Old Swiss Confederacy (BtS 3.19; V1.0)

[kochman]

Yes, it was just a joke.
I am just going to call it the pikeman when I change it.

 

[Manifold]

why again not "swiss" pikeman, like the other UU

 

[kochman]

Because the computer will turn it into "Swiss Swiss Pikeman", as it naturally adds the national adjective...

 

[Manifold]

never noticed. what is the game name of the german tank?

 

[kochman]

Panzer

 

[Manifold]

sounds like Gewalthaufen

 

[kochman]

Nah, in english most people pronounced it how you would pronounce the word "panser" instead of how we would pronounce the word "Pantzer"

Pikemen is the answer...
Now, before I change that name and tone the unit down a bit, is there anything else about the OSC that I need to change? UB too powerful?

Manifold, when will your William Tell be done, so I can incorporate that at the same time?

 

[AbsintheRed]

I like the UB the way it is, but I think the UU is overpowered here too
If you want it to have increased base strength, don't add so huge bonuses against other unit types

 

[kochman]

Noted.

So, all I need now is for someone to explain to me exactly how combat bonuses are calculated.

 

[AbsintheRed]

Yeah, I saw your question on the other thread
But unfortunatly I'm not totally sure

My best guess is, that mechaerik wanted to write if there are bonuses for both the attacking and defending unit, than the attacker's bonus comes down from the defender bonus
What I'm sure of, is that it can't come down from the defender's strength like you wrote on the Goth thread, because that way there could be -100% from the defender (which would mean 0 strength)...

It's probably hard without examples, so here they are:
attacker 6+50%, defender 4+50% - 6 vs 4 (4+50%-50%)
attacker 6+100%, defender 4+50% - 9 (6+50%) vs 4 (4+50%-50%)
attacker 6, defender 4+50% - 6 vs 6 (4+50%)
attacker 6+50%, defender 4 - 9 (6+50%) vs 4

Basically the main point is, that there can't be negative bonuses to either unit's strength, otherwise I sticked to mechaerik's way

 

[kochman]

But, are you sure?
I posted the question in the general forum... there are enough people here who can read XML tagging like Neo reads the Matrix that it shouldn't be long until the 100% accurate answer comes out.

 

[Manifold]

Pikemen is the answer...

you take the rap for this boring word

when will your William Tell be done, so I can incorporate that at the same time?

he is still in work. i hope he will not draw down your civ, because he become very very basic

also i have a problem. i gave his hat two feathers with nifskope, but they are not shown in game if any prof read this and will out of mercy not immediately make a new LH, he could explane it to me, please

 

[kochman]

OK, the "pikeman" will be weakened, now that I understand the math involved in combat. I will not actually name him pikeman, but rather the word for mercenary that manifold suggested.

It is intended to be stronger than the landknecht, because they were. They were the top military in Europe UNTIL gunpowder started shredding them.

So, I am weakening it, but not incredibly!
New stats:
7, +60% vs melee, + 75% vs mounted, +100% vs pikemen (it must beat the Landsknecht!)

Example combats:
Swiss attacking Landsknecht
7 vs 6(2)/2
7 vs 6 - Swiss Pike wins

Swiss defending versus Curaisser
12 vs 7*.75
12 vs 12.25 - Swiss Pike wins a close one
Pikeman defending versus Curaisser
12 vs 6(2)
12 vs 12 - even match

Swiss attacking Maceman
7 vs 8/1.6
7 vs 5 - Swiss Pike wins
Landknecht attacking Maceman
6 vs 8/2
6 vs 4 - LK wins

Swiss attacking Longbow
7 vs 6 - Swiss Pike wins
Swiss attacking Longbow in forest
7 vs 6 * 1.5
7 vs 9 - Longbow wins handily
Swiss attacking Longbow fortified in plains
7 vs 6 * 1.25
7 vs 7.5 - Longbow wins


Before I make this change... any objections?

 

[AbsintheRed]

What's the landknecht's stats?

 

[AbsintheRed]

hm, if i understand this right
in the line swiss vs landknecht
u forget the +60% bonus vs melee

This means +30% vs pikeman is enough to beat them, you don't need 100%

EDIT: Following your lines, I would give +75% vs mounted, +50% vs melee, and +50% vs pikeman

 

[Manifold]

Before I make this change... any objections?

UB: good idea

UU: are they adequate expensive (because small nation and so)?
-(maybe) last suggestion for the unit: freedom fighter

 

[kochman]

hm, if i understand this right
in the line swiss vs landknecht
u forget the +60% bonus vs melee

+50% vs pikeman is enough to beat them

Ah, yes, you are correct! It would add both. Good call.
I want it to win, but not at 99% odds!

Ok, so, to revamp vs "pikemen"...
7 Strength; +60% vs melee, +75% vs mounted; +additional 40% vs pikemen
Swiss vs Landknecht
7 vs 6(2)/ 1 + .6, +.4
7 vs 12/2
7 vs 6 - Swiss wins

 

[AbsintheRed]

Cool
I edited my post since, and suggested +50% vs melee and +50% vs pikeman, but +60 and +40 is not a big difference.
I usually like it with "more round" numbers, but that extra 10% against other melee doesn't matter that much.
Either way, I think you are good to go with the changes

 

[kochman]

UU: are they adequate expensive (because small nation and so)?

Good idea, I will make it cost a bit more too...

 

[The Capo]

On the LH: Either the feather is flipped around the wrong way (which doesn't look like the case) or it isn't attached to head bone. If both of those diagnoses are wrong post the file in Ekmek's tutorial thread and I, or someone else, will take a look at it.