[GS] Not generating any grievances

[blackcatatonic]

The only reason I'm posting this here and not the bugs forum is I'm not sure that it is a bug or just the Grievances system working poorly (mods, please move if needed).

In my current game (Hungary, King) I was Surprise DoW'd early by Tamar, who had 5 cities including Tblisi, giving me 150 Grievances against her. I captured two cities and her capital and seemed to receive the correct number of Grievances for this both when occupying the cities and then keeping them as part of the peace deal. I was 28 in the red with my two friendly Civs but it decayed pretty fast. So far, so working as expected.

Then much, much later I am at automatically at war with Genghis because he DoW'd my ally, Dido. This gives me 50 Grievances against him. I take two of his cities and accrue no Grievances with anyone (including him) which I though was a bit odd. And by no Grievances I mean zero, not that they didn't count because of the stack I had against him. I then proceeded to liberate a City State he had taken (fair enough not to get Grievances from that) and then three more of his cities - including his capital. Zero Grievances every time. As a test I tried making peace and keeping the cities. Still no Grievances.

The only thing I can think is that maybe everyone hates him because he took 4 city states, all of Greece and a few other cities. But surely he should have Grievances against me, on top of the standard "you occupy his city" modifier? Or can I just warmonger with impunity?

 

[Siptah]

So, if you are called in a war as an ally, you can take whatever you want? I wonder if there is a way to abuse this. It‘s hard to make another civ declare on your ally. To me, it seems to be a bug and I wonder if Dido gets the Grievances instead...

 

[blackcatatonic]

So, if you are called in a war as an ally, you can take whatever you want? I wonder if there is a way to abuse this. It‘s hard to make another civ declare on your ally. To me, it seems to be a bug and I wonder if Dido gets the Grievances instead...

I wondered that, too. It's kind of annoying we can't view the breakdown of AI-AI relationships.

 

[Cakeathon]

The only reason I'm posting this here and not the bugs forum is I'm not sure that it is a bug or just the Grievances system working poorly (mods, please move if needed).

In my current game (Hungary, King) I was Surprise DoW'd early by Tamar, who had 5 cities including Tblisi, giving me 150 Grievances against her. I captured two cities and her capital and seemed to receive the correct number of Grievances for this both when occupying the cities and then keeping them as part of the peace deal. I was 28 in the red with my two friendly Civs but it decayed pretty fast. So far, so working as expected.

Then much, much later I am at automatically at war with Genghis because he DoW'd my ally, Dido. This gives me 50 Grievances against him. I take two of his cities and accrue no Grievances with anyone (including him) which I though was a bit odd. And by no Grievances I mean zero, not that they didn't count because of the stack I had against him. I then proceeded to liberate a City State he had taken (fair enough not to get Grievances from that) and then three more of his cities - including his capital. Zero Grievances every time. As a test I tried making peace and keeping the cities. Still no Grievances.

The only thing I can think is that maybe everyone hates him because he took 4 city states, all of Greece and a few other cities. But surely he should have Grievances against me, on top of the standard "you occupy his city" modifier? Or can I just warmonger with impunity?

Always been this way, defensive pacts never triggered warmongering penalties even back in vanilla.

Will add it to my guide.
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/grievances-guide.642164/

As @Siptah mentioned, those are very hard to trigger on purpose. If you still have a save, could you try razing one of the cities and see if it generates grievances ? I wonder if it works like emergencies.

 

[AriochIV]

I'm experiencing the same thing: in my current game, I'm fighting Eleanor of England (she and Eleanor of France ironically joint attacked my ally Dido), taking cities and receiving no grievances for capturing cities (or for having them ceded at the end of the war; I did a test to check). It seems like a bug, or else there's something about the system they didn't explain properly.

edit: I just finished the war, taking 7/8 cities including her capital; no grievances.

Always been this way, defensive pacts never triggered warmongering penalties even back in vanilla.

You didn't get a warmongering penalty for the declaration of war, but you still got them for taking cities.

 

[Deggial]

It doesn't only work in wars as an ally, but also when an emergency is triggered. I was able to capture a city of the emergencie's target (NOT the city in question for the emergency) without accumulating any grievance.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Always been this way, defensive pacts never triggered warmongering penalties even back in vanilla.

Shouldn't this be considered bugged since then though? It's an obvious internal inconsistency. Defensive war taking cities = warmongering or grievance, but called as ally taking city = perfectly acceptable and nobody cares. Wat?

It undermines the functionality of the system as a whole.

 

[Cakeathon]

I'm experiencing the same thing: in my current game, I'm fighting Eleanor of England (she and Eleanor of France ironically joint attacked my ally Dido), taking cities and receiving no grievances for capturing cities (or for having them ceded at the end of the war; I did a test to check). It seems like a bug, or else there's something about the system they didn't explain properly.


You didn't get a warmongering penalty for the declaration of war, but you still got them for taking cities.

Might be right, was on forum from wrong game. The problem with alliances/emergency is it's very opaque how they work. There isn't even an entry in the code for the 0% capture / 300% modifiers the emergencies use. Wars triggered by alliances might use the same modifiers.

 

[Archon_Wing]

Oh, that's a bug.

Well, I'm clearly not a warmonger. Their capital was in the way of helping my ally.... on the other side of the world.