On Archery

[Quinzy]

I would like to ask if anyone has any images from codices or pieces of literature showing mesoamericans shooting a bow horizontally.

I don't know where I first read it but I have it in my head that the Meso's shot horizontally. Can anyone confirm/disprove/tell me why they did it?

 

[Virote_Considon]

I, too, have seen this somewhere. I can't remember where/why, though

 

[Quinzy]

To me it just makes sense I guess. I do archery and I know that in trees it's easier to shoot horizontally when hunched over.
But I just don't know where I read that they actually done it

 

[Derf]

Crossbows.
They're more or less bows horisontally.
But I know that's not what you mean.
Probably a silly question, but have you checked wiki on this?

 

[Quinzy]

The Aztecs used Crossbows?

And yeah, I searched as well as I could and nothng showed up...

 

[Stormrage]

See, this is just like my theory on Spartan cape-catapulting-infiltrators.

What does it matter where you have read it? You know it. Use it. With great power comes great responsiblity. Sometimes there are toys in your box of cereals. Enjoy. In any case, bow-gangstas look cool.

 

[Quinzy]

Wise, wise words.
I still wanna know though

 

[Goldfool]

The Aztecs used Crossbows?

And yeah, I searched as well as I could and nothng showed up...

The Vikings introduced it to the Incans just before they left for the Easter Islands and the Incans traded it to the Aztecs for hot chocolate.

 

[Quinzy]

Of course! The infamous Inco-Azteco-Rapa Nui...o-Viking trade... Square.

 

[Blue Monkey]

If the needs for images is to try & get units right you could look to some of the forest tribes of Asia for inspiration. As far as native Americans go, try looking for images from the Amazonian basin.

 

[Quinzy]

No no, what I requested images for was because of the Codices that were drawn up on the Aztecs, or for Mayan sculptures, murals or engravings.

 

[Blue Monkey]

The codices are very formalized; the art would not be useful in determining accurately the techniques used. I don't remember seeing any depictions of Mayan archers; most of their art I've seen is of kings or mythological figures.

 

[Goldfool]

Don't know if this is of any use, I'd say they could be standing or crouching by the size of the bow. Mind you they are kind of short people.

Brazil, Columbia and Venezuela

Set of Yanomamo bow and arrows in a cane quiver. The quivers are decorated with charcoal and/or the crushed red onoto nut. Each quiver contains a bow and three arrows. The bow and arrows measure approx. 27" to 28" long. The arrows are fletched with feathers and each have a different type of arrowhead carved from hard wood designed to hunt different sizes of game - birds, small mammals and larger mammals.

Detail showing the three arrows and bow in the above quivers.

The Yanomamo quivers below are called "thora". These are carried with a strap around the neck hanging down between the shoulder blades on the back. Within the thora are extra hand carved hard wood arrow heads or spear points. The lid of the thora is made of boar hide with the fur on the inside of the lid.

 

[Goldfool]

Most of what I've read says that mesoamericans used bows and arrows, but not extensively. Bows and arrow were probably more for hunting.

The primary reason for going to war was not to kill, but to capture for slavery and sacrifice.

Edit: Here is someones view of a meso archer.

 

[Quinzy]

Yeah, the people in the Aztec army would have been mercenaries and Eagle Warriors.

And i'm not positive that those figurines are accurate...

Darnit, I hope I figure it out soon.

 

[rifleman]

hey Quinzy,

I looked around a bit, and I couldn't find anything that asserted firing bows horizontally

The Codex Mendoza apparently addresses bowmen, but I looked through all of the images I could find and didn't see anything I identified as a bowmen. But like Blue said, these codices are VERY formalized, so it seems unlikely that they would portray the actual use of a bow (since it really wasn't a well respected weapon).

Bowmen are shown firing vertically in the Lienzo de Tlaxcala from before 1590 -

Not the same as finding it in a codex or a wall painting, but it might be the best available.

Personally, while I know a lot about most modern weapons (like rifles ), I'm not too experienced with bows. But I can't figure out why someone would prefer to fire a bow horizontally. Sure, it's possible, but not very effective.

Aside from advanced composite or compound bows, powerful bows tend to be fairly large - requiring you to draw them pretty far. Firing it underarm severely limits your draw, which limits range, power and accuracy. And firing it overarm presents other problems - if you you're not on your back, your neck gets in the way - and if you fire it with your palm down, the top of your forearm gets in the way.

On the other hand, it does make sense to draw the bow half way horizontally, hold it while waiting for a target, and then extend the arm -rotating the bow vertically (or close to it) - and fire.

 

[Quinzy]

I do archery myself, owning a Mongolian recurve, and while it's less powerful to fire horizontally, it's easier to shoot low that way.

Those images are very handy though mate

And thanks all for trying I hope i'll resolve this eventually!

 

[Blue Monkey]

I do archery myself, owning a Mongolian recurve, and while it's less powerful to fire horizontally, it's easier to shoot low that way.

I have seen film in Anthro classes of forest dwellers, in the Amazon for example, using a horizontal draw. To keep the arrow below the branches makes sense. & often they're in a spot where they need a short draw to avoid entanglement with undergrowth anyway. But when aiming up at a tasty monkey they used a vertical draw.

 

[rifleman]

That makes sense. What's the range on short bows like these? Do they have composite bows as in Asia or North America?

Also Quinzy, Angus McBride has some great paintings of MesoAmerican archers in the Osprey books "Aztec, Mixtec and Zapotec Armies" and "The Conquistadores" which are pretty good (even if they do show vertical bows). If you can't get a hold of the books, I could scan the images.

 

[Quinzy]

Blue- Yes, that's exactly what I mean

Rifle- Would you mind scanning them? It's be mighty grateful. Plus some other images of the Zapotecs would be nice too