Oh my goodness! Liberalism slingshot to...

How can you possibly start teching that quickly? I just don't understand how you are able to maintain such an empire so early on without courthouses, with a military that could take over so much land, and without falling back on tech? Especially on levels Noble & higher

blitzkrieg1980,

You answered your own question. I DID have courthouses and I DID have a military that could take over so much land. Praetorians are Overpowered almost as much as Quechuas.

The way I managed my empire's economy was a start from a Trade Route Economy into a Religious Economy and will eventually push into a Specialist Economy.

I start by making sure I grab the Great Lighthouse. Since most every city in Europe on the Earth Map is coastal, that's +2 Trade Routes in every city. That'll nearly triple the amount of Trade Routes I have available to my empire! From there I target Writing if I don't have it already. I then open boarders with everyone I'm not planning on warring in the near future for a slough of foreign trade routes. My next tech goal is Currency. I get Mathematics to tech to Currency, not Alphabet, because I want to get the Hanging Gardens up and running quickly, and usually I can trade Math for Alphabet, or even Aesthetics for Alphabet because I'll be going there shortly. Anyways, I'm off track.

After Currency, I usually take a look at my empire and decide how well I'm doing. If I really need it, I'll head to Code of Laws next for Courthouses. Organized means cheap Courthouses, so I can whip those fairly quickly.

After Code of Laws, I usually head up the culture branch (that's what I call it) for Music's free Great Artist.***Side Note: Usually by now I know who has which holy cities, and who has been spamming their religion around. At this point I started to prepare for my future religious economy, even though I didn't have any of the wonders necessary for it, I wanted to be prepared.*** I then research Meditation, Priesthood, and Monarchy and squeezed Monotheism for Organized Religion since I am focusing on spreading the soon-to-be-conquered religion around. Now I can bulb Theology. If I do found Christianity, great, if not, I really don't care. I want Theology for the AP for the production bonuses of my buildings. This began the start of the Religious Economy.

Construction and Calendar, came soon after, but I knew I needed Divine Right, and since I had Theology, I spent about 20 turns on Divine Right so I could get the Spiral Minaret fairly early. To be honest, it was probably in the late BCs (I think 70BC) that I finished the Spiral Minaret. So it wasn't like I had it in 2000BC, but I still think building that wonder pre AD on Prince as quite an accomplishment.

Next I picked up the missing Engineering, then I B-lined towards Banking for Mercantilism to move into a Specialist Economy. Soon after I'll be targeting Paper afterwards for the UoS, before I pick up Civil Service, too. :p

Lets recap:

Great Lighthouse + Currency + Open Boarders for a Trade Route Economy

Target the nearest and most spread holy city's religion, convert and spread the religion accordingly.

Focus on Theology, Divine Right, and Paper for the Religious Wonder Trifecta (AP, SM, UoS)

Banking = Mercantilism = tons of beakers with a huge empire.

And from there, it's pretty easy.


The one thing I didn't do, which I'm looking back on as a mistake was not utilizing the resource-trade-economy. I don't know if this is the real name for it, but that's what I'm going to call it. :lol: Because I had such a huge empire, and many of my resources were redundant, I could have easily afforded to sell them off for 1 gold each. With 30something other civs available at least a few of them could have had a few gold per turn to trade to me for one of my 12 cows or 8 wheat. While 1 gold per turn is not necessarily a whole lot, 1 gold per turn from 6 different civs for 250 turns is 1500 gold, which is a lot!

A little bit here, a little bit there, a bit over here, and a little bit from over there too adds up to a lot in the end.
 
Incredible! How did you manage to build so many wonders so quickly without the AI beating you while still keeping a huge army?
 
I didn't build the wonders quickly. In fact, many of them were built after 40, 50, 60, ever 80 turns. I was able to delay completing them because I had such a huge tech lead form the aforementioned economy setups. The only wonders I had to rush out were The Great Lighthouse, The Pyramids, and The Great Library. Everything else I took my time with. I lost out on The Great Wall, Stonehenge, The Temple of Artemus, and The Oracle :cry:. That's four early wonders that I had to sacrifice to move forward quickly. IIRC, I chopped the Hanging gardens, and the AP in the same city as soon as I could build them. Remember that the Organized Religion bonus applies to World Wonders when that World Wonder is a building, and all early World Wonders are considered buildings, so they receive the 25% bonus from production, chopping AND whipping.

This is why I consider Representation overpowered. I can make a size 4 city produce 40 science per turn, and it takes barely any time at all to get this city up and running. 40 science is an insane number of beakers to have that early on, and an early SE teamed with an early 4 trade routes per city TRE really propels your science.
 
Kiwi Tyrant,
Tick that on, and you're good to go. (FYI, I play BTS, but I chose the vanilla CivIV opening screen. I like the Baba Yetu song. :) )


I prefer Warlords Dum Dum Da.
 
kesshi, in your first post in this thread, there's a screenie in which you can see Suryavarman researching Mysticism in 840 AD
WTH is up with that????
 
wow, that's insane

my best shot was liberalism>physics
i was playing oranje, started with 2 grassland gem, and like 16 river tiles

it amazed me what warring can do O_O
 
kesshi, in your first post in this thread, there's a screenie in which you can see Suryavarman researching Mysticism in 840 AD
WTH is up with that????

Amask,

When I'm going for conquest, and if someone builds an odd out of the way city I won't chase them down until later. In that game I had already chased Suryavarman off the continent, and I think he was building on the Madigascar region. I figured, hey, why bother chasing him down for the piddley island? I let him live in fear of me the rest of the game. When you hurt someone really early, they usually can't recover.

Oh yeah, I don't take vassals. There's nothing in your empire worth letting you keep that I couldn't make better use of. The only time I'll even consider vassals is if I'm very close to winning via Conquest or Domination, and the extra 1 or 2 vassals will let me finish earlier. Other than that, vassals have caused me nothing but greif.
 
i just don't understand how a civ can not have one of the very first techs after 480 turns
unless you're playing with unusual settings, like "require complete kills", and they didn't actually have a city most of the time

i've never seen an AI missing one of the earliest techs, even if it was useless for them (worker techs for resources they don't have, fishing if they have no water, or the religious line if there are no religions anywhere around 'cause they were founded half way around the world), so I'm curious what the hell happened there
 
As fas as I've seen, the AI will not detour off its current project, no matter what. And sometimes they'll start on currency before Mysticism. This means if you catch them working currency, and destroy them back to the stone ages, they'll try to finish Currency first, then switch over to Mysticism (or maybe even Code of Laws, because they "need" a religion.) Do you know how long it takes to learn a tech like Currency or Code of Laws with only one non-developed city surrounded by jungle and no knowledge of Iron Working?
 
This is why I consider Representation overpowered. I can make a size 4 city produce 40 science per turn, and it takes barely any time at all to get this city up and running. 40 science is an insane number of beakers to have that early on, and an early SE teamed with an early 4 trade routes per city TRE really propels your science.

I wonder if it would make more sense for Representation to start weaker? 2 bonus beakers, and increase to 3 @ the Renaissance?
 
I got super conductors with Lib once with the Inca on Monarch in 1450 on a large inland sea map. The funny thing was though that my most my advanced unit was a macemen! My civilisation was uhh facsinating to say the least, we have labortories, electricity and refrigeration and understand physics, yet the most effective way the Incans could find to kill someone was with a bronze made mace (not counting airships lol).

Very good strategy in any case even if some things were stacked in your favour. I would have just gone for super conductors though so that you could spam labs everywhere for even more research. I wouldn't look forward to getting computers in that game, your economy will instantly crash lol...
 
I'm surprised that on monarch, the AI didn't try to kill your macemen with grenadiers or rifles. 1450's pretty late in a Noble game let alone a Monarch game!
 
Oh gosh! You lot here are so good at being warmongers. My nickname says it all. I've never been a warmonger. I want to move up to Chieftan when I've had four of each victory. But literally, getting that powerful... You see Survaryman researching Mysticism in 840 AD... what is wrong with that? I once encountered Lincoln in the Modern Era. You're researching Future Tech 4 in 1540 AD... That's expert! Getting Assembly Line for free from Liberalism... That is tremendous! But missing out on Archery, Horesback Riding and Astronomy? With praetorians? That is w-eird! Getting Feudalism with the Oracle... I am so surprised you held out that long! I complete my wonders quickly. I get The Pyramids and then Universal Suffrage (without Democracy). I kinda cheat by using that Worldbuilder and placing Great Merchants (lots of them) in cities that are both far away from their capital and me. Then I bunch them up and do trade mission.
 
I'm surprised that on monarch, the AI didn't try to kill your macemen with grenadiers or rifles. 1450's pretty late in a Noble game let alone a Monarch game!

Nah I had Gandhi on one side of me and a barely existant backwards Napoleon on the other and had already conquered Shaka and a good chunk of France. Oddly Gandhi just wasn't getting Education so I was able to keep putting off Lib, I usually get it fast for free religion and take astronomy or nationialism. I simply went into a trading frenzy after that + my uber research to quickly catch up to Gandhi's military techs...

I did not notice how backwards my army was in all honesty because I wasn't worried about a Friendly Gandhi and Napoleon was near non existant and the other civs weren't that interested in taking an Incan Fridge home :P. In hindsight though, it may not have been the best thing to do, that game was not the fastest Ive launched the spaceship on Monarch.
 
I guess I'm just plain missing the solid strategy you guys have in the early game. I have troubles staying in 2nd or 3rd in the tech race on Noble level!
 
i just don't understand how a civ can not have one of the very first techs after 480 turns

The only time this happens is when a civ has been attacked quite early in a game in combination with a delay in researching a certain technology.

For instance, I played the Earth 18 Civ map once (don't remember difficulty - monarch, maybe?) and Genghis Khan didn't have Mysticism until 1 AD. This might have had something to do with his INCREDIBLY low score....
 
I get The Pyramids and then Universal Suffrage (without Democracy).

Civ Diploma,

Here is one thing you're doing wrong. Universal Suffrage does two things. One, it makes towns produce one hammer. Two, it lets you money-rush buildings and units. Both of these are worthless to you in the early game. You do not have any towns, and you do not have the gold to spare to rush-buy things. You should be saving gold for random events (always keep a few hundred gold if possible) as well as use any extra gold to run at a deficit so you can tech faster.

Instead of building the Pyramids, try building 4 archers and 2 settlers. Getting two extra cities that early on can be very useful, and the Pyramids are far too expensive to simply waste (which is what you're doing with them.)
 
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