Norway First Look Video

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

Im pretty sure Norway will be a very powerful faith based civ, do not underestimate the Stave Church.

 

[Magil]

I can't actually watch the video right now, does the Longship actually replace the Galley? Seems like it'd be awkward if the Eureka bonus for Shipbuilding still requires you to build two Galleys when the Longship seems so much better.

 

[stealth_nsk]

My gut tells me that you might underestimate the importance of pillaging in CiVI.

1) I think it is safe to say that declaring war, pillaging and not capturing cities might get you way lower diplomatic hate than a "classic" conquest war. Allowing for some kinda constant bullying.

2) For science, considering what we saw so far, i dont think we will reach spectacular number in science per turn the way we could in CiV. So, coming in and pillaging some science, gold, culture might be a veeery interesting if the scaling is decent through the different eras (and it should be). Also, i seem to remember that you can pillage a district once for every building and then the district itself. So if pillaging a district twice in 2 turns nets something like 10 turns of your science because you dont have much adjacency bonus for you. It's very interesting.

So that bonus in pillaging might end up very useful in any game.


All of this is raw thinking until hands on product but since they announced unstacking of cities, i just cannot shake the feeling that we'll have many different ways to make a war worth our time.

easily knocking out enemy harbours could be quite an advantage I think.

Yes, and yes. And I didn't say the Norway is weak. But any winning path with it looks quite weird to me.

Also, the early ocean access is great for trade, but if you're going to pillage everyone to prevent them from winning, other civs will not want to trade with you. That's a very large disadvantage of pillaging strategy, actually - you weaken another civ, but it's still on the map and it just hates you.

 

[stealth_nsk]

I can't actually watch the video right now, does the Longship actually replace the Galley? Seems like it'd be awkward if the Eureka bonus for Shipbuilding still requires you to build two Galleys when the Longship seems so much better.

It probably replaces the Galley since it comes with the same tech.

 

[Snerk]

Link to video.

Might be a little underwhelming to play them if for some reason war with neighbouring civs isn't on the table as a viable strategy early/mid-game. But that might not be an issue.

 

[Uberfrog]

Also, the early ocean access is great for trade, but if you're going to pillage everyone to prevent them from winning, other civs will not want to trade with you. That's a very large disadvantage of pillaging strategy, actually - you weaken another civ, but it's still on the map and it just hates you.

You could also sail the high seas plundering any random city state you happen to meet . Also the early ocean-going embarked units will allow you to settle your very own Iceland/Greenland/Vinland and claim some territory early on. That's an aspect of the Norse that's been missing from past Civ games.

 

[DJ_Tanner]

You mean Norway's current flag? I didn't even think about the modern country of Norway because, well, this Norway obviously doesn't represent any other era besides the Viking era. But it's probably why they choose those colors yeah.

Completely disagree.

Spoiler :

Speaking of taking off his helmet though, I hope he throws his helmet away and storms off the lederscene if we destroy him just like how Bluetooth did in Civ V. I always loved that!

Really the only other option (it isn't like the Vikings, as a whole, have color attached to them, well other than purple I guess) would to use the colors of the coat of arms of the the Norwegian kings, red and gold, but for one that color scheme is a dime a dozen. Secondly the blue and red has been the Norway's for quite a long time. Seeing as that is still part of the current Norwegian culture, they still have a monarchy and the current king is a Harald even, it seems very fitting since there still is the possibility for multiple leaders (although I don't see Norway being high on that list).



Still flip Phil give em some braids in the beard, boom, viking.

 

[Guandao]

Norway definitely won't be the first civ I play, too militaristic for my tastes. Was Thunderbolt of the North an actual term? He could be a really annoying neighbor, like Harald Bluetooth was for me sometimes.

He does look similar to Philip II.

 

[DJ_Tanner]

Norway is really cool at pillaging tiles near coast. Either from ships directly or by sending berserkers a couple tiles away from the sea. And it could be devastating against civ not expecting attack from the sea. But if we speak about continents maps, standard size (the setup for which the game is usually balanced for), civilizations usually have their main part inland. If they aren't England, of course.

Well even if you don't come directly off the coast into their territory, you still have access to attack points that others don't have/don't realize. Of course you can't hit EVERY civ this way there are some civs that will bury deeper and deeper inward (like a Kongo searching for tree cover) but that is fitting as well. On a cont. map there will still be plenty of civs that are settled on/near a coast somewhere (as well as city states you can fatten up on if you like) or else they will be giving up great spots just out of fear of a Viking raid, which is a bonus all in itself.

 

[Paramecium]

Hm, giving Norway a second thought, I have still the opinion that is will be very weak in pangaea maps, very strong in archipelago (maybe op in that case ...)

But for continent maps it sounds really fun. You can easily explore the map and find the other civs on the other landmass. From that point on and especially with the long boat, you can declare war on those civs and keep that state until they can travel the oceans.
So you wont get a big warmonger penelaty and depending on your luck you can consistently pillage the cost of the second continent to get those boni, meanwhile doing whatever you want on your home continent.

So it comes down to how good pillaging will be. If you find a lot of districts on the coast and the AI will repair these everytime, you can get a huge boost. With the long boats, the AI wont even be able to punish you early on, you come and go as you want.
Quite fitting the viking style I have to say.

But in the end it all depends on how good pillaging will be and how you can use that to boost what kind of victory you like. Maybe you can get artifacts/great works out of theatre districts with pillaging?

It definitly sounds fun to play, but how good it will be Im still uncertain.

 

[Haggbart]

Yes it was but that's beside the point. Norway as a Faith civ just because some churches were built there once, and moreover, a Christian faith civ? Doesn't fly for me with Norway's pop culture image. It's like if the "megachurch" was a building for America just because of people like Joel Osteen and the history of the Puritans. The fact that a building exists in an area doesn't make it sufficient to be the focus of a civ to me. The stave church is a weird addition.

Just to ellaborate on the "just because some churches were built there once". Not only was the stave church very typical for medieval north-western Europe (there were probably around 1000 of them only in Norway), but almost all stave churches (28 of 30 IIRC) that are kept to this day are located in Norway.

 

[Ikael]

Hmmm, I am not too much sold on this civ:

Pros:

+ Ships being able to pillage land tiles makes naval warfare both meaningful and fun, specially on multiplayer games
+ Early deep ocean sailing makes for great colonization and exploration campaigns
+ Great, great background and leader design (even if the animation is still a little too stiff)

Cons:

- Stave church doesn't synergize well with any other trait of this civ
- Coastatal bonuses on a inland-centric game seems to weaken both this civ and the sea-located cities
- UA too much on the militaristic side of the things. I would have loved the possibility of a more science / welfare focused Norway with an alternative leader

 

[DJ_Tanner]

Norway definitely won't be the first civ I play, too militaristic for my tastes. Was Thunderbolt of the North an actual term? He could be a really annoying neighbor, like Harald Bluetooth was for me sometimes.

He does look similar to Philip II.

That was what Adam of Bremen had called him.

http://www.medievalists.net/2013/08/25/king-harald-sigurdsson-of-norway-in-history-and-legend/

 

[GoodSarmatian]

Might be a little underwhelming to play them if for some reason war with neighbouring civs isn't on the table as a viable strategy early/mid-game. But that might not be an issue.

Good thing you can settle and/or raid other continents so early.

 

[sonicmyst]

I am not entirely sold on constant pillaging and not capturing an enemy city just to gain resource. Raiding is good for slowing down the progress of the enemy but to use constant raids is not worth doing, I think. Constant raiding but not capturing means you are going to wait for the enemy to produce builder (if there is none available), and make them repair those raided tiles, then you have to do the raiding over again.

 

[stealth_nsk]

You could also sail the high seas plundering any random city state you happen to meet .

With the same diplomatic effect on the different scale - losing your initial envoy due to war.

Also the early ocean-going embarked units will allow you to settle your very own Iceland/Greenland/Vinland and claim some territory early on. That's an aspect of the Norse that's been missing from past Civ games.

Depends on the map script a lot. If there are islands with unique resources, it may be interesting. Otherwise - not so much.

Well even if you don't come directly off the coast into their territory, you still have access to attack points that others don't have/don't realize

Yes, but. If you pillage the land and later conquer them, you conquer pillaged cities, which are much less viable. If you don't pillage the land you reduce the Norway military bonuses to just disembarkation and, supposedly, strong Berserkers.

 

[criZp]

Hmmm, I am not too much sold on this civ:

Cons:

- Stave church doesn't synergize well with any other trait of this civ
- Coastatal bonuses on a inland-centric game seems to weaken both this civ and the sea-located cities
- UA too much on the militaristic side of the things. I would have loved the possibility of a more science / welfare focused Norway with an alternative leader

-IDK, stave church can help pump out missionaries which you can take over to the other continent early on, thus giving an edge in spreading religion on the other continent compared to any neighbors.
-Do we really know how valuable the harbors are? They might be important.
-Welfare focus does sound pretty boring to play with, to me at least

 

[Paramecium]

I am not entirely sold on constant pillaging and not capturing an enemy city just to gain resource. Raiding is good for slowing down the progress of the enemy but to use constant raids is not worth doing, I think. Constant raiding but not capturing means you are going to wait for the enemy to produce builder (if there is none available), and make them repair those raided tiles, then you have to do the raiding over again.

Im not sure if you mean that but builders dont need charges for repairing, just ending the turn. And I think at least on higher difficulties the AI will be able to repair a lot ...
Okay, until now it is still unclear how long it will need to repair a district, but we will see ...


To the topic pillaging vs conquering: If you begin very early to pillage the hell out of the other landmass in continent maptype, you dont have to think about conquering early on at all, not at least on that other continent. I think Norway can use that other landmass as their self restocking treasure chest.
So you can use those funds to concentrate on your home landmass and conquer stuff there especially with a massive berserker rush if you are the attacking one ...

 

[Craig_Sutter]

It might also be a promotion and all of Harald's ships get it for free.

Seems like a good promotion for a privateer.

 

[stealth_nsk]

-IDK, stave church can help pump out missionaries which you can take over to the other continent early on, thus giving an edge in spreading religion on the other continent compared to any neighbors.

Even if forests give Major bonus for Stave Church, it's still not that strong. It starts from Medieval and requires you to keep unimproved forests.Keep in mind - till you built the Stave Church, forests give only minor faith bonus, so Norway will be be behind in faith compared to civs who built their Holy Sites near Mountains (and I'm not speaking about Natural Wonders) for the first half of the game.

-Do we really know how valuable the harbors are? They might be important.

Anyone could pillage harbor with ships - it's on water. Norway could pillage land tiles on the coast. So, the harbors have nothing to do with Norway uniques.

-Welfare focus does sound pretty boring to play with, to me at least

This part I agree a bit. There are many civs focusing on building things. Some need to destroy.