Nuclear Repercussions

[stratfiend]

Have a few questions about nukes so I don't screw this 10-hour game up. Only other time I've used them was on easier difficulties when winning was set in stone and I could afford to nuke whoever whenever.

Basically I'm sitting at about 1920 AD as the Greeks on an Earth map, starting in what would be Russia by our standards. 7 other civs, with the entire world split between Buddhism and Hinduism. I've managed to keep all the Hindu's, including Saladin with the largest army, Friendly with me, thus allowing me to whittle the Buddhists. I was locked against the northern sea, thus no way to explore the New World and therefore bent on continental conquest. But I ended up with no oil in my land and surrounded by allies with oil. I could have used my Open Border to invade Charlemagne to grab an oil spot, but he has a massive army of Curaissiers (spies spotted 60+, not something I wanted to mess with even with lots of MGs and Riflemen) and I'd be 12+ turns out on reinforcements.

With everyone else catching up to me in techs but no Oil, I went the Rocketry path and started building nukes. Zara is quickly surpassing me and has had no major war the entire game (secluded in what we would consider South Africa, friends with Charlemagne), so I needed to get to him. I finally decided to backstab Pacal for Oil (fortunately Saladin and Hannibal didn't mind), who quickly capitulated to Charlemagne, making a major headache for me. If he decided to attack me I would definitely have to instate a draft and lose my tech lead to Zara.

In any case I finally have Oil to begin rolling Bombers and Tanks, but I also have about a dozen nukes sitting around (didn't want to use them against Pacal so as not to reduce my standing with the other Hindu nations). As far as I can tell no one else has nukes. Few are even running MGs or SAMs, though I can't get eyes on Zara to see his equipment.

So my idea at this point is to nuke Charlemagne into oblivion, who is still relying mostly on Cuirassiers. By the time I've swept through some of his cities I'll have amassed plenty of Tanks/Bombers to keep the momentum and invade Zara, which should give me enough for a Domination Victory.

My question is the repercussions of nuking. In past games I've noticed a negative relation of "you nuked our friends", which is no big deal so long as none of my friends are their friends. So long as Saladin doesn't get mad, I'm in no real danger, and he hates Charlemagne anyway. Aside from mucking up the city, are there any other major complications to nuking opponents? I don't want to start throwing nukes around only to end up with all my allies mad at me.

 

[jwez11007]

As far as I can recall the nuking our friend demerit is the only serious diplo issue when using nukes. For some reason there's no "You annihilated an entire continent and are evil incarnate" demerit. Still nukes are the most powerful unit in the game...you can wipe out an advancd nation with little more than cavalry if you have lots of production and nukes unlocked. If you're looking for a domination win you probably already have a significant land and production lead, so I wouldn't worry too much about diplo hits or tech leads.

 

[stratfiend]

Ah, I guess I was expecting a more realistic take on nuclear warfare. Somehow I'd expect the rest of the world to get really mad and attack me before I turned the earth into a fallout infested wasteland.

I have a considerable lead, but as stated Saladin to my east maintains the largest army and I'd be pretty well screwed if he turned on me. To make matters worse he has nothing better to do really. He's already vasslized his other border civ, and doesn't seem to have much of a navy to invade the New World. If I were him, I'd invade me.

But if there's no diplo hit from nukes on a wider scale, then I guess I'll ignore Bombers and begin pushing into Africa with them. I'm just concerned that the city population damage will handicap the score required for Domination when I conquer them.

 

[ABHPage]

I though nukes would cause global warming ?
I remember I a game where I used nukes suddenly all my tiles would turn to desert gradually... Never happened to me in another game.

 

[jwez11007]

Ah, I guess I was expecting a more realistic take on nuclear warfare. Somehow I'd expect the rest of the world to get really mad and attack me before I turned the earth into a fallout infested wasteland.

I have a considerable lead, but as stated Saladin to my east maintains the largest army and I'd be pretty well screwed if he turned on me. To make matters worse he has nothing better to do really. He's already vasslized his other border civ, and doesn't seem to have much of a navy to invade the New World. If I were him, I'd invade me.

But if there's no diplo hit from nukes on a wider scale, then I guess I'll ignore Bombers and begin pushing into Africa with them. I'm just concerned that the city population damage will handicap the score required for Domination when I conquer them.

If the country is at least annoyed with your target they won't give a "you nuked our friend" demerit, but I think some will give you demerits if they're only cautious against your target. Not completely sure about this...

I sizable number of ICBMs before the AI gets SDI (tac nukes once they do)allows for the ability to take out any stack the AI can field through the end of the game. I once destroyed a civ that had mech infantry with a leftover stack of cavs with the help of nukes. So if your going domination with nukes I'ld pick the biggest target first so you can make the biggest bang while nukes are most effective.

Also the pop limit is usually easily gotten way before the land limit is reached...remember its a percentage pop limit, so as long as your primary cities aren't nuked your home cities will more then carry you in that category as the AI will lose a lot more pop.

I though nukes would cause global warming ?
I remember I a game where I used nukes suddenly all my tiles would turn to desert gradually... Never happened to me in another game.

Global warming will be accelerated by nukes although there is no way to avoid it in the end game (in BtS) because it also occurs when a minimum total unhealthiness level is reached. Besides it doesn't matter too much unless you don't have any corps because it spreads randomly to all tiles on the map influencing all civs equally. (a corps can make a city surrounded by ice a reasonable contributer to your empire)

 

[deathturnip]

Yes, for some reason nukes cause massive global warming. This is generally not considered a bad thing since everybody gets hit, so there is no advantage anywhere.

Because of all the massive inaccuracies, the largest side effect of nukes is greatness.

 

[stratfiend]

Saladin had -15 relations with Charlemagne when I nuked, as well as Hannibal having -6 against him. They were both Friendly with me at the time. Yet I still received "you nuked our friend" -1 hits to me per nuke dropped. Elizabeth (new colony civ) was also Friendly with me at the time and -2 with him, yet she didn't mind me nuking him. Not sure what the deal is with that. I wouldn't consider a -15 civ who I warred some 500 years with "our friend". To decided to go ahead and take the diplo hits with Saladin, while my first vassal gives me a buffer against Hannibal anyway. If they get mad I'll nuke them too.

Haven't noticed the global warming issue yet, but most of my land started brown anyway.

Sitting at about 1960 now, but only dropped a few nukes on Charlemagne to kill his stacks before finishing them off with my own. He's already offering capitulation, though I've only nabbed 4 of his small cities. I guess he realizes he doesn't stand a chance since he can't bribe Zara to attack me (though he has strong airforce that I'm not fully prepared for). Weighing my options on that. Forgot how much fun nukes are. Nothing like nuking a stack of Cavalry so large it doesn't fit all the names on your screen, then killing them all off with outdated Horse Archers and Knights. Will continue tomorrow. Longest game I've ever played.

Also, I see a "no nukes" option in the UN propositions. That doesn't sound good for me. How does the AI weigh in on that? Also, it says "no building nukes", not "no using nukes". Does that mean if mine are already built when it goes into effect that I can still use them?

 

[flashog]

As stated, nukes are very powerful especially pre-SDI. If the AI lacks Ecology, all the better since he will have no way of dealing with the fallout. If I feel like I've already won the game and there are no immediate threats like the AI nuking me right back, I usually don't hesitate turning the most powerful empire into a radioactive wasteland, and when he's nuked all the way back to ancient times, continue the rampage on whoever is next in line techwise.

 

[.pakje]

Also, I see a "no nukes" option in the UN propositions. That doesn't sound good for me. How does the AI weigh in on that? Also, it says "no building nukes", not "no using nukes". Does that mean if mine are already built when it goes into effect that I can still use them?

yea i think so

 

[stratfiend]

yea i think so

In that case, would it be beneficial for me to build the UN and pass that resolution since I already have a stockpile and apparently no one else does? As least I don't think they do. Haven't seen Fission in anybody's research so far.

 

[Ataxerxes]

In that case, would it be beneficial for me to build the UN and pass that resolution since I already have a stockpile and apparently no one else does? As least I don't think they do. Haven't seen Fission in anybody's research so far.

Yes, it would. Nothing like being the only country in the world with nuclear weapons. You could actually stockpile more and pass the resolution when they get close. I THINK they AI usually votes to ban nukes anyway if they don't have the technology.

 

[huerfanista]

Actually, in my last game I had a big tech lead and rush-bought a ton of nukes. I built the UN and offered the "ban nukes" resolution right away, and every civ in the game voted against it. I was the only one with techs to build nukes, BTW.

 

[stratfiend]

Note to self: Don't go nuclear if you can get oil next time. Dropped about a dozen nukes on Zara after he declared on me and starting building SS parts. I'm sitting at about -40 diplo with the entire world now. Everyone declared and started invading, so switched to space race.