OK, how is this even possible?

[OldDude]

So I'm playing a Monarch game and I'm prepping to attack Caesar. I can see what he's got defending two cities. I have Rifling so I'm going in with Cavalry, Rifles, and a mix of Trebs and Cannons.

Two turns before I attack, I see his Musketmen are now Rifles...ok, he got to Rifling. I attack.

Two turns after I attack, all of a sudden his Rifles are Infantry. So in four turns he goes from not even having Rifling to having Assembly Line and his Musketmen go to Rifles and then Infantry.

How is this even possible? Nobody else had Assembly Line so he couldn't have traded for it. Plus he didn't have any techs that other AIs didn't already have.

 

[krikav]

Are you sure the AI didn't already have assembly line?
Sometimes they do get that before rifling.

Not sure whats up with the upgrading though... If that would have been the case I would have expected an upgrade muskets->infantry, without the intermediate step of riflemen.

 

[Fish Man]

So I'm playing a Monarch game and I'm prepping to attack Caesar. I can see what he's got defending two cities. I have Rifling so I'm going in with Cavalry, Rifles, and a mix of Trebs and Cannons.

Two turns before I attack, I see his Musketmen are now Rifles...ok, he got to Rifling. I attack.

Two turns after I attack, all of a sudden his Rifles are Infantry. So in four turns he goes from not even having Rifling to having Assembly Line and his Musketmen go to Rifles and then Infantry.

How is this even possible? Nobody else had Assembly Line so he couldn't have traded for it. Plus he didn't have any techs that other AIs didn't already have.

AIs sometimes get great people and bulb part or all of techs with it. He might've gotten a GE and used it to bulb some of AL, finishing it faster.

 

[AcaMetis]

AIs, in rare situations, can gift techs to the player. It doesn't happen often, I don't know exactly what's required for it to happen, but it can happen. I'm not sure if AIs gift pity techs to other AIs, and what's needed for that to happen if they can, but if they can what might have happened it that one AI gifted Caesar Rifling, and Caesar himself teched/bulbed Assembly Line four turns later.

I don't think that's what happened, as I don't recall ever seeing it, but it's a theory.

 

[Fippy]

Infs require Rifling too, so it's very possible that he traded for it while teching AL.
AIs will sometimes (and guys like Mansa often ) skip important techs like Rifling, their biggest weakness.
Watch them tech SM, Physics and Bio while being attacked and defending with Longbows..

 

[Fish Man]

Infs require Rifling too, so it's very possible that he traded for it while teching AL.
AIs will sometimes (and guys like Mansa often ) skip important techs like Rifling, their biggest weakness.
Watch them tech SM, Physics and Bio while being attacked and defending with Longbows..

Ah, yeah, the trading was probably what gave him rifling in the middle of going for AL.

In said AIs' defense, if you're going for a space win, you should probably tech rifling only after plastics and superconductors. But assuming that they follow any sort of pre-meditated master plan is probably thinking too highly of them .

 

[krikav]

One other possibility, the AI could have been almost done with AL when some other AI built the pentagon, the AI then left AL half-teched and swapped to rifling.

 

[OldDude]

Thanks for all of the great feedback everybody. I just thought it was kinda "fishy" that he went from Muskets to Infantry in 4 turns.

So I know that there is the Techs screen that shows what everybody "wants" and what everybody "can research" and what everybody will and will not trade. It doesn't say what everybody "has." Do you have to figure that out by looking at what they "can research"?

Thanks again.

 

[lymond]

So I know that there is the Techs screen that shows what everybody "wants" and what everybody "can research" and what everybody will and will not trade. It doesn't say what everybody "has." Do you have to figure that out by looking at what they "can research"?

Thanks again.

Hey OD - It's simply understanding the prerequisites of the techs they can research. This will become almost second nature the more you play, but you can use the tech tree for now if you are unsure. When I check the tech screen I know almost instantly what techs the AIs have.

Also, the tech screen does show you what techs they have that you don't have, whether they will trade it or not.

 

[OldDude]

Hey OD - It's simply understanding the prerequisites of the techs they can research. This will become almost second nature the more you play, but you can use the tech tree for now if you are unsure. When I check the tech screen I know almost instantly what techs the AIs have.

Also, the tech screen does show you what techs they have that you don't have, whether they will trade it or not.

Hey @lymond, good to hear from you.

I guess I never really looked at that closely so I'll have to do that. I always assumed the "will or won't trade" section meant to me and the other AIs, but I never took it as "there are the techs I have that you don't have."

Thanks!

 

[lymond]

Yep, that is very important info there. I check that stuff every turn and analyze trades based on that info.

 

[krikav]

Yes, just looking at the techscreen of what the AIs has and what they can research tells everything. But it took a long time for it to become second nature.
I remember earlier that I swapped alot back and forth between the tech-tree and the trading screen to figure out everything.

Still there are some things that catch me off guard.
Anyone else who gets a short burst of panic when they see a AI that is able to tech nationalism? When you are in the middle of a lib-race?
Have happend to me a few times, it's that stray path from divine right -> nationalism that confuses me. When I don't keep that in mind, my first reaction was that they then know philosophy.

 

[ArchGhost]

I'm not sure if AIs gift pity techs to other AIs

Yes. They also just give techs to each other past certain attitude thresholds, the reason lovefests are so ridiculous. AIs will often start teching something only to be given it just a couple turns later after they invest enough to devalue it for trade. The same mechanics allow for master-vassal pairs to swap techs for nothing (the master can always gift any tech, the vassal will gift techs at Friendly which they are quite likely to be with a flat +10 mod to attitude).

From the sounds of it with Caesar in the OP, he teched one of the two of AL or Rifling, and then was gifted the other soon after he started to tech it. If he traded AL for Rifling there wouldn't have been a delay in upgrading through Rifles > Infantry because you need Rifling for Infantry in the first place.

AIs also don't always upgrade their units, it's quite common to see them hanging on to far inferior units like Longbows even after they have Rifling, only to start upgrading them when they go into/are forced into war mode.

Anyone else who gets a short burst of panic when they see a AI that is able to tech nationalism? When you are in the middle of a lib-race?

Most often it just means they picked up Divine Right, all AIs seem to prioritize that much more than Philo in a general sense. I've found that while Nationalism is a very desired tech for the AI, they don't actually tech it so much en masse like Feudalism/Engineering -- one of them does and it gets traded around.

Personally what I find most annoying is when you see that Nationalism pop up in "can research" and then they do actually tech it, because if they are a militant AI they are almost certainly going MilTrad next meaning faster cuir proliferation for everybody else. which is a pain when they start mass upgrading all the Knights they inevitably have. Have been in many games with Ragnar where he did that.

I've lately taken to holding Music monopoly for as long as possible for this very reason, it's nothing for any AI to suddenly get Gunpowder...they favor Guilds so heavily and GP gets traded around like candy as soon as it shows up.