Ok, corporations? Pointless?

[lilnev]

I haven't found corps to be terribly useful for spacerace. If one came my way I suppose I'd use it where appropriate, but nothing special to base my gameplan around. For late domination wins though, Mining can be huge, along with one of the food corps. I haven't played for cultural since pre-BTS, so I can't speak to that.

peace,
lilnev

 

[NaZdReG]

I'm late to the debate but hermit I'm surprised by your doubt.

mining inc or creative constructions set you up for a snowball effect.

found in your wall street city to offset as much costs as possible. rapid spread across your empire and with forge+factory+power you are looking at a HUGE production boost.

well how best to leverage that.. hmm I think I'll smash my neighbor with 2x as many units as I could have managed otherwise.

as you take over territory you spread execs behind so that newly captured cities can get their forge,factory,power online and then produce either military or infrastructure.

mind you the more territory you control the greater the power of the corporation so you can snowball your overall production. you'll find your ability to spread your empire magnifying each and every turn as more and more cities fall.

usually by this point you've unlocked flight and so help them on the other continent. establish a beachhead and use your massive production to produce an airport in EVERY city just during the lag of the transports going over to the other continent.

now your magnified production should let you produce a tank every 3 turns or less per city. with unlimited airdrops into your new beachhead (send an exec with and get the corp founded or just rush buy the thing) you start dumping like 10+ tanks into the square per turn. not much the AI can really do to stop that.

NaZ

 

[futurehermit]

I like the sounds of that ^^^

 

[Esperologist]

I do tend to use some corporations. I avoid the mining corporation since I can have two or three others, or mining.
However, I'm not really a warmonger. I like going for the space ship or see if I can get the UN to work for me.
I have yet to get the UN to work for me, and often can't complete the spaceship before the turn limit.

The problem is, I can usually only spread one corporation through my empire before the game ends. I like building and researching everything... which is my downfall.
After researching my way to being able to establish corporations, I have to wait for the right great person since I leave the cities automated and the specialists randomize what great person I get. So I have to wait until one of my cities is nice enough to give me one.

What gets me, is I can put every Wonder I can to make a city give me an engineer, but it puts in four priests and suddenly that is the only type of great person I get.

I would hate to have to stop growth and production in a city just to get a great artist. Since my computer runs Civ4 slowly (takes a good 5 seconds to view a city, 2 to add/remove 1 item from queue), it already take me a long time to play a turn... add micromanaging the population of 4 cities. *sigh*

 

[Roxlimn]

Creative Corps + Sid's Sushi is my favorite combination. Aside from the absurdly simple culture wins it allows you to do, during war, it pops enemy borders exceedingly fast, allowing you breathing room. It's nice not having to worry about artillery shelling you that's moved from within enemy cities.

Mining Inc's concentrated (and potent!) production bonus is so massive it's unfair. Plunk it down anywhere you don't need culture. Heck, buy out Creative Corps from anywhere that doesn't need culture anymore!

 

[URSExelcior]

Nice to have?


Certainly.


Necessary?


No. Corporations are one of those "cool" features added into the game that don't serve much purpose (like the Espionage slider, f.e)

 

[mice]

Corporations are one of those "cool" features added into the game that don't serve much purpose

I dont agree with this. Mining inc and one of the foods is like having 1 1/2 civs to play with.

 

[futurehermit]

I'm playing a game right now with Sushi and Mining Inc. I can definitely see the benefits of having them, but I don't see them winning the game for me earlier. Maybe if I get more practice with them. Part of the problem was I was having a heckuva time generating a GE early enough to make Mining Inc useful.

 

[URSExelcior]

I dont agree with this. Mining inc and one of the foods is like having 1 1/2 civs to play with.

Sure, but by the time Corporations are available the game is already won or lost. They're nice to have, of course, I didn't say they were useless. Getting just the right GP late game and acctually spreading the corps is a bit tedious end-game... They're handy to have, but not necessary to win

 

[Phrederick]

I'm playing a game right now with Sushi and Mining Inc. I can definitely see the benefits of having them, but I don't see them winning the game for me earlier. Maybe if I get more practice with them. Part of the problem was I was having a heckuva time generating a GE early enough to make Mining Inc useful.

After I get the last scientist that I want for the liberalism race, I immediately go to all my cities with a shot at producing a GP, and run a GE there. I'll save a GE, because at that point there's no wonder worth burning a GE for, and I'd prefer saving him for Mining over settling or a golden age.

 

[futurehermit]

I decided to go for a "take-your-time" domination win in the game I mentioned playing as Napoleon. When I had 16 cities and a stable economy at ca 1200AD I knew the game was in the bag whichever way I went for it. With tense relations with Bismarck on my planet and 3 relatively backwards civs overseas, I figured I would enjoy a leisurely domination push while enjoying all the late game has to offer.

I founded Mining Inc and Sushi and have spread them to all my cities. I must say they do help a LOT getting new cities online and productive earlier. Thus I can see their clear advantage when conquering territory and thus their worth in domination games. Even in my own established cities they seem to be helping balloon my cities nice and large (gpfarm is over size 30, most others in their 20s) and my IW city is producing anything spaceship related in only a handful of turns.

So, yeah, I can see their value. Do they shave turns off a victory? I bet they would now after getting some more experience with them, but I think you have to plan them into your gameplan. I think getting the GE is toughest because in the game I mentioned I missed the GE 4-5 times in a row thus delaying Mining Inc significantly. Maybe pushing for IW and/or Factories/Industrial Parks earlyish to get access to more engineers would be a good idea. The GM is no big deal because caste system makes it pretty easy to get one and there is also economics if you play your cards right.

I can also see how sushi would help a lot for running a SE (obviously).

 

[Tonifranz]

Sure, but by the time Corporations are available the game is already won or lost. They're nice to have, of course, I didn't say they were useless. Getting just the right GP late game and acctually spreading the corps is a bit tedious end-game... They're handy to have, but not necessary to win

You can pretty much win a late game cultural win using corporations. In fact, I wouldn't have won my last few games with cultural victory if not for corporations. And my cultural slider was only about 10-20%, and my tech pace was normal.

Using corporations to win cultural victory, to me, is simply much better than building towns in your 3 cultural cities, research the tech to get cathedrals and free speech, then go 100% culture, hence zero science, and fall hopelessly backward, and pray that the more advanced civ won't crush my obsolete army with modern weapons.

So to me, corporations are necessary in winning cultural victory.

 

[SenhorDaGuerra]

yes but are they better than state property? State property is the daddy of all civics, and its value outweighs the need for any corporation, which are cool, ive used them a few times, but i find them a bit meh

most of my games are won or lost by the time corporations become useful anyway.

 

[Roxlimn]

futurehermit:

Having a GE when Corporations come online is almost a must. If you don't found Mining Inc for Space Race or Domination, you'll almost certainly find a use for it with Creative Constructions for beefing up cultural borders and for the Culture win.

I usually "create" a GE around that time by "maxxing" out Engineers in my IW city with IW, Factories, and Industrial Parks (if I still need the GE by then). If that doesn't work, I'll artificially boost my Engineer Points in key GP cities by building Factories and Industrial parks in all of them. Dumps my health into the ground like nothing, but totally worth it. Just run Environmentalism for a while until you get Refs.

Occasionally, I'll "save" a GE I didn't expect to get if it's near the time when Corporations come online.

 

[madscientist]

To followup on whether corps can help you win faster, I am going to relate briefly my current game.

Playing as Julius Caesar. On a continent with Tokugawa who I cut off with a well placed city (Thankyou Snaaty). Toku had room for only 2 cities, then he settled off continent. I took those cities with Prats, then proceeded to peacefully expand in the other direction, getting alot of well placed cities.

At this point I essentially have an isolated start since Toku will not open borders. I build Swan Palace and adopted FR very early.

Since Toku is so lovable, he refused open borders with the other 5 AIs who were actually within galley range of myself. Since they were Monty/Khmer/Isabell/Roosevelt/Justinian they all hated each other and were thus in open warfare, tanking their teching abilities. When they finally found me it was obvious I had an easy chance at a space race win (all were cautious because of the early FR and example that the Swan palace can be a very useful wonder). I had Rome going well for wonders, Antium as a GP farm (with GL), and Kyoto with some wonders and hermitage to force Toku's cultural borders.

So where does this fit in with faster corp wins? We know it takes time to tech and build the SS. I managed to get a GE and GM which I used for Mining Inc (3 times production of Creative constructions) and sid's. I spammed all religions post factory and mass building culture. It is amazing but looks like I will obtain a cultural victory now alot faster than the SS I was shooting for. Each city is 1/3 of the way to legendary and I have not used a GA, nor swung the culture slider up yet (waiting to tech mass media).

The +11 hammers with factories/powerplants allowed very fast temple/cathedral construction and sid's offers lot's of food for specialists and culture. This is helping me win faster both in game time and real time.

Corps rule!!!!!

 

[jray]

To followup on whether corps can help you win faster, I am going to relate briefly my current game.

Playing as Julius Caesar. On a continent with Tokugawa who I cut off with a well placed city (Thankyou Snaaty). Toku had room for only 2 cities, then he settled off continent. I took those cities with Prats, then proceeded to peacefully expand in the other direction, getting alot of well placed cities.

At this point I essentially have an isolated start since Toku will not open borders. I build Swan Palace and adopted FR very early.

Since Toku is so lovable, he refused open borders with the other 5 AIs who were actually within galley range of myself. Since they were Monty/Khmer/Isabell/Roosevelt/Justinian they all hated each other and were thus in open warfare, tanking their teching abilities. When they finally found me it was obvious I had an easy chance at a space race win (all were cautious because of the early FR and example that the Swan palace can be a very useful wonder). I had Rome going well for wonders, Antium as a GP farm (with GL), and Kyoto with some wonders and hermitage to force Toku's cultural borders.

So where does this fit in with faster corp wins? We know it takes time to tech and build the SS. I managed to get a GE and GM which I used for Mining Inc (3 times production of Creative constructions) and sid's. I spammed all religions post factory and mass building culture. It is amazing but looks like I will obtain a cultural victory now alot faster than the SS I was shooting for. Each city is 1/3 of the way to legendary and I have not used a GA, nor swung the culture slider up yet (waiting to tech mass media).

The +11 hammers with factories/powerplants allowed very fast temple/cathedral construction and sid's offers lot's of food for specialists and culture. This is helping me win faster both in game time and real time.

Corps rule!!!!!

What is a Swan Palace? A nickname for Shwedagon Paya perhaps?

 

[madscientist]

What is a Swan Palace? A nickname for Shwedagon Paya perhaps?

Yep. I never remember the exact name, sorry for the confusion.

 

[jray]

Yep. I never remember the exact name, sorry for the confusion.

No worries, I'll just add it in my old-timer translation dictionary under "Shields -> Hammers"

 

[popejubal]

I've found that Corporations are like having extra cities. More maintenance, but also more production and more profit.

As long as I can handle the extra population for health and happy points, then I'm happy to put the corporations in my cities because I'll get much more bang for my buck by spreading them to my established cities and I'll turn my conquests into profitable cities much sooner with the extra culture from Sid's Sushi to get my 2nd turn border pops (and 3-5th turn second border pops) as well as extra food to whip like there's no tomorrow in the cities where that is appropriate.

Sid's Sushi turns your Globe Theater Whip/Draft city into an insane production nightmare for your opponents.

 

[Roxlimn]

madscientist:

If you were gunning for a Cultural Win, Creative Constructions is a much better choice. No matter how much production Mining Inc gives you in excess of Creative Corps, it just won't match the cultural power that that Coporation gives you. Also, it doesn't conflict with Civ Jeweller's. The three together, once founded, can instantly give you a win-schedule of about 30 turns or less, depending on the religious and cultural state of your 3 target cities.