Olmecs not a major civ

[Kupe Navigator]

I would vote for Osiris leading Egypt in Civilization VII

No one of that!
Shame on you!

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

The only way I see Olmecs getting in is in some sort of Mythological spinoff game in which Firaxis could have creative liberties for the different civs.

That way maybe Osiris, Zeus and Thor could also get in. Talking colossal head leader?

It's too hard to make a full fledged civilization like the Olmecs be historical when it comes to the depth of creating civilizations for an official game.

 

[Henri Christophe]

The only way I see Olmecs getting in is in some sort of Mythological spinoff game in which Firaxis could have creative liberties for the different civs.

That way maybe Osiris, Zeus and Thor could also get in. Talking colossal head leader?

It's too hard to make a full fledged civilization like the Olmecs be historical when it comes to the depth of creating civilizations for an official game.

I still saying, why not do the Olmec-Xicalanca 3Deer speaking maya language?
I'm just fascinated about this guy.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I still saying, why not do the Olmec-Xicalanca 3Deer speaking maya language?
I'm just fascinated about this guy.

Because it wouldn't have anything to do with the Olmecs.

 

[Kupe Navigator]

I still saying, why not do the Olmec-Xicalanca 3Deer speaking maya language?
I'm just fascinated about this guy.

What do you know about him? That he is black? Enough about him. You are beating a dead horse.

 

[The Civs 6]

What do you know about him? That he is black? Enough about him. You are beating a dead horse.

This is the same guy spouting the discredited "Egyptians are subsaharan Africans" theory, so that should show you his agenda.

 

[Henri Christophe]

What do you know about him? That he is black? Enough about him. You are beating a dead horse.

As far I know, Olmec and Xicalanca people mix up and move to live in Teotihuacan, when it fall they move out to Cacaxtla where 3Deer was king, I don't know nothing about his reign, but it is the newest Olmec leader avaiable (and maybe the only one). And yes, he is black and proud of it.

This is the same guy spouting the discredited "Egyptians are subsaharan Africans" theory, so that should show you his agenda.

This isn't the thereat right to speak about Egyptians, but in old old kingdom they are Black and start to become whiter after Assyria invasion

 

[The Civs 6]

As far I know, Olmec and Xicalanca people mix up and move to live in Teotihuacan, when it fall they move out to Cacaxtla where 3Deer was king, I don't know nothing about his reign, but it is the newest Olmec leader avaiable (and maybe the only one). And yes, he is black and proud of it.

This isn't the thereat right to speak about Egyptians, but in old old kingdom they are Black and start to become whiter after Assyria invasion

It just shows that you have a political agenda, that you uphold over basic facts, and that is the foundation for all the nonsense you post

 

[Henri Christophe]

It just shows that you have a political agenda, that you uphold over basic facts, and that is the foundation for all the nonsense you post

I need to admit, I have an Agenda of racial equality.

What do you think? This game need more racial equality or it is already good enought?

Moderator Action: PDMA removed. leif
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Browd]

Moderator Action: Racial equality is off-topic for this thread. For the time being (until the thread inevitably gets closed because people cannot behave themselves), you can discuss diversity in Civ 6 in this thread.

 

[The Civs 6]

I need to admit, I have an Agenda of racial equality. I made a threat just to speak about it but is moved out to Colesseum.

What do you think? This game need more racial equality or it is already good enought?

I don't think marginal civilizations that could fit in a baseball stadium should be put into the game in the interest of any agenda, including social justice.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

I've blown some serious time trying to find enough "Civ Facts" to make an Olmec Civilization: stuff like Leaders and a City List.

Bluntly, neither exist.

The Olmec language has some decendants in the area of the Yucatan today (the Zoque and Mixe families of dialects), but they are far removed from the existing samples of Olmec glyphs, and the only 'dictionary' of Epi-Olmec (reconstructed Olmec, so Scientific Wild-A** Guessing) has less than 1000 words. I have gone through that list, and archeological reports and articles on the glyphs that have been found, and for a City List we have exactly two possible names:
1. an Aztec site called Teayok, meaning "Turtle on Stone" in Nahuatl which may have been built on an original Olmec settlement with a carved turtle (a frequent symbol in Mesoamerica) on a stele. In Epi-Olmec that would be Tukipaki
2. The Olmec archeological site called Tres Zapotes, meaning Three Sapodilla Trees in Spanish: in one of the modern Olmec-related Zoque dialects that comes out as Tuguna

And, of course, neither of those may be correct at all, because we have no idea whether the Olmecs cared that the one place had three, three hundred or no Sapodilla Trees or that someone carved a turtle at the other.

So, a Civ-game Olmec Civilization will have no historical City List and no historical Leaders, and any mythical/semi-mythical Leader they slap together will have a diplomatic vocabulary of about 900 words which we can only guess the pronunciation of. Good luck with that.

I might add that the new Humankind game has an Olmec Faction, but they don't have named Leaders or anybody trying to speak the original language. Even so, the Olmec city list appears to be all the modern Spanish archeological Olmec sites, so is utterly fictional.

And in the Lucy OpenDev of Humankind that is running now I played the Olmecs and yes, renamed my capital Tukipaki - it's not much, but it's all we got . . .

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

I've blown some serious time trying to find enough "Civ Facts" to make an Olmec Civilization: stuff like Leaders and a City List.

Bluntly, neither exist.

The Olmec language has some decendants in the area of the Yucatan today (the Zoque and Mixe families of dialects), but they are far removed from the existing samples of Olmec glyphs, and the only 'dictionary' of Epi-Olmec (reconstructed Olmec, so Scientific Wild-A** Guessing) has less than 1000 words. I have gone through that list, and archeological reports and articles on the glyphs that have been found, and for a City List we have exactly two possible names:
1. an Aztec site called Teayok, meaning "Turtle on Stone" in Nahuatl which may have been built on an original Olmec settlement with a carved turtle (a frequent symbol in Mesoamerica) on a stele. In Epi-Olmec that would be Tukipaki
2. The Olmec archeological site called Tres Zapotes, meaning Three Sapodilla Trees in Spanish: in one of the modern Olmec-related Zoque dialects that comes out as Tuguna

And, of course, neither of those may be correct at all, because we have no idea whether the Olmecs cared that the one place had three, three hundred or no Sapodilla Trees or that someone carved a turtle at the other.

So, a Civ-game Olmec Civilization will have no historical City List and no historical Leaders, and any mythical/semi-mythical Leader they slap together will have a diplomatic vocabulary of about 900 words which we can only guess the pronunciation of. Good luck with that.

I might add that the new Humankind game has an Olmec Faction, but they don't have named Leaders or anybody trying to speak the original language. Even so, the Olmec city list appears to be all the modern Spanish archeological Olmec sites, so is utterly fictional.

And in the Lucy OpenDev of Humankind that is running now I played the Olmecs and yes, renamed my capital Tukipaki - it's not much, but it's all we got . . .

At least they got a City-State.

 

[Evie]

As @Kupe Navigator said, Quetzalcoatl is a Deity and not a semi-mythical legend. We cannot confirm if Dido or Gilgamesh existed, but we see them as historical Leaders with myths being piled onto them.

That may not be STRICTLY true. There is reason to believe there,were two distinct figures known as Quetzalcoatl, who have often been conflated especially in Colonial times - Quetzalcoatl the Feathered Serpent, equivalent to Mayan Kukulcan, and Cē Ācatl Topiltzin Quetzalcoatl, the Toltec ruler, who is generally a mythological human more in line with Dido or Gilgamesh, and whose alleged reign comes long after the first indications of the worship of the deity (the feathered serpent worship goes back to Olmec times!)

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

That may not be STRICTLY true. There is reason to believe there,were two distinct figures known as Quetzalcoatl, who have often been conflated especially in Colonial times - Quetzalcoatl the Feathered Serpent, equivalent to Mayan Kukulcan, and Cē Ācatl Topiltzin Quetzalcoatl, the Toltec ruler, who is generally a mythological human more in line with Dido or Gilgamesh, and whose alleged reign comes long after the first indications of the worship of the deity (the feathered serpent worship goes back to Olmec times!)

More precisely, the earliest depiction of the Feathered Serpent goes back to an Olmec stele dated to around 900 BCE, but the earliest use of the symbol as specifically religious is from about 900 years later in Teotihuacan. We assume from the later wide-spread use of the symbol as religious throughout Meso-America that it was used the same way by the Olmecs, but we don't have any direct (decipherable) written proof, just a carving. - And of course, we have no idea what the Olmecs called the symbol!

 

[Henri Christophe]

The Olmec language has some decendants in the area of the Yucatan today (the Zoque and Mixe families of dialects),

We can use theses dialects to do an Olmec Civilization?

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

We can use theses dialects to do an Olmec Civilization?

Okay, we have potential voice actors... How do we get to them avoiding the jaguars, poisonous frogs, caimans, etc.?

 

[Henri Christophe]

Okay, we have potential voice actors... How do we get to them avoiding the jaguars, poisonous frogs, caimans, etc.?

kill they all with Atlalist

 

[Patine]

And yes, he is black and proud of it.

Or, FAR more likely, in fact, almost certainly, having his glyphic portrait drawn with black dye for reasons we don't know because not enough is recorded about the Olmec. Something you keep completely ignoring, because the utterly improbable personally pleases you better and you're trying to insist it into existence.

 

[Henri Christophe]

Or, FAR more likely, in fact, almost certainly, having his glyphic portrait drawn with black dye for reasons we don't know because not enough is recorded about the Olmec. Something you keep completely ignoring, because the utterly improbable personally pleases you better and you're trying to insist it into existence.

When I was in Cacaxtla they show me this paintig, I believe this is very explanatory what is happening.
On left side there is a white guy and in the right side there is a black guy (the Black guy is the king 3Deer).
Look the legs of him, the darkest guy of the middle have the same leg.
The guy who guide me use this picture to explain me why and how Olmec-Xicalanca society racisms works. I think it is amazing. Maya/Olmec people indeed have the skin more darkner than Aztec or other North America tribes.