponent location and city sites while building a library in the capitol. I'll be whipping it out, even without a granary. (Again - a criminal waste or decent?). Then I'll be going for my first academy.

Stalin decided that he hates me, but I still got open borders with him and Willem. A side question - how does this "first impression" thingie work? I've not noticed it until a few games ago. Is it difficulty-related, making the diplomacy more of a uphill battle on the higher difficulties?

~1400 BC:
After linking up stone, I chopped out the great wall - I'm planning to expand rather thinly. This does reduce the chances of me getting that early great scientist, but an early great spy isn't so bad either. We'll see what happens.

In the meantime, I found where both willem and Stalin are located. I'm tempted to block stalin off with cities in the massif, but that doesn't make sense economically at present. Instead, I'll block off Willem to the north of my dual river. It seems like a nice place. The barbarians have settle to the Nw of me - I'll let them be for now. Better not let them linger too long, though, as then willem will just take it and be out of containment. I'm thinking of settling the entire eastern bloc of land - I'm raking in commerce in the capital and I might be able to get away with it.

1000 BC:
Teching is interesting now. I've got most classical techs researched. I decided to go for Priesthood and take a stab at an early oracle. If I manage to settle the marble near Willem then I could try to chop in a late oracle, and it'll give me a good line on a GLH later. I'll focus on expanding for a while, trying to find a good GP farm city and focusing on blocking off Willem - The mountains should keep Stalin and Hannibal off me for a good while.

Here's the lowdown on land:

and tech:

Any thoughts on tech or expansion? I think I'll go metal casting nad try to get Colossus, and perhaps the Great Lighthouse. I've never really used them, and it seems I'll be on the coast a lot, so...

 

[monkeycid]

Up to 25 AD:

Spoiler :

800BC: Block city up, metal casting well underway. I'll try to hook up the marble ASAP and try to chop out the oracle. I'll likely fail, but failgold is acceptable to me. (Question: is this a bad idea at this late stage?)

625BC: Ok, I'll not chop up the oracle. Instead, I'm going for an outrageous CS sling. In 7 turns I'll finish CoL, and 8 turns the oracle. If this works... things are crazy. if it doesn't work - things still look well. Let's see what happens.

450 BC: beaten to the great lighthouse. Soon completed Mint in second city: with luck that'll mean I can get Colossus up in time. Three turns away from oracle sling. I'm feeling giddy!

400 BC: CRUD! CS requires Math. Three turns away from Oracle, d turns from math. Do I dare to gamble? Do I? Aagh! I do! failgold from GLH lets me run 100% research, and I reactivated the science specialists in the capital. It's three turns. They'll be nerve-wracking.

325 BC: SUCCESS! Oracle and CS is on. Now it's time to expand a little.

[later] Decided I'd hem in rather than fight Willem, so I took his religion. Once the western powers get religions, I'll convert to the most diplomatically prudent one, in a bid to delay invasion. Question: Might it be nifty to try to convert the western powers to my religion, in order to get good relations with them? Seems like it'd cost a lot of gold, and perhaps not be worth too much, given who they are. I think I won't - what do you think?

25 AD:
Colossus done in a turn. colossus, next up for settling is the north-easternmost grassland. Then I'll either grab the location west of Kumbi Saleh ("Map Control 1") in order to control that piece of land, or grab either of the sites marked "Yum" or "useful?". I'll likely go for one of the latter. What do you all think would have been the stronger move?

Currently teching for Liberalism, which I'll probably sink into Printing Press. I need to get more cottages up and start leveraging financial - I've been slacking too much on that front. There's so little grassland :/ Is cottaging plains worthwhile? Seems a little iffy to me.

The situation:
Land:

Cities:

Techtrade:

 

[monkeycid]

Up to 1000 AD:

Spoiler :

~200 AD:
So, I realized State Property and Biology is going to be bloody key here. Thus i'll keep an eye on getting them real fast, but we'll see what pops up on the way.

Workers! you need them. So do I. After I pop my next settler out, it's worker-spam time. I have 5 or so, waaay to few. After that settler, it's time to take the barb city south of Willem, so he doesn't take it instead. I'll grab a few swords for the job. If they fail, willem won't have enough to get it either, and I'll get maces eventually.

Got a GS, bulbed philo, and went into pacifism. My military is small, and GL is almost done. The extra upkeep should be well compensated by the education bulb I'll do later.

325 AD: Willem is trying to capture the southern barb city. I had an axeman nearby and snuck up to finish the job for him. Thanks, pal!

So he's trying to break out - Perhaps I should finish the contain by settling the very brown land that separates is an opening in my cultural wall...

Going for The Parthenon in my block city. This is probably stupid - please advice what I should have done instead. [Parthenon succeeded, and leaves me without culture worries. The extra GPP are nice, but it still feels kinda silly.]

Please give me some advice on how to develop this city! I've no idea what to do with all the brown at this current tech stage.


[No notes until 1010 AD, nothing much happened]

I've cottaged the capital *properly* now, something I should have done hundreds if not thousants of years ago. Sloppy! Also cottaging up my newly built grassland cities in the east. I should have built them ages ago as well. Ah well, learning is learning.

I'm friendly with all leaders but Carthage. They are much stronger militarily than me, and they are also getting mighty large, while I've god bad production. I wonder if I can afford to wait before getting a stronger army - they're really backwards in the tech department, but a stack of low-tech units can easily smash through my defenses anyway. I'm currently getting universities; a couple of longbows is probably the next thing after I've finished them.

Current plan: Keep teching and developing. Get around to taking the damn barb city. Try to keep friendly, and figure out how I want to win. Cannons and cuirassiers perhaps?

The situation:

Land:

Eastern land in development:

Cities:

Techs:

Demographics:

Everything's great except soldiers. Yeah, need to work on that. It'll take a while, but if I get declared I can insta-hop into nationalism and draft up a slew of macemen - I think I'm safe for the time being.

 

[vranasm]

@monkeycid

Spoiler :

It's 1k AD, you have tech lead and dutches are not dead?

From the screenshots I think you can afford more then just 8 cities and really should get them. 3 of dutches + barb would be good addition. But you maybe missed timeframe for swords+cats war.

To the Gao city... well the way you developed it...would be probably best to cottage those plains around river and leave it be.

Walata (or something like that, tough to read) should probably be prod. city (together with Djenne) since it has it's share of hills, so mine those hills, scrap the cottage for farm, make some workshop at plains (after caste, guilds, chemistry it's 4 hammers).

What plans have you for Niani? That could be probably another prod. city.

From the looks at screenshots (I still didnt play this game) the map is prod pure, you will have to rely a bit on workshops

edit:

Spoiler :

As it seems you don't have connected cities to trade network, that probably indicates too low number of workers.

Probably next time focus more on city specialization so cities that are prod. dont get cottages and cities that are commerce get only "just enough" farms, prod. (since even in commerce cities you have from time to time build something)

 

[Costen]

I decided to give this map a try on Prince/Epic

Spoiler To 600BC :

I expanded to 4 cities large, making 3 commercial cities and 1 industrial. At first I was worried about the amount of plains in the area, but there seems to be plenty of land to settle. Once I got iron working I made some swordsman to go attack the Dutch, maybe a bit late but it all worked out.

Spoiler To 1435AD :

The Dutch went down very fast, with only 2 archers guarding Amsterdam, and one other new city with 1 archer. Apparently Willem marched all the way to Cartage and took out Hannibal before he had any chance to expand, so I never had the pleasure of meeting Hannibal, but I did get the pleasure of taking Carthage from Willem, which was also the founding city of Buddhism.

With all the open land I slowly expanded, making sure my economy didn't fall short. I founded Christianity, Taoism, and Islam, and built the Apostolic Palace, not that it's doing much good as Sitting Bull is Buddhist and I'm not. I'm about to hit rifling though and take out Sitting Bull and gain control of the continent.

I feel like I should expand faster for all this land, but I'm always afraid to since the crash of my economy usually follows. Overall this is probably going to be an easy game with the easy control of what is probably the largest continent on the map.