nvm

I pretty much disagree, our industries were facing incredible pressure from newly industrializing nations abroad, and mainstream economic thought shows that propping up declining industries is a waste of resources.
It does not contradict to what I said. It was the choice your economists did which seemed to fit good in US ideology but failed to match reality in the long run.

And there is another reason why real sector started to contract - it was devoured by finance one. Since some point corporation started to invest not to real things but to stocks, derivatives, housing bubble and so on because it yielded more profit in short-run.

Calling the current economic climate a depression is premature, you know this.
Will "recession which will become depression over time" sound better? I just prefer to write short - "Depression".

There is nothing about US treasuries that makes them a ponzi scheme.
It is. Treasuries are used to cover repayments on issued earlier, over time US government needs to issue more and more, until they reach the point where there are not enough buyers.

The foundation for the EU is broader, larger population, less debt, more diversified economies.
This foundation is shaky. All these countries are very different and have different aims. The common ideology which unite them is hypothetical prosperity they will obtain together. As soon it is obvious that this goal is impossible to achieve, EU will break into smaller blocks because there is no political will to keep them together by force like in US, Russia, China or any other federalized enough state.

A sudden collapse won't happen is what I'm saying. A slow relative decline is far more likely. Relative because the rest of the world is catching up in development, as is expected and desired by most.
And this people call me "believer" :lol:. I've heared this a lot but reality just does not conform to this goodly views. There is already decline while "the rest of the world" not catching up but decline as well.
 
And there is another reason why real sector started to contract - it was devoured by finance one. Since some point corporation started to invest not to real things but to stocks, derivatives, housing bubble and so on because it yielded more profit in short-run.

This describes Britain very well.


All these countries are very different and have different aims. The common ideology which unite them is hypothetical prosperity they will obtain together. As soon it is obvious that this goal is impossible to achieve, EU will break into smaller blocks because there is no political will to keep them together by force like in US, Russia, China or any other federalized enough state.

Perhaps, but I am not sure. The politicians in US, Russia and China offer no real respect to small countries, once the delusions of first Blair and now the French President becomes more understood, the EU will likely survive as external front to other blocks.
 
Here is what mainstream economists were saying before and during Great Depression:

Spoiler :

"We will not have any more crashes in our time." - John Maynard Keynes in 1927

"I cannot help but raise a dissenting voice to statements that we are living in a fool’s paradise, and that prosperity in this country must necessarily diminish and recede in the near future." - E. H. H. Simmons, President, New York Stock Exchange, January 12, 1928

"There will be no interruption of our permanent prosperity." - Myron E. Forbes, President, Pierce Arrow Motor Car Co., January 12, 1928

"No Congress of the United States ever assembled, on surveying the state of the Union, has met with a more pleasing prospect than that which appears at the present time. In the domestic field there is tranquility and contentment…and the highest record of years of prosperity. In the foreign field there is peace, the goodwill which comes from mutual understanding." - Calvin Coolidge December 4, 1928

"There may be a recession in stock prices, but not anything in the nature of a crash." - Irving Fisher, leading U.S. economist , New York Times, Sept. 5, 1929

"Stock prices have reached what looks like a permanently high plateau. I do not feel there will be soon if ever a 50 or 60 point break from present levels, such as (bears) have predicted. I expect to see the stock market a good deal higher within a few months." - Irving Fisher, Ph.D. in economics, Oct. 17, 1929

"This crash is not going to have much effect on business." - Arthur Reynolds, Chairman of Continental Illinois Bank of Chicago, October 24, 1929

"There will be no repetition of the break of yesterday… I have no fear of another comparable decline." - Arthur W. Loasby (President of the Equitable Trust Company), quoted in NYT, Friday, October 25, 1929

"We feel that fundamentally Wall Street is sound, and that for people who can afford to pay for them outright, good stocks are cheap at these prices."
- Goodbody and Company market-letter quoted in The New York Times, Friday, October 25, 1929

"This is the time to buy stocks. This is the time to recall the words of the late J. P. Morgan… that any man who is bearish on America will go broke. Within a few days there is likely to be a bear panic rather than a bull panic. Many of the low prices as a result of this hysterical selling are not likely to be reached again in many years." - R. W. McNeel, market analyst, as quoted in the New York Herald Tribune, October 30, 1929

"Buying of sound, seasoned issues now will not be regretted" - E. A. Pearce market letter quoted in the New York Herald Tribune, October 30, 1929

"Some pretty intelligent people are now buying stocks… Unless we are to have a panic — which no one seriously believes, stocks have hit bottom." - R. W. McNeal, financial analyst in October 1929

"The decline is in paper values, not in tangible goods and services…America is now in the eighth year of prosperity as commercially defined. The former great periods of prosperity in America averaged eleven years. On this basis we now have three more years to go before the tailspin." - Stuart Chase (American economist and author), NY Herald Tribune, November 1, 1929

"Hysteria has now disappeared from Wall Street." - The Times of London, November 2, 1929

"The Wall Street crash doesn’t mean that there will be any general or serious business depression… For six years American business has been diverting a substantial part of its attention, its energies and its resources on the speculative game… Now that irrelevant, alien and hazardous adventure is over. Business has come home again, back to its job, providentially unscathed, sound in wind and limb, financially stronger than ever before." - Business Week, November 2, 1929

"…despite its severity, we believe that the slump in stock prices will prove an intermediate movement and not the precursor of a business depression such as would entail prolonged further liquidation…" - Harvard Economic Society (HES), November 2, 1929

"… a serious depression seems improbable; [we expect] recovery of business next spring, with further improvement in the fall." - HES, November 10, 1929

"The end of the decline of the Stock Market will probably not be long, only a few more days at most." - Irving Fisher, Professor of Economics at Yale University, November 14, 1929

"In most of the cities and towns of this country, this Wall Street panic will have no effect." - Paul Block (President of the Block newspaper chain), editorial, November 15, 1929

"Financial storm definitely passed." - Bernard Baruch, cablegram to Winston Churchill, November 15, 1929

"I see nothing in the present situation that is either menacing or warrants pessimism… I have every confidence that there will be a revival of activity in the spring, and that during this coming year the country will make steady progress." - Andrew W. Mellon, U.S. Secretary of the Treasury December 31, 1929

"I am convinced that through these measures we have reestablished confidence." - Herbert Hoover, December 1929

"[1930 will be] a splendid employment year." - U.S. Dept. of Labor, New Year’s Forecast, December 1929

"For the immediate future, at least, the outlook (stocks) is bright." - Irving Fisher, Ph.D. in Economics, in early 1930

"…there are indications that the severest phase of the recession is over…" - Harvard Economic Society (HES) Jan 18, 1930

"There is nothing in the situation to be disturbed about." - Secretary of the Treasury Andrew Mellon, Feb 1930

"The spring of 1930 marks the end of a period of grave concern…American business is steadily coming back to a normal level of prosperity." - Julius Barnes, head of Hoover’s National Business Survey Conference, Mar 16, 1930

"… the outlook continues favorable…" - HES Mar 29, 1930
"… the outlook is favorable…" - HES Apr 19, 1930

"While the crash only took place six months ago, I am convinced we have now passed through the worst — and with continued unity of effort we shall rapidly recover. There has been no significant bank or industrial failure. That danger, too, is safely behind us." - Herbert Hoover, President of the United States, May 1, 1930

"…by May or June the spring recovery forecast in our letters of last December and November should clearly be apparent…" - HES May 17, 1930

"Gentleman, you have come sixty days too late. The depression is over." - Herbert Hoover, responding to a delegation requesting a public works program to help speed the recovery, June 1930

"… irregular and conflicting movements of business should soon give way to a sustained recovery…" - HES June 28, 1930

"… the present depression has about spent its force…" - HES, Aug 30, 1930
"We are now near the end of the declining phase of the depression." - HES Nov 15, 1930

"Stabilization at [present] levels is clearly possible." - HES Oct 31, 1931

"All safe deposit boxes in banks or financial institutions have been sealed… and may only be opened in the presence of an agent of the I.R.S." - President F.D. Roosevelt, 1933
 
This shows just what is different between this recession and the Great Depression.
As far as I recall, no one was saying we'd hit the bottom in late 2008.
And learning from the past, governments have acted very swiftly to avoid a repeat performance.
 
I dunno how you calculated this date "late 2008". To me they are behaving just like now - "house prices will not fall, then "there will no be reccession", then "recession will not be serious", then "we have reach the bottom of the recession etc". Let's wait for California's bankruptcy and hear what will they say then.

I admit though that governments tried to do their best within current economics beliefs but those steps are not enough to avoid full scale crash (though it is possible to slowdown it).
 
I wonder if you can find similar sentiments for any other recessions? I have a feeling that politicians and economists will say things are looking up, no matter what is happening. It isn't stupidity, it is saving their career. In Australia's last recession, the prime minister here made the mistake of calling it "The recession we had to have."

Humorous note: In Australia, it has gone the other way. First "the recession will not be serious", then "there will be no recession", and now "(low end) housing prices will not fall".
This has been due to better than expected data over the past six months in almost all areas.
Indeed, for two straight months, the number of employed people has either been steady or has increased. Exports have decreased far less than expected. Our banks are more profitable now than at any previous time in their history.
 
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a5J9B_l2qURQ

June 22 (Bloomberg) -- The World Bank said the global recession this year will be deeper than it predicted in March and warned that a flight of capital from developing nations will swell the ranks of the poor and the unemployed.

The world economy will contract 2.9 percent, compared with a previous forecast of a 1.7 percent decline, the Washington- based lender said in a report today. Growth will be 2 percent next year, down from a 2.3 percent prediction, the bank said.

The bank, formed after World War II to fund health and development projects in poor countries, said that while a global recovery may begin this year, impoverished economies will lag behind rich nations in benefiting. The lender called for “bold” actions to hasten a rebound and said the prospects for securing aid for the poorest countries were “bleak.”

“The recovery is not going to be V-shaped,” said Alvin Liew, an economist at Standard Chartered Bank in Singapore. “We may see slower consumer demand over a prolonged period.”

The bank is more pessimistic than its sister organization, the International Monetary Fund. The IMF, which is forecasting a global contraction of only 1.3 percent this year and growth of 2.4 percent in 2010, said June 19 that it plans to revise estimates “modestly upward.”

The lender’s view also contrasts with that of billionaire hedge fund manager George Soros, who on June 20 told Polish television that the worst of the global financial crisis “is behind us.”

Bigger U.S. Contraction

U.S. stocks fell, extending losses from the first weekly decline for global equities in more than a month. The Standard & Poor’s 500 Index dropped 1.8 percent to 905.07 at 10:08 a.m. in New York after sinking 2.6 percent last week.

Crude oil fell for a second day and the price of copper fell to a three-week low.

The World Bank cut its forecast for the U.S. this year, calling for a 3 percent drop in the world’s biggest economy, after predicting a 2.4 percent contraction in March.

Japan’s gross domestic product will shrink 6.8 percent, more than the previous prediction of a 5.3 percent decline, the lender said. The euro area’s economy may shrink 4.5 percent, compared with the previous estimate of a 2.7 percent contraction.

Global trade may drop by 9.7 percent, compared with a March forecast of a 6.1 percent decline.

Unemployment

“Unemployment is on the rise, and poverty is set to increase in developing economies, bringing with it a substantial deterioration in conditions for the world’s poor,” the World Bank said. While the world is set to return to growth in the second half of 2009, a recovery will be subdued, the report said.

Reduced capital inflows from exports, remittances and foreign direct investment means “increasingly grave economic prospects” for developing nations, the lender said. After peaking at $1.2 trillion in 2007, inflows this year may fall to $363 billion, it said.

Reduced aid from advanced economies because of the economic crisis will also likely weigh on their finances, the bank said.

Economic growth in the developing world will be 1.2 percent, the World Bank said, scaling its outlook back from 2.1 percent. Developing nations in eastern Europe and Central Asia will be some of the hardest hit, the revised forecasts show. The region’s economy is likely to shrink 4.7 percent this year, down from the 2 percent decline projected in March.

China

China, which is the biggest of the developing economies, will keep pumping money into its financial system during this “critical” phase of its recovery, Premier Wen Jiabao said in a statement on the government’s Web site yesterday.

Efforts to revive domestic economies through stimulus spending should be coordinated internationally, the bank said.

“Any country that acts alone -- even the United States -- may reasonably fear that increases in government debt will cause investors to lose confidence in its fiscal sustainability and so withdraw financing,” the report said.

The U.S. is implementing a two-year, $787 billion stimulus package, while China is spending $585 billion.

Angel Gurria, secretary general of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, said in a Bloomberg Television interview today that the group’s updated forecast for the world economy, scheduled for release this week, “is not going to be worse than the last one.”

The OECD in March said the economy of its 30 members will contract 4.3 percent this year.

To contact the reporter on this story: Timothy R. Homan in Washington at thoman1@bloomberg.net

Maybe the Treasuries will see a dip now?
 
http://finance.yahoo.com/marketupdate/overview;_ylt=Ah0bFmPUetHZJ1xwBHb8u6O7YWsA?u

A lack of upbeat headlines has allowed participants to take control of the session. In turn, losses have been deep and broad-based, leaving stocks to test a major technical hurdle.

Yeah, without there being obvious goosing of second derivatives being "not as bad as abominable expectations" becoming leads for stories, stock market participants are finally in "control"

Reporting is atrocious.
 
And the market clearly didn't sink to its equilibrium point, it sank lower. We can tell because even before the recession is over and the economy returns to growth, the market has improved more than 20% from its low in many regions. Some market indicators are already at end 2008 levels.
Not if the mechanism that produces growth has been reduced or eliminated. And guess what, that's exactly what happened.

Right now, everybody running the banks is terrified of further losses, therefore they're not willing to take any risks. Well, here's the one bolt that holds the whole economy together: RISK IS REQUIRED FOR GROWTH. You can't create a new company without taking the risk that the company will fail. No creating of companies, no jobs. The equation simplifies further to: no risk no jobs; no jobs, no economy.

That's why the Dow Jones is hovering around 8,500 and refusing to move significantly. It spikes or dips a couple hundred points now and then, but it's been staying at about 8,500 for.....hell, so long I don't remember. Months. And it's going to stay there.

For a while, at least.

In the same way that 9/11 is now last week's news, in the same way that nobody worries about anthrax any more, in the same way that New Orleans is going to be rebuilt in the SAME PLACE: human beings have short memories. Pretty soon people will want more money and more jobs, and they will stop caring about the crash of 2008 and go right back to the old ways.
 
Not if the mechanism that produces growth has been reduced or eliminated. And guess what, that's exactly what happened.

Right now, everybody running the banks is terrified of further losses, therefore they're not willing to take any risks. Well, here's the one bolt that holds the whole economy together: RISK IS REQUIRED FOR GROWTH. You can't create a new company without taking the risk that the company will fail. No creating of companies, no jobs. The equation simplifies further to: no risk no jobs; no jobs, no economy.

That's why the Dow Jones is hovering around 8,500 and refusing to move significantly. It spikes or dips a couple hundred points now and then, but it's been staying at about 8,500 for.....hell, so long I don't remember. Months. And it's going to stay there.

For a while, at least.

In the same way that 9/11 is now last week's news, in the same way that nobody worries about anthrax any more, in the same way that New Orleans is going to be rebuilt in the SAME PLACE: human beings have short memories. Pretty soon people will want more money and more jobs, and they will stop caring about the crash of 2008 and go right back to the old ways.

Hard to compare, but the banks in Australia are no more risk averse than they ever were. In fact, I'd say they are more confident now than they ever were.

The Dow hasn't been hovering around 8500. Between mid January and the start of June, it it had only reached 8500 thrice, and those were all in early May.
The June average has been roughly 8600, the May average was roughly 8400, April was near 8000, while March was a period of significant growth in the DOW, but that had a median of near 7300.
 
Regional reports are trickling in...

Richmond Fed Survey

Manufacturing activity in the central Atlantic region advanced somewhat faster in June, according to the Richmond Fed's latest survey. Looking at the main components of activity, new orders expanded further, while factory shipments grew at a slightly slower rate and employment exhibited more moderate weakness. Other indicators were mostly positive. Backlogs increased for the first time since August 2007, while vendor delivery times stabilized and capacity utilization edged higher. In addition, manufacturers reported somewhat quicker growth in finished goods inventories.

Despite the recent increases in activity, manufacturers softened their outlook for the next six months. Contacts at more firms anticipated that their shipments, new orders, and capacity utilization would grow less rapidly in the months ahead.

Survey measures of prices were mixed in June. Raw materials prices grew at a slower pace in June, while finished goods prices grew more quickly. Over the next six months, respondents told us that they expected little change in growth in raw materials prices from what they had anticipated last month, but expected slightly faster growth in finished goods prices.

Current Activity

In June, the seasonally adjusted manufacturing index — our broadest measure of manufacturing activity — jumped to 6 from May's reading of 4. [ed. - positive readings indicate expansion; negative indicate contraction] Among the index's components, shipments lost seven points to 2, new orders rose six points to finish at 16, and the jobs index advanced six points to end at −6.

Other indicators also suggested somewhat stronger activity. The orders backlogs index turned positive, gaining 11 points to 8, while the measure for delivery times picked up four points to 0. The capacity utilization index edged higher, adding two points to 7, while our gauges for inventories were mixed. The finished goods inventory index moved up five points to 40, but the raw materials inventory index trimmed three points to 18.

Expectations

In our June survey, our contacts remained confident about their business prospects during the next six months, though the readings slipped somewhat from May levels. The index of expected shipments dropped five points to 23, the new orders indicator fell four points to end at 23, and the orders backlogs measure eased two points to 11. Moreover, both the capacity utilization and vendor delivery times expectations indexes declined 10 points to end at 17 and 3, respectively. Readings on planned capital expenditures turned positive — but just barely — as the index picked up two points in June to end at 1.

District manufacturers' hiring plans varied in June. The expected manufacturing employment index was little changed at 3, while the average workweek index advanced three points to end at 9. In contrast, the expected wage index posted a 10-point loss to 1.
 
http://business.theage.com.au/business/imf-raises-australian-growth-forecast-20090625-cx8u.html
IMF raises Australian growth forecast
June 25, 2009 - 10:15AM

The International Monetary Fund has raised Australia's economic growth forecasts but says additional policy stimulus and rate cuts may be necessary if the economic outlook softens further.

In preliminary staff findings released from Washington, the fund said Australia's economy will shrink 0.5 per cent this year, compared with a 1.4 per cent drop predicted in April. The economy will grow about 1.5 per cent next year, the IMF said, after previously predicting a 0.6 per cent gain.

This year's contraction will be driven by lower commodity prices, an increase in the jobless rate and ''weak confidence,'' the report said, with government spending likely to spur next year's rebound.

''The substantial fiscal and monetary stimulus in train, and some signs of recovery in consumer and business confidence, should help support domestic demand,'' the IMF said.

A separate report from the Paris-based Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development said Australia's economy will shrink 0.4 per cent in 2009 before growing 1.2 per cent in 2010. The OECD said Australia has room to cut interest rates further to revive an economy that may contract for the first time since 1991.

The IMF also said while Australia should consider further stimulus if the economy weakens, monetary policy should be ''the first line of defence'' and there is scope to reduce the cash rate further.

Rate outlook

The Reserve Bank cut its benchmark interest rate in April to 3 per cent, the lowest in half a century, helping a recovery in consumer and business confidence.

''The earlier reductions in the cash rate were appropriate as is the current stance of monetary policy,'' the IMF said. ''In view of the still fragile state of the global economy, the Reserve Bank should be more cautious than normal in tightening.''

The comments come as economists and traders debate whether the RBA has finished cutting borrowing costs after lowering the benchmark by 4.25 percentage points since September.

Investors expect the overnight cash rate target will be 60 basis points higher in 12 months, according to a Credit Suisse Group AG index based on interest-rate swaps.

The IMF said the need for ''unconventional monetary policy easing measures'' is unlikely.

'Highly uncertain'

The near-term economic outlook ''remains weak and highly uncertain'' amid falling income from commodity exports and rising unemployment, the IMF said. Government spending will lead the recovery in 2010, although growth will remain below potential for a number of years, it said.

''The substantial fiscal and monetary stimulus in train, and some signs of recovery in consumer and business confidence, should help support domestic demand,'' it said.

Australian business confidence jumped in May by the most in almost eight years, according to a National Australia Bank survey of more than 560 companies.

The government in February began distributing more than $12 billion in cash handouts to consumers. Treasurer Wayne Swan said last month he will spend another $22 billion on roads, railways, schools, hospitals and ports.

''We welcome the quick implementation of targeted and temporary fiscal stimulus,'' the IMF said.

"Output will likely remain below potential for a number of years, reducing core inflation," the IMF said in a statement.

It did not think Australia would have to resort to unconventional easing methods, which have been used by the central banks in the United States and Britain to restore growth, but suggested these might be worth thinking about.

"Unconventional monetary policy easing measures are unlikely to be needed. But it would be prudent to consider how such measures could be implemented if required," the IMF said.

Bloomberg, Reuters
 
The Reserve Bank cut its benchmark interest rate in April to 3 per cent, the lowest in half a century, helping a recovery in consumer and business confidence.

The Keynesian orthodoxy goes unquestioned. God help them.
 
The Keynesian orthodoxy goes unquestioned. God help them.

Well Australia is doing better than any other developed economy, and it is almost certainly Keynesian style stimulus that prevented negative growth for Q1 2009. So forgive us for doing something that appears to be working for us.
 
California May Be Forced to Issue I.O.U.’s (from here)

Spoiler :

LOS ANGELES — Signaling that California is slipping deeper into financial crisis, the state’s controller said Wednesday that his office would soon be forced to issue i.o.u.’s to scores of the state’s creditors, as lawmakers failed at their first attempt as a body to close the state’s multibillion-dollar shortfall.

If the i.o.u.’s are issued as threatened, it would be the first time since 1992 — when Gov. Pete Wilson paid roughly 100,000 state employees with them — that the warrants were used to hold over those to whom the state owed money. Before that budget crisis, California last issued the warrants during the Depression.

“Next Wednesday we start a fiscal year with a massively unbalanced spending plan and a cash shortfall not seen since the Great Depression,” the controller, John Chiang, said in a written statement. He added, “Unfortunately, the state’s inability to balance its checkbook will now mean short-changing taxpayers, local governments and small businesses.”

The issuing of the i.o.u.’s would reflect the state’s lack of cash flow and its Legislature’s inability to agree on a way to close the roughly $24 billion budget gap, as tax revenues have continued to fall.

On Wednesday, shortly after Mr. Chiang made his announcement, lawmakers rejected a plan presented by Democrats to close the gap through service cuts, tax increases and accounting maneuvers intended to push some of the problem into the next fiscal year.

Before even broaching the tax increase — which Republican legislators said they would not accept and Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, a Republican, vowed to veto — Democrats failed to get enough Republican votes in the Assembly or Senate for the first of 20 proposed budget bills, which contained $11 billion in cuts. After the vote, the Senate president, Darrell Steinberg, dismissed lawmakers until Thursday.

In February, the Legislature passed a budget for both the 2009 and 2010 fiscal years, but the legislation was dependent on the passage of several ballot propositions that were rejected by voters in May.

In response, Mr. Schwarzenegger has proposed $16 billion in cuts, largely to state programs for the poor, like the Healthy Family Program, the health insurance program that covers more than 900,000 children, and the state’s main welfare program, known as CalWorks, which provides temporary financial assistance to poor families. He also wants to borrow millions from local governments and release some prisoners early to save money.

Republican lawmakers are more or less on board with the governor other than on his plan to borrow from localities and release prisoners or lay off corrections officers.

Democrats wish to reduce the cuts, increase taxes on cigarettes, oil production and cars, and use some accounting maneuvers to get through the years.

The threat of i.o.u. warrants “underscores just how serious this situation is,” H. D. Palmer, the spokesman for the state’s Department of Finance, said in an e-mail message, “and why it’s absolutely critical for the Legislature to get a budget package to the governor in a form that he can sign — and do it in a matter of days.”

If all sides cannot come to an agreement by July 2, the unusual i.o.u’s will be issued to a plethora of creditors.

Borrowing money to cover the shortfalls, which is usually done as the Legislature bickers its ways to a budget this time of year, was made impossible this June by the banking crisis, and the Obama administration refused a request to back loans as well.
I.O.U's are
Wikipedia said:
An IOU is a usually informal document acknowledging debt. The term is derived from the opening phrase "I owe unto" and/or the pronunciation of "I owe you". An IOU differs from a promissory note in not specifying the time of repayment. IOUs usually specify the debtor, the amount owed, and sometimes the creditor. IOUs may be signed or carry distinguishing marks or designs to ensure authenticity. In some cases, IOUs may be redeemable for a specific product or service rather than a quantity of currency.
 
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aJdLYV2pdRXQ

une 25 (Bloomberg) -- The number of Americans filing claims for unemployment benefits unexpectedly rose last week, a reminder that companies will keep cutting staff even as the economy stabilizes.

Initial jobless claims rose by 15,000 to 627,000 in the week ended June 20, from a revised 612,000 the week before, the Labor Department said today in Washington. A report from the Commerce Department showed gross domestic product shrank at a 5.5 percent annual pace in the first three months of the year.

Recent data show some areas of the economy, such as housing and manufacturing, are seeing a smaller pace of decline, consistent with the Federal Reserve’s projection that the slump is “slowing.” Even so, companies are unlikely to hire until there are sustained gains in demand, meaning a recovery remains dependent on the effectiveness of government stimulus efforts.

“We’re in the prelude to the end of the recession,” said Stuart Hoffman, chief economist at PNC Financial Services Group Inc. in Pittsburgh, who accurately forecast the drop in GDP. “The stimulus will build steam, but it’ll be a pretty tepid recovery.” The loss of jobs “is one factor holding back consumer spending,” he said.

Stocks gained as higher oil prices triggered a rally in energy shares. The Standard & Poor’s 500 index was up 0.8 percent to 908.31 at 10:33 a.m. in New York. Treasury securities were little changed.

Unexpected Jump

Economists forecast claims would fall to 600,000, according to the median of 41 estimates in a Bloomberg News survey, from a previously reported 608,000 a week earlier.

The number of people collecting unemployment insurance increased by 29,000 in the prior week, to 6.74 million.

The four-week moving average of initial claims, a less volatile measure, rose to 617,250 from 616,750.

The jobless rate among people eligible for benefits held at 5 percent in the week ended June 13. The June 13 data coincides with the week Labor conducts its monthly payrolls survey, which the department is due to report on July 2.

Thirty-six states and territories reported a decrease in new claims for the week ended June 13, while 17 had an increase. Some states that don’t ordinarily report layoffs related to the end of the school year saw larger than expected job losses in education services, Labor said, declining to be specific.

Economy Shrinks

The contraction in first-quarter GDP, which was less than the 5.7 percent drop estimated last month, capped the worst six- month performance in half a century, the revised figures from Commerce showed. The world’s largest economy shrank at a 6.3 percent annual rate from October to December.

The biggest slump in business investment and inventories since records began in 1947 and the worst contraction in homebuilding since 1980 paced the decline last quarter.

The housing recession, now in its fourth year, is showing signs of abating. Builders broke ground on more homes than forecast in May, with single-family starts posting a third straight gain, Commerce figures showed earlier this month.

Business investment may also be on the mend. Orders for non-defense capital goods excluding aircraft, a proxy for future spending on new equipment, jumped in May by the most since 2005, Commerce reported yesterday.

Some companies are seeing signs of stabilization. Nucor Corp., the second-largest U.S. steelmaker, may boost plant operating rates to as much as 60 percent of capacity in the third quarter as customers use up inventories, Chief Executive Officer Dan DiMicco said.

Orders Improving

“We have seen distributors begin to order at a level consistent with real demand,” DiMicco said in a Bloomberg television interview yesterday in New York. Still, “we will not be happy, and our competitors will not be happy, until we are north of the 80 percent levels again,” he said.

Fed officials said in a statement at the end of their two- day meeting yesterday said “he pace of economic contraction is slowing.” Consumer spending “remains constrained by ongoing job losses, lower housing wealth and tight credit.”

At the same time, the slack in the economy means “inflation will remain subdued for some time,” they said.

Part of that slack is being created by the bankruptcies of General Motors Corp. and Chrysler LLC. Earl Hesterberg, chief executive officer of Group 1 Automotive Inc., the owner of 99 U.S. and U.K. dealerships, this month said car sales remain weak.

Auto Slump

“We now have eight or nine months of bouncing along the bottom,” Hesterberg said in an interview, referring to the industry. “Really we don’t see much difference from month to month.”

Still, other areas show signs of improvement this quarter. Retail sales rose in May for the first time in three months, government figures showed.

The economy may not yet need a second stimulus after the administration’s $787 billion initiative, which includes tax cuts and spending on infrastructure, President Barack Obama said at a White House news conference this week.

“I think it’s important to see how the economy evolves and how effective the first stimulus is,” the president said.

To contact the reporters on this story: Courtney Schlisserman in Washington cschlisserma@bloomberg.netShobhana Chandra in Washington schandra1@bloomberg.net

But but but, there were supposed to be green shoots...

Well the second derivative unemployment one needs some TLC
 
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