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NOOB GUIDE! (for the sake of your own sanity)

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Strategy & Tips' started by radaghast, Feb 6, 2004.

  1. radaghast

    radaghast Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Ok being a n00b myself I must warn other n00bsters about certain things in Civ3 that you absolutely HAVE to know or there is a good possibility that you will stay in noob hell forever! (Im serious it is possible)
    First thing is a little something that gets batted and kicked and smacked around here a bit but no one has really just come out and said it. If they did, they would have saved this n00b COUNTLESS hours of N00b hardship. :)

    #1 FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DO NOT FOR WHATEVER REASON PLAY CHEIFTAN!!!!!
    Bottom line. It's twice as hard to play as the next level. Easily. TWICE AS HARD IF NOT FOUR TIMES AS HARD!!
    I tried getting into this game years ago. Tried on Chieftan probably 8 or ten times and was unable to get anywhere in any game. Gave up until recently. Why should I try the next level when I CANT BEAT the first? With Civ3 that whole way of thinking is out the window. The game revolves around getting techs. THE BEST way to get techs is to trade with other civs. In CHieftaN the civs are ubor dumb and evolve super slow. They also don't get out and about with their boats quickly which is bad because you can't trade with those you can't see. Because you have to research EVERY tech yourself you'll be lucky to get out musket men before the year 2050 in Chieftan. (if your n00b)
    I kid you not. Chieftan is not "easy" it is "stupid" it is "hard" it is "slow" GO WARLORD RIGHT AWAY!

    #2 Stack peasants! Two is good. Three is better! Make sure your city has roads, food, and mines. Leave NO patch of earth bare and remember that improvements can be built on even luxuries. Don't build a road and move on. Build a road, then a mine, then move on. That saves you tonnes of moves.

    #3 Small cities are NOT useless! Plant forests next to those crappy towns. (when you get construction)Two forest squares with two peasant wood choppers on each. I actually go nuts with the wood chopping, stacks of four peasents on three squares. You can reforest early on but not right away. I can't stress how much this helps small towns grow. That "87 turns left" means nothing when you have a good forestry system. I built a harbour in a #2 city in a few turns!

    #4 Defensive units for DEFENCE Offensive units for offence. Try it the other way around and you'll lose, lose, lose! (IE pikeman attacking=BAD swordsman defending=BAD! It doesn't matter how many units you have stacked. I've seen a single defending Pikeman take out a stack of 7 attacking Pikeman. :(

    #5 (IMO) Don't worry to much about wonders (unless culture victory is on) The 32 turns it takes to build Galileos Supreme Project of Ubor-Cheese "could" be better used pumping out a military.
    *edit-there are a few wonders that are worth building such as pyramids/great Library/Theory of evolution (two instant techs I love this one)

    #6 (IMO) Don't study techs. Keep the sliders at zero unless your ahead. Make money, buy them from others, wheel and deal. Keep up to date on who has what tech. Buy one then use it to get another off somone else. It seems to me that it is faster this way but I'm still a noob so I'll get flak for that I'm sure :)
    *edit- I have started studying a few techs later in the game when the other civs have nothing to offer to stay ahead of the curve.

    #7 Build cities close together. Any spaces in your culture borders invites settlers to build and block your passage through your land. Remember the culture border (outer border) does not reflect the squares that your town can work. The inner white border does.

    #8 Distribute your city people manually. Sometimes they will work a crap square when there's a gold deposit right next to them. Keep an eye out for that. And never automate workers. Automating is for kids :)

    #9 Try to mainly build units that can upgrade. Swordsmen are great early but just try to build a pike for every sword. Comes in handy as hell later on.

    #10 Make sure your aware of the victory conditions. I've read stories on this forum where somone will be one step away from a sure win, only to be beaten by a victory condition they didn't know was activated.

    #11 Read the threads on this awsome forum.

    #12 Ask the Civ how much it wants for a tech before offering $$$ Sometimes you will be suprised. IE he will ask 300+world map for a 1000$ tech!

    #13 Don't "do" wealth. Get that no.2 town that has no forest to build a musket man in 98 turns. That way when you come back to the town you can spend the sheilds on whatever you want. Getting them to build things that take time is the only way to save up those shields. When you see a tonne of shields in that town later on, switch production to something that you can use, IE a bank or whatever.

    -Well that's it for now. I welcome any input positive or negative from all levels of players. Feel free to add to this n00bster thread if you like! I still have lots to learn about this amazing game.
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  2. Greyhawk1

    Greyhawk1 King

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    England
    I've found the problem with tech trading is the AI has an elite group who intertrade with each other - as one researches a tech, all the other members of this group get it for almost nothing. And then there are the underlings who dont get any techs.

    So I find I'm continuously behind say two civs who are half the size of my own with a third of the cities and when I trade they are always at least two techs ahead. So I cant trade with them. All the underlings have no techs worth trading anyway. So i'm always left in a kind of tech oblivion with a group who are always an absolute minimum of two techs ahead and the rest who are way behind (usually almost an era).

    No matter what I set my tech slider to, no matter how many techie buildings I build those elite Civs always and I mean always stay those elusive two techs ahead!!
     
  3. radaghast

    radaghast Chieftain

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    That's why I rarely put the sliders up at all. It means you've always got enough cash to buy. A civ usually asks about 1000/1300 for a industrial tech. AT least this way you can just buy techs and keep up. Like I said I was "keeping up" and then built the theory of evolution. Suddenly I'm the one who's two techs up :)
    That reminds me I have a #12 to add.

    Btw Grey that is exactly what the buggers do. I'll bet they just give their buddies the techs. :)
     
  4. supaguruzebidy

    supaguruzebidy Kill,Kill,Kill,Kill,Kill!

    Joined:
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    Greyhawk if you are bigger that means you are stronger! I cannot stress the importance of building embassies with other nations.If you aren't in the elite circles put yourself in these circles!Don't worry about research just crank the bank!Use the money to buy friends and power. A donation of 1000 gold will win over any nation.Get a rights of passage deal then mutual protection deal,then declare war on the nation with the most techs ahead of you!Each time you take a city you will get one tech from them.Use your muscle when the cash don't work. With a strong and numerous military you can control the world without having to fire one shot.BE VERY NICE TO YOUR ALLIES AND TREAT YOUR ENEMIES VERY BADLY! This way most nations will want to be on your good side rather than your bad side.
     
  5. radaghast

    radaghast Chieftain

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    Each time you take a city you will get one tech from them
    Awsome I never knew that, thanks mang :)
     
  6. Greyhawk1

    Greyhawk1 King

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    I'm discovering more and more that Civilization is less about actual CIVILIZEation and more about CONQUESTation. The game is just a wargame really since unless you are a superb player who can do the impossible (like Charis) the only way to get ahead is to kill everyone in sight.

    Not that thats a really bad thing its just annoying that you cant take many other paths to victory than that one that is covered in blood. Even in a diplo victory its usually won by slaightering at least one or two civs to get a tech lead so you can get Fission.

    I'm slowly learning that researching your own techs is just not viable after Chieftain.

    Maybe civ 4 can redress this balance a bit :)
     
  7. Giao-long

    Giao-long Chieftain

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    Actually no. I played a recent game as Greece (in chieftain which in my opinion is really easy) and got a diplomatic victoyr. All i did was make sure other civs were polite until 4 turns from building UN i bribed like...nothing else. In the early game all i built was hoplites and settlers and settled land as far away as possible then expanded inwards. That worked in making a very large nation. By the time UN came around i signed MPP's with a lot of ppl (along with giving them the extra resources i had) and everyone voted for me, except the other candidate. This was only my 4th civ game i ever played.
     
  8. Longasc

    Longasc Deity

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    Greyhawk, take a look at history. Almost all great leaders fought bloody wars. I think Civilization is a lot about conquest and war - but hey, if you want to go to war, play MEDIEVAL: TOTAL WAR -> you will probably like it! :)

    At some point you will have a continent of your own, or you will simply not be able to kill all opponents. Then you must rely on Diplomacy or Space Race, the most interesting game I had was with Rome, my first Monarch game or so, and I won a histographic Victory.

    I could not have won by Conquest or Military means. I improved my position by making trades and making peace, I could never have beaten only the Chinese and not that whole ****ing continent full of Germans, Americans and the French...

    History is and was written in blood - no Empire without war. I just think that Civ emphasizes on building infrastructure and getting happy citizens a lot, too.
     
  9. Yobert

    Yobert Chieftain

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    Sweden
    Since when do you get a tech in civ3 when you take a city
     
  10. wilbill

    wilbill That Old Time Religion

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    And don't count on seeing it happen, because it doesn't. IIRC it was a Civ 2 feature. Only way to get techs through warfare in Civ 3 is to get them as part of peace negotiations.
     
  11. Ision

    Ision Master

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    There are so may errors in the last few post that I do not know where to begin. Please do not take offence - my sole purpose is to help new players.

    Firstly, chopping forest does NOT speed wonder production.

    Secondly, there is no reason whatsoever not to research techs yourself at the lower levels of play. The lower the level the EASIER it is to keep up - get ahead - and stay ahead. The 0 research gambit was actually created for higher level players that play at Emperor or above. That is not to say that you can not use it well at Monarch and below (and should practice it if you plan to move up) - its just that researching yourself is usually the better option at lower difficulty levels.

    Thirdly, building cities closer together is not done in order to 'block' your neighbors settlers - it was devised as a means of hurrying the early expansion phase and for better military re-action. Also, it is only 1 of 3 styles of city layouts, and no better or no worse than any of the others. Its value is determined by your play style - competence- and goals. Primarily it serves the warmonger better than the peaceful player.

    Fourthly, there is no 'elite' group of AIs that trades with each other. The AI is far too stupid for that. What exist is a trading bonus for the AI Civs that you do not have. So they trade with each other at a cheaper cost than when you try to trade.

    Also, CIV is not only about conquest - what it is about is solely up to the human player. A peacefull player looking for culture or space victories will find the game just as rewarding as a warmonger. It does not take an expert t win peacefully - in fact on average it takes LESS expertise to win with 1 or 2 wars the whole game (5000 years!)than to play as a warmonger seeking world domination. The warmomger will face so many many more issues than the peacefull player- war weariness/MPPs/totalitarian governments/unit micromangement/reputation hits/ect.....

    here are a few more:

    You do NOT automatically get a tech every time you take any enemy city. The AIs do NOT just give away their techs to each other. Always building a mine after building a road does NOT always save moves - nor is it always appropriate. Offensive units are often just as good or better than defensive units at defending - in fact new players build far to few offensive units.

    There is even more - but this is enough for now.

    Ision
     
  12. wilbill

    wilbill That Old Time Religion

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    Ision, :goodjob: !

    I would add that Chieftain is certainly not 4X as difficult as Warlord. :crazyeye:
     
  13. Giao-long

    Giao-long Chieftain

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    Ision that doesn't make sense to me. Offensive units have lower defense ratings than defensive units. Unless u use off. units to attack defensively (enemy units come near a city and you attack them instead of the other way around). But that only goes so far. If the enemies have a bigger stack than you, then that plan fails. Can an expert explain Ision's comment plz, i think im too noob to understand.:)
     
  14. Ision

    Ision Master

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    Naturally a single spearman in a city is better than a single horseman at saving your city from conquest. However - we are not dealing here with 1 vs 1 situations. An enemy AI that sends 2 spears and 4 swords into my terrority will get hit BEFORE he is at the gates of my city. I would much rather have 6 archers than 6 spearman in this event.

    Yes I DO build defensive units - but very few, only enough to hold a far away border, escort artillary, a couple with a large offensive stack to absorb counter-attacks, or to hold a choke point. A nice rule of thumb for newbies is the 3 to 1 rule. For every spearman you have there should be about 3 offensive units.

    Ision
     
  15. Giao-long

    Giao-long Chieftain

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    Ahh that makes sense. hmm think ill stick to that 3:1 rule now.
     
  16. Dr Elmer Jiggle

    Dr Elmer Jiggle King

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    In addition to what Ision said, note that in the early stages of the game, the best offensive units really are as good on defense as the truly defensive units. Compare:

    Swordsman 3.2.1 vs. Spearman 1.2.1
    Knight 4.3.2 vs. Pikeman 1.3.1

    Of course, that neglects shield cost and upgrades, which make the defensive units more attractive. Still, the point is that if you make a swordsman or knight, you've got a very versatile unit that can serve as either offense or defense. Build enough of those powerful offensive units, and it doesn't matter how many defenders you have, because the enemy will be crushed! :hammer:
     
  17. radaghast

    radaghast Chieftain

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    Offensive units are often just as good or better than defensive units at defending
    It's just tuff to fathom that when the towns I defend with Pikemen
    fend off a hoard of knights and the towns I defend with swordsmen are destroyed...
     
  18. Giao-long

    Giao-long Chieftain

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    When pikeman come around that;s when you get chivalry and get knights, who have same defense but higher offense. till then just use the pikeman. with issues like these you have to know when to build def. units and when to start producing the off.
     
  19. nullspace

    nullspace King

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    Another important reason to have offensive units for defense is that the AI will generally not attack well-defended towns. They'll chase workers around, disrupting your progress on improvements. They'll pillage, and you'll have to repair it later. That also counts as a "victory" fro that ai, and they'll ask for more from you when you try to ask for peace because they think they're winning.

    If you want to get them out of your territory, you need offensive units. Using your roads, you've got a big movement advantage, so you can counterattack very well in your own territory. And once you've beaten off the attackers, yo can use the offensive units to make them pay for thinking of attacking you.
     
  20. Riccett

    Riccett Chieftain

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    Kinda surprised nobody mentioned this yet but...

    Catapults, Catapults, Catapults..... Help your defenders, Help your offence. Use them!!!!

    Offense:

    Use them to weaken the enemies attackers and defenders. When attacking a fortified spearmen in a ememy town size 1 to 6, the spearmens modified defence is 3 (2 + (2 x 50%)). Lets say that the ememy spearmen is a veteran (4 hp). Your chances of winning that battle unharmed with a Archer is 2.56% ((2/5)^4). Now lets say that you have bombarded that ememy spearmen down to 1 hp. Now you chances of winning that battle on the first attack is 40% (2/5). Better yet, your chances of lossing that battle are 12.96% with a veteran archer, 21.6% with a regular archer. It's all about the probability of things. Now these are just a couple examples, obviously there are many out comes possible as far as hp lost on both sides. Bottome line is that catapults, and any bombardment unit for that fact, greatly increase you chances of winning battles. Which there for saves you units, gets you more promotions, gets you more elite units, and therefore gives you better chances are leaders. The more units you save, the more shields you produce can go towards other things, instead of reinforcments.

    Defense:

    When the enemy attacks one of you stacks that contains a catapult, before the battle begins, the catapult gets a pop shot at the attacker first. It doesn't always succeed, but when it does, it takes away one of the attackers hp. Basically turning a attacking veteran unit, into a attacking regular unit.

    Another Tip:

    Don't be afraid to built walls in you board cities. They are cheap in shields, and they require no maintainence. A fortified spearmen in a city on a hill with walls has a modified defense of 5!!! Thats higher then a Musketman!!! Even if you take the hill away, a fortified spearmen behind walls has a modified defense of 4, which is equal to a Musketman.

    Now, next time you math teacher starts talking about probabilities and how to calculate them, pay attention. It will make you civ'ing more successful. lol

    If any of you have questions on how to figure the probability of these battles, just post it here, and I will go further into it.

    Riccett
     

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