What does that have to do with this thread? I was talking about a very specific case in which it might be worth it to go for early religion, not about any type of play... and in advanced that there are totaly different rules that apply. I aren't very familiar with what strategies that are good in that kind of setting or not but it would be interesting if someone could start some thread on that topic with some good arguments for tech vs cities vs units etc.
Oasis -> early religion?
- Thread starter oyzar
- Start date
an early shrine is far from nuts
combined with sailing, it gives your religion the fastest spread = world dominating religion = easier diplo
very useful in cultural games
Giaur
War Dancer
For me 2 main benefits from an early religion:
1) You do not have to build monument in every city. If your cities are connected, religion spreads fast. But the distance matters I guess. One or two cities will be released from neccesity to build monuments. If some luck, you may flip AI's city by culture if AI settle nearby. Also it help in securing some land and connecting cities by rivers, coast.
2) Happiness.
1) You do not have to build monument in every city. If your cities are connected, religion spreads fast. But the distance matters I guess. One or two cities will be released from neccesity to build monuments. If some luck, you may flip AI's city by culture if AI settle nearby. Also it help in securing some land and connecting cities by rivers, coast.
2) Happiness.
InvisibleStalke
Emperor
I usually leave it - I hate delaying my initial worker. But if you do go for an early religion, I would place a lot of emphasis on getting an early prophet and shrine. The shrine increases the spread of the religion a lot. Its not such a big deal when you found a late religion since there will be a lot more religious competition and a lot of cities will already have a religion, but finding an early religion and being the only one to do so locally might mean that your religion can spread rapidly through all your neighbours. I have had games where founding hinduism meant half the world became Hindu because I had an early shrine.
Giaur
War Dancer
These 15gp are a myth, that works only on Pangea, I think. On standard world size it will be difficult too. And there are many turns between founding a religion and building a shrine. It changes also your strategy - you have to make connection to your rivals fast. Not the worst move, but early game there are other priorities. btw. It won't work on deity too, even if you founded religion and get greatprophet. It is doable in Advanced start, but AIs on deity spread religion very fast manually.
I was actually thinking more of geared towards multiplayer. There getting a religion is guaranteed with a financial oasis and still leave you time to get the worker techs with only a minimum of idle time.. And most maps i play there are rather large with loads of land... Humans don't tend to spread religion too much.. so shrine will let is spread allot faster.
If you play on one landmass you have to consider what level you are on. It can be very dangerous to take a religion at high levels as you will be much weaker earlier on than the AI. So that changes the cost/benefit analysis of the religion vs. expansion choice.
On a continents game, you could easily be the only religion and that could provide huge diplomatic advantages.
On a continents game, you could easily be the only religion and that could provide huge diplomatic advantages.
early religions are useful not just for the shrine money, but for diplomatic relationships as well. and shrine money also allows you to raise your science beaker which would increase your science output in ALL of your cities would it not?
Oyzar, you forgot about HC, he starts with myst and is financial. He is also industrious, so instead of a worker, get a head start on stonehenge for the GPPs. And a shrine is great. If your religion spreads to just one other civ that builds 5 cities and you build 5 cities, that is 10gpt, twice that of a settled GP. Once you have writing EVERYONE wants open borders. I would chop a monastery and whip missionaries like crazy before the borders start closing or someone grabs Theocracy. If you spread to every city in a civ and they don't have another religion in all there cities then they usually switch over to yours.
@Gaiur who said "These 15gp are a myth, that works only on Pangea, I think. On standard world size it will be difficult too." I play standard size continents or Big/small maps. There are usually between 25-30 cities on a continent. If you spread aggressively you can get 20+ cities with just missionaries from one city. even at just 20 cities when you build a marketplace that is 25gpt. That is usually good for a notch or two on the science slider, by the time Beauracracy rolls around you can have a GS for your academy in the capital. And more of that capital commerce can go into science since the shrine is paying the empires upkeep.
And on higher levels the Ai spreads religions very fast, even if they aren't the founder. Pop your religion in their capital before someone else does and they will spread it for you. Or you can just spread it to their cities that already have a religion.
I used to check my shrine gold and adjust the slider accordingly so that I don't spend it. That can keep me even with the Ai in techs with some shrewd trading and still build up a stock pilefor upgrades. The problem is....if you have a lump of cash....somebody is going to ask for it, so either give it to them or have them hate you 2000 years later because you didn't. So now I spend it as soon as I get it.
@Gaiur who said "These 15gp are a myth, that works only on Pangea, I think. On standard world size it will be difficult too." I play standard size continents or Big/small maps. There are usually between 25-30 cities on a continent. If you spread aggressively you can get 20+ cities with just missionaries from one city. even at just 20 cities when you build a marketplace that is 25gpt. That is usually good for a notch or two on the science slider, by the time Beauracracy rolls around you can have a GS for your academy in the capital. And more of that capital commerce can go into science since the shrine is paying the empires upkeep.
And on higher levels the Ai spreads religions very fast, even if they aren't the founder. Pop your religion in their capital before someone else does and they will spread it for you. Or you can just spread it to their cities that already have a religion.
I used to check my shrine gold and adjust the slider accordingly so that I don't spend it. That can keep me even with the Ai in techs with some shrewd trading and still build up a stock pilefor upgrades. The problem is....if you have a lump of cash....somebody is going to ask for it, so either give it to them or have them hate you 2000 years later because you didn't. So now I spend it as soon as I get it.
