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NOOB GUIDE! (for the sake of your own sanity)

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Strategy & Tips' started by radaghast, Feb 6, 2004.

  1. radaghast

    radaghast Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2004
    Messages:
    20
    I have a question concerning unit HPs. Sometimes I'll fight a unit and it's health won't budge. It just basically whoops ass without losing one hp. When I attack with the next unit, which is the same as the last, I start doing damage. Is there a strong 4hp and a weakened 4hp?
     
  2. Greyhawk1

    Greyhawk1 King

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2003
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    725
    Location:
    England
    That's just the Random Number Generator (RNG). Sometimes it can really kill your offensive off better than any enemy unit.

    Losing an entire stack of 10 Cavalry to a handful of Keshik is one painful way of being on the wrong end of the RNG. That just happened to me.

    For some unknown reason mobile units with the same attack strength as non-mobile always seem to do better in combat - especially against cities. Dunno why...
     
  3. radaghast

    radaghast Chieftain

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    Roger that :)
     
  4. Riccett

    Riccett Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2003
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    Location:
    Grand Rapids MI
    As Greyhawk said, its the RNG. Thats why a lot of battles seem to have "streaky" outcomes. (aka you attack, you hit 3 times, then the redlined enemy gets 4 in a row against you and kills you.) In the long run aka as a whole, the numbers still balance out. I am not a fan of the RNG, seems to me they could come up with a better way of handling it. But, I'm no programmer, so who am I to say anything I guess.
     
  5. Riccett

    Riccett Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2003
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    75
    Location:
    Grand Rapids MI
    Good timing if I say so. Fired up a game after my first post and up came the Ottomans. America, Japan, Greece, and the Iroquois all decided to dog pile me. Started by Japan, because I told them to stick there demand. America demanded 2 turns later, I said stick it to them too. Iroquois joined the party along with Greece from alliance with America. America was expanding like crazy and had me boxed. I did manage to get 5 cities planted, 1 during the war. But anyways, as usually, I had about 5 catapults working for me, and this is my reward...

    1. Leader #1 - came from a elite archer finishing off a redlined archer. (redlined from catapult bombardment) Used him to build an army, because with Americas rapid expansion, I had no need for a forbidden place yet, let alone enough cities for one.

    2. Leader #2 - came from another elite archer finishing off a relined spearmen. (again, redlined because of catapult bombardment). Unfortunately, my culture is obviously pretty low, so both of the American cities I took, Atlanta then Boston, got razed. But as you can see, I got a settler over to what used to be Boston, and he with rush the forbidden place there. America and Japan both made peace, but in the near future, my first ring around my FP with be made from American cities. hehe

    In both cases, I got archers up to elite by, you guessed it, bombarding till redlined and then attacking with my archers. After they win, cover them with a spearmen for protection.

    I didn't advance on America until after I got my first leader, I just let the four nations come to me, and wala.

    As you can see, its only 350 bc and I have 2 leaders already with the Heroic Epic due in Istanbul in 13 turns, which will just increase my chances for Great Leaders.

    I don't mean to brag, but I used to get so pissed at this game and reading and seeing stuff like this always refreshened my spirits. Happy Leader Haversting to you.

    Riccett

    first time I have upload a picture, so bare with me if it doesn't come up right the first time.

    Edit: I delete the old picture cause it was so big, but can't seem to upload the new cropped picture to this post for some reason. So I will just add it below this post in a new one, sorry.
     
  6. Riccett

    Riccett Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Grand Rapids MI
    Here ya go!!!
     

    Attached Files:

  7. radaghast

    radaghast Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2004
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    Heh, and I was getting erked when my cities auto built them. Maybe I'll give the pultz another go.
     
  8. Riccett

    Riccett Chieftain

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    Grand Rapids MI
    they are worth it, IMO. They upgrade through the entire game and save you a lot of units. Worth their wait in gold.
     
  9. Greyhawk1

    Greyhawk1 King

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    England
    Wow! You got Catapults to work?! They look good but damn are the inaccurate or what?
     
  10. a4phantom

    a4phantom Perma-newbie

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2004
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    2,062
    Location:
    MN, USA
    I disagree about the chieftan level.

    I just started playing as an Arab warlord after graduating from Japanese chieftan, and I think warlord is considerably harder. At chief you have to do the wrong thing in the wrong place at the wrong time over and over again not to win (i.e. it's perfect for those learning to play). I've won both Warlord games, but I haven't had an era and a half lead and built every wonder like on chief.

    A disclaimer - I'm playing PTW and research nearly all of my own tech rather than trading for it, as I'm told you have to do at higher levels.
     
  11. Greyhawk1

    Greyhawk1 King

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    I find Warlord is a huge leap in difficulty. On Chieftain the AI is mind-numbingly inept at all tasks. It seldom goes to war and when it does its almost always a shambles.

    Playing Warlord I very rarely get anywhere in techs by researching them myself. The AI effortlessly catches up and overtakes your civ so trading is the only way to stay ahead. Also you have to start using a few tricks to keep ahead of the AI.

    The two Regent games I have played (and won) were bone-crackingly hard for me. Constantly having to mess with the research/lux slider, wondering when the next attack will come, dealing with unhappiness, war-weariness and all the other problems is a headache.

    On both games I had to win by being ultra-sneaky. Forcing the AI into MPP's to slow their research when war is declared then stealing techs when they go into Anarchy after lots of war weariness etc etc...

    The last game I was a gnat's testicle away from being annihilated. Only an impromptu MPP saved me and prevented me from getting invaded by all and sundry.
     
  12. benben

    benben Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2004
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    22
    I am also "quite" a newbie (blessed with experience of civ and civ 2) and is playing at warlord / regent level now. Here's my thought of the different levels for a newbie:

    1. Chieftain:
    Usually I will need to research almost everything by myself and can barely reach the modern era by 2050. Good as a start to get familiarize with the game itself as you can ignore the AI cos they seldom harass you or threaten your win.

    At chieftain, I can own almost all great wonders except the the few ancient ones which are "packed" closely together like pyramid, oracle and colossus, you can only get one of them.

    2. Warlord:
    At warlord level, I will be more active in tech trading till mid medieval period. From then on, I will do most of my own researches and I could sometimes pull huge tech lead as far as 1 1/2 era away from the closest rival. Usually reaching the modern era around 1900s.

    The game play is alot more intensed for a newbie and you gotta expand more agressively, learn how to conduct early wars, and balance your production between city improvements and army units.

    3. Regent:
    I find it imposible to be self reliant on technology at this level, and learnt not to feel disheartened when fallen behind. Very unlike chieftain and warlord, I will find that I am among the smaller and backwards civs after the intial expansion phase is over.

    The catch up period (if any at all) for me is usually during mid industrial period after I have amalgamated my neighbours, and have to try very hard to secure the UN before other civs as not to suffer diplomatic defeats.

    It is at this level that I have to throw everything I have and keep coming to this site to learn new tricks :) Think I am going to stay at regent for awhile till I am comfortable to win most of the time.
     
  13. Riccett

    Riccett Chieftain

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    Location:
    Grand Rapids MI
    Another tip that might help people....

    When I first started playing, I made the mistake of building a settler in all towns ASAP. <------------- Mistake!!!!!

    Let you citys get to size 4 or 5 before you pump out a settler.

    1. You will build them in fewer turns.

    2. With the higher population, you will generate more gold which decreases you research times.

    3. Similar to #2, you will generate more shields, letting you build improvements faster, build more units in a less amount of time, and micromanage more efficently.

    The only time that don't let my city get to size 4 or 5 before building a settler is if the AI is sending a settler towards a city site that I had my eye on. Sometimes I will just take the city from the AI, but sometimes you can't wait for that. If that city contains just about any type of resourse, I'll even go as far as to kill the AI's settler. A good example would be if that site contains the only sourse of Iron near me. In my mind, that site is a must have then, and if I must go to war for it, I will. Which brings up another good tip, IMO.

    Don't be afraid to go to war!!!! The AI is extremely stupid with it comes to envading you. It won't send a stack of 20 swordsmen towards one of you cities. You may see 20 swordsmen, but they will come in groups of 3 - 5 each. This changes a bit on the higher difficulty levels because the AI starts the game with more troops, but on the lower levels you will be just fine. It is not irregular at all for me to have a war before researching on writing is completed by somebody. Here is my goals in these situations.

    1. Kill the settler.
    2. Get some troops up to that site asap along with my settler.
    3. Production on that city starts with walls most of the time, so I can just use one defender and be confident that it will not fall.

    With 4 other cities at size 3 - 5, you should be able to pump out 2 turn warriors, and 3 turn Archers, Spearmen, and Horsemen inbetween you settlers. With these conditions, you will be just fine. Just remember, the AI is extremely dumb.

    Another tip is to build granaries in all cities you plan on pumping settlers out of. The faster you grow the faster you produce and expand. In cities that are too far away from the capital and corrupt to produce a efficent amount of shields and/or gold, don't be afraid to use the whip!!! Again, a granary will even help here, the faster you grow the faster you can whip a production.

    Will add some more stuff soon.
     
  14. Scop

    Scop Chieftain

    Joined:
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    I feel radaghast's pain, but I disagree. When I started Civ III, I used to get beat up SO badly on Chieftain. Now, coming from Civ I and II and playing them on King level pretty well, I thought there was something deftly wrong with Civ III for me to not be able to go up a level or two quickly, given how similar the game systems were (even in SMAC I could do that). My problems turned out to be these:

    • Settlers take 2 population now, and not 1... and also workers take 1. You can't forget that. Also, it means that trying to pump out settlers exclusively is often a bad idea, as you can often make 30 shields before you go from size 1 to 3 again. And of course, Riccett points out that if your city gets larger, it may be able to pump out settler faster. Finally, Granaries in settler producing cities are quite nice. I almost never build Granaries in Civ I and II, but now I can't live without them.
    • Trading techs with the AI is important! In Civ I and II, you never needed to, as evidenced by the fact that the trading system was so screwy :). When you get better you can eschew that on lower levels, but you may as well get used to trading now.
    • Exploration is important. You could get away with not exploring in Civ II, but here you really shouldn't try that. You should know where your rivals are and where all the good settling spots are.
    • Artillery aren't regular attacking units now. Oops, non-combat units can't attack? Doh, now my catapults are captured :(.

    When I learned all those lessons, I moved from Chieftain to Warlord pretty quickly. Then I languished a little on Warlord (still had some major issues with trying to build too many wonders and stuff; again, things you could get away with in Civ I and II) but blew past Regent, as the lessons I learned on Warlord pretty much got me up to speed.

    Now I find Chieftain ridiculously easy. Last game I played on Chieftain, I won in like 700 AD where I was the tech leader had maybe 6 middle age techs, hardly build any improvements (only ones for culture so I could get a domination win and not had to go invade the other continent across the ocean), and never put any commerce into taxes OR science the entire game. Getting tech myself wasn't a problem; I just didn't try because I didn't need tech; swordsmen, spearmen, and catapults did the job just fine.

    But even when I was playing badly, I still was industrial by a reasonable time (like say 1700AD). You just have to spend some effort on research and constructing research buildings. Seemed straightforward enough to me when I started Civ I...
     
  15. SuperDave9x19

    SuperDave9x19 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2002
    Messages:
    55
    Geez.

    No one mentioneed the extreme value of Privateers.

    Tip number whatever:


    Buy at least 4-6 Privateers before they can no longer be made. This way you can sail up and down coasts bombarding road improvements of your "allies" with ZERO repercussions. I have noticed that on 4 out of 5 games the AI doesn't use Naval Tactics well, so typically my Privateers last until I have Battleships.

    Nothing like a "no war" option to bombard a coastal road with a resource tile or managing to cut off an AI trade network.

    If you've never used Privateers much, DO IT. They make peace time exciting with a little "no consequence" warplay.

    I only play up to Regent Level, so this may not apply to non-newbs.
     
  16. Commander Bello

    Commander Bello Say No 2 Net Validations

    Joined:
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    Location:
    near Koblenz, Germany
    You should have mentioned that you're playing with modified rules!
    The Privateer has a defensive (0-range) bombardment only in C3C (at standard rules, about the conquests I don't know).
    So, your proposed way of bombing away your 'friends' roads doesn't work in the epic (unmodified) game.
     
  17. Commander Bello

    Commander Bello Say No 2 Net Validations

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    Sorry, radaghast,
    but I have to disagree to almost everything you wrote (at least to much of your major points). Please let me explain:

    #1. Chieftain may be fine for anyone being new to the concept of Civilisation, but for sure it is not a challenge too hard.

    #2. Three workers is not automatically better than having two of them. Check with the first worker (assumed that you switched on the extended command knobs) how long it will take to perform a certain task at the given tile. Re-check then with the second and the third (by moving the mouse pointer over the appropriate button). Often, you will find that worker1 will use 4 turns, worker2 will use 2 turns (as it adds up with no.1) but worker3 might use 2 turns as well (due to rounding errors). So, in that case you may move him one tile further and start building a road, or whatever.
    Don't mine the new roaded tile in any case! Often, it makes more sense to improve your trading net first (as roads will give you commerce = money). That money may be spent for research or just put to your treasury for later times. Furthermore, roads may allow your units to move quickly from the one edge of your empire to the other. Often, this decides about whether you or the AI might get a certain spot (think of the settlers, which have to move over there)

    #3. Although it boosts you enormously when you can chop forests, since ages (in matters of game patches) the "chopping factory" doesn't work anymore. For sure, it doesn't work at C3C, but doesn't at PTW 1.27, either.
    But, of course it is right to chop a forest which is already available. Chopping costs 4 turns (hmm, maybe you have to be industrious for that - otherwise it would be 6 turns) and gives you 10 shields, while mining takes 6 turns and then additional 10 turns to get the same amount of shields as the chopped forest.
    The 10 shields you've got from chopping may be put into the construction of a granary or a temple (remember, at Warlord level you will only have 3 content citizens at your city)

    #4. Correct, but have a look to what the other ones have explained in this thread about making use of units.

    #5. Wonders may be important! But not every wonder will be important in your situation! Naval wonders may be good on archipelago or island maps, but don't have to support you very much on Pangea maps. But, they add to your culture, and will give you some benefits, anyway.
    So, analyze your situation. Where am I, what plans do I have for the future, and does that wonder fit to my plans? If yes, do everything to get it. If no, let somebody else spent the shields for it.
    Especially, I would like to put everyones attention to the Mausoleum of Mausollos (seems to be the most underestimated wonder of C3C)! A great wonder, if you can construct it in your capital or in another highly productive town with access to fresh water! It makes additional three citizens content in that city, so that it should be able to grow to size 10 easily (think of the fresh water!) without the need to have to have a cathedral in there.

    #6. Completely wrong! (Sorry, no offense meant, just my personal view...)
    Try to get your own techs. Those you will have for sure, about what you might get from your neighbours, you only can guess. Your money doesn't help you anything while being in Despotism and being at war with the two civs you currently know about (Note: this depends very much on map size and number of opponents).
    Sell your techs, but have a look at their benefits, first! If you just started to construct the Great Library (e.g.), it may be advisable not to sell Literature to an opponent with productive cities. The whole thing could end up with him/her finishing it 2 turns in advance of you.
    If you've got the GL, you might give the buying/selling of techs another thought.

    #7. Build cities, where it makes sense to do it and in a way which fits to your favorite playing style (although I admit that you might be uncertain about your playing style, when being new to the game). Since without fresh water (rivers and lakes) or aqueducts your cities in the beginning are limited to size 6, for the very first cities an overlap of their productive areas may be acceptable, this may limit them when being somewhere in the middle of the Medieval Era.
    But make sure, that you don't put your cities to far away from each other! Think about the travel time from one city to the other (for instance, from your military center to the cities near the current border, or where your settlers are produced). Keep in mind, if their productive areas are not adjacent, you will loose tiles to use later on. Or, you put a new town in, but then you have the effect of overlapping productive areas.

    #8. To this, I agree. Sometimes it is annoying to have to move your workers by hand, but I never automate them, either.

    #9. Agreed.

    #10. Agreed.

    #11. Not agreed! :p (Just kidding! - Of course, do it! :goodjob: )

    #12. Agreed.

    #13. Not agreed. The decision about if and when a city should produce wealth depends on the situation of your empire.

    Ok, that's it for the moment. Again, no personal offense was meant by me commenting your suggestions.
    Almost everything is impacted very much by the map size, the map style, the number and attitude of your opponents.
    So, there almost is no "Do exactly this and you will benefit from it under all circumstances".
     
  18. SuperDave9x19

    SuperDave9x19 Chieftain

    Joined:
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    didn't realize that the basics of Privateer was modified on double Your Pleasure Mod. I need a rewind button. Thanx for pointing it out.

    Good thing too. I haven't played plain ol PTW since downloading the 1.5 version of DYP.
     
  19. The Economist

    The Economist Warlord

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2003
    Messages:
    102
    Location:
    New York
    Just a FYI- on the higher difficulty levels, there is a HUGE penalty towards your research, and a similar boost to the AI's research. What that means is that you will not be able to keep up with the AI, or even stay competitive unless you buy technologies, and then sell them to other countries. And also, you shouldn't hesitate to trade techs to other countries (especially in the ancient era), because if you don't trade it to them, then someone else will.

    So... if you really want to prepare yourself for the higher difficulty levels, you should force yourself to get virtually all your techs from the other countries- and to never count on the Great Library (as you're probably not going to be able to build it on the higher difficulty levels). In general, you almost have to focus a lot on your military on the higher difficulty levels. Unlike the lower difficulty levels, you can't simply get an era or two ahead of the competition and obliterate all opposition, instead, you have to tactfully use your units to maximum effect, and have enogh units in the right places to do what you need to do.

    Happy Civving, and hope I helped
     
  20. a4phantom

    a4phantom Perma-newbie

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    I'm about to start Regent, I don't know if I'll go higher. At what level does it become impossible to develop tech for yourself?
     

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