On Falun Gong

[Jeff Yu]

I'm just wondering, how many people actually know what Falun Gong is and what their beliefs and practices are? *Raises hand* I do! People in the west generally have no idea what their beliefs and practices are except that they're being persecuted by China.

Well, allow me to present the teachings of Falun Gong's founder, Li, Hongzhi himself. All quotes are actual quotes and teachings preached by Falun Gong, taken from the following sites:

http://www.faluncanada.net/library/english/books_e.html
http://www.falundafa.org/book/eng/flg.htm
http://www.clearwisdom.net
I encourage you to read them yourself. They're a real hoot, especially the question and answer excerpts.

Information is quoted from various books, but in particular, the question and answer sessions are largely quoted from: http://www.faluncanada.net/library/english/usa/mgjf_e.html


What does Falun Gong have to say about interracial marriage?

"After races are mixed up, you will find one’s child born to be an infant of mixed blood. However, there is a partition in the middle of this child's life. If it is separated, he will be physically and intellectually incomplete or a person with an incomplete body. Modern science also knows that it is getting worse
one generation after another."

"I remember that Jehovah and Jesus all said in the Bible or books as
such, "You should not go to the East." There are other things said, but I
only remembered this sentence, "You should not go to the East," telling his
disciples not to pass on the teaching in the East. His disciples did not
listen to his words and followed the expeditionary forces to the East. A
problem then occurred. The races in the world are not allowed to be mixed
up. Now, the races are mixed up and it has brought about an extraordinarily
serious problem. Once races are mixed up, one does not have a corresponding
relationship with the higher levels, and he has lost the root. Mixed races
have lost their roots, as if nobody in the paradise will take care of them.
They belong to nowhere, and no places would accept them. Therefore, you
find the place where the continents of Europe and Asia meet a desert in the
past and a depopulated zone. When the transportation means were not
advanced, it was difficult to pass through it. With the progress of modern
means, all these are broken through. Thus, races have become increasingly
mixed up, which can lead to serious consequences. Of course, I will not go
into details. I'm just saying that the higher levels do not recognize such
a human race."

"yellow people, the white people, and the black people have the corresponding races in heaven. Then, if one is not from his race or does not belong to his people, he will not take care of him."

Question: If people of mixed race practice cultivation, which paradise will they go to?

Teacher: As far as humans go, people of mixed race no longer have corresponding human races in heaven. If they're cultivators, their outward appearances are no longer important and it all depends on the person's Primordial Spirit (yuanshen). If his Primordial Spirit is of the white race, he's white; if his Primordial Spirit is of the yellow race, he's yellow; if his Primordial Spirit is of the black race, he's black. It's a different matter if he practices cultivation.

Question: Can a person of mixed race succeed in cultivation?

Teacher: Whether someone can cultivate and whether he can succeed in cultivation are all up to the person himself. If a person of mixed race can persist in cultivation, he can reach Consummation just the same. When he succeeds in cultivation his Primordial Spirit will return to wherever he came from.

Question: What did you say last time that a person of mixed race has lost?

Teacher: He has lost the body that comes from the top down through to here. Let me put it this way: People of the yellow race have people of the yellow race up there, and people of the white race have people of the white race up there. He's lost this thread.

According to the teachings of Falun Gong, interracial marriage is a sin, and the
master teaches segregationist views.


Falun Gong on medicine:

"They think that it is better if they practice
cultivation and take medicine at the same time. Yet we have seen a
principle that since hospitals cannot eliminate karma and doctors are not
practitioners, they do not therefore have such mighty virtues. They are
technicians among ordinary people, who can only remove pains on the surface
and leave such illnesses for you in a deeper dimension. Taking medicine is
to suppress them inside the body and is as good as accumulating them. One
may not feel the pain on the surface, but it is deposited in the deeper
level of the body. Performing a surgery is also the same. For instance,
suppose that one has a tumour and has it removed. He has only cut off the
matter on the surface while the genuine cause of illness is in another
dimension, which has not been touched. Thus, such very serious illnesses of
karma will recur. Some appear to be healed and will not have a relapse in
this life. Then, they will come back again in the next life. "

"The most obvious thing is that your body will be purified very quickly.
Many people in Mainland China know that cultivation in Falun Dafa is simply
too miraculous! Upon starting the practice, the illnesses will be gone. Why
is that? Many people did not seek after healing illnesses."

"Let’s talk about the grabbing method. Here’s what we’ve seen. Why do people have health problems? The root cause of their problem and all their misfortune is karma, that black-matter karmic field. It’s yin in nature, and it’s something bad. Those bad beings are also yin in nature, they’re all black, and that’s why they can come onto the body—the environment suits them. That’s the root cause of people’s health problems, it’s the chief source of them. Of course, there are two other forms. One of them is really, really small, high-density tiny beings. They’re something like a cluster of karma. The other is as if it’s transported through a conduit, but it’s pretty rare, and all of it is accumulated through the generations. That also happens."

"Let’s just talk about what’s most common. When a person has a tumor somewhere, an infection somewhere, a bone spur somewhere, or whatever, in another dimension there’s a being crouching at that place. In a deep dimension there’s a being there. A typical qigong master can’t see that, because the usual supernatural abilities can’t see it, and they can only see that the person has black qi in his body. Wherever there’s black qi there’s illness—they’re right about that. But, black qi is not the root cause of the problem. Instead, it’s a being in a deeper dimension, and it’s that being that produces the field. That’s why when people talk about expelling and purging black qi, you can go ahead and purge away!—it’ll regenerate in no time. Some beings are strong, and soon after it’s expelled they’ll drag it back. They can retrieve it themselves. Blindly treating away won’t do it."

"People with supernatural abilities see black qi there, and they consider it pathogenic qi. What doctors of Chinese medicine see is the energy channels blocked there, that qi and blood are blocked, that the energy channels are congested. What doctors of Western medicine see is the symptoms of an ulcer, tumor, bone spur, inflammation, or whatnot—these are the forms it takes here in this dimension. After you remove that thing you’ll find that there’s nothing in the body over here. You’ll see that the slipped disc or bone spur is immediately healed after you remove that thing and wipe out that field. You can take another X-ray and there won’t even be a trace of the bone spur. The root cause was that thing which was at work."

Question: The air is heavily polluted. Is it very bad for cultivation?

Teacher: No, it's not a problem for us cultivators. Since your body is being gradually replaced by high-energy matter, these things can't pollute you.

In other words, they preach against practitioners going to doctors, or taking medicine, or seeking professional medical care of any kind. The master claims that meditation alone will cure any possible disease.


The master claims that Falun Gong practitioners possess superhuman powers...........

"There are those sitting here, who have been hit by a car. The car was damaged and yet nothing indeed has happened to the person. The person was neither in pain nor frightened, and nowhere was he injured. Why did it happen this way? It was that those creditors had come to you to demand payment (of the debts you owe). However, we cannot let real danger happen to you, but the debts must be repaid. Without the protection of the master, he would have died instantly. "

"Though we are not a religion, I am teaching things at the higher levels of
Qigong, it is therefore not the ordinary Qigong. To put it plainly, Qigong
is not something created by ordinary people."

...............and he uses pseudo-science to support his claims of superhuman powers:

"Now, people have also discovered huge ancient buildings and the existence of past civilizations under the Pacific Ocean, the Atlantic Ocean, the Indian Ocean, as well as many other oceans. However, upon examination, they are all found to be things that existed several hundred thousand years or several million years ago, or even earlier than that. "

"More than seventy percent of the human brain cannot be used, and modern
medicine has also recognized this point. "

"The most injurious type of spirit possession (futi) is that by a low-level entity. This is caused by cultivating an evil way. It is really harmful to people, and the consequences of people being possessed are frightening. Not long after beginning to practice, some people become

"For human beings to be human is not the goal. The goal is to return to your
original true self. "

"Some supernormal abilities that might be possessed by everyday people include an open Third Eye[15] (tianmu), clairaudience, telepathy, precognition, etc. But not all of these supernormal abilities will appear during the stages of Gradual Enlightenment, as they vary with each individual. It is impossible for everyday people to have certain supernormal abilities, such as that of transforming one kind of substance in this physical dimension into another kind of substance—this isn’t something everyday people can have. Great supernormal abilities are only developed through cultivating after birth. Falun Gong was developed based on the principles of the universe, so all supernormal abilities that exist in the universe exist in Falun Gong."

Yet when asked to prove the existence of these supposed superpowers, he can't.

"Real high-level supernormal abilities are not allowed to be brought out for show, because the impact and danger would be too great; for example, one would never perform the pulling down of a large building. Great supernormal abilities are not allowed to be used except by people with special missions, and neither can these abilities be revealed; this is because high-level masters restrain them."

"On the other hand, any supernormal abilities that can be demonstrated or performed cannot change human society or alter normal social life. Real high-level supernormal abilities are not allowed to be brought out for show, because the impact and danger would be too great; for example, one would never perform the pulling down of a large building. Great supernormal abilities are not allowed to be used except by people with special missions, and neither can these abilities be revealed; this is because high-level masters restrain them. All the same, some everyday people insist on having qigong masters perform, forcing them to display their supernormal abilities. People with supernormal abilities are unwilling to use them for performance, since they are forbidden to reveal them; displaying them would impact the entire state of society. People who genuinely possess great virtue are not allowed to use their supernormal abilities in public. Some qigong masters feel awful during performances and want to cry afterward. Don’t force them to perform! It is upsetting to them to reveal these things."

Other pseudo-scientific claims:

"Question: The students abroad in the U.S. are all studying the boring natural sciences with a kind of attachment.

Teacher: I might talk about this tomorrow. I'll tell you this principle: Humankind's history and humankind's science are actually a mistake. The foundation of its development, as well as the foundation for its understanding of humankind, nature, and matter, are all wrong. And this has resulted in damage to morality in today's human society. This is a major issue; I'll talk about it tomorrow. But there's one point: If humankind didn't have any knowledge, people wouldn't be able to read Zhuan Falun today, or at least they wouldn't be able to see the higher and deeper inner meanings in it. So it's probably not coincidental that you've learned the knowledge you have, either. The future humankind will develop on a new scientific foundation, so they'll also need knowledge."

The site ReligiousTolerance.org sums up their beliefs pretty well:
http://www.religioustolerance.org/falungong1.htm

Practices:

• Falun Gong consists of a set of five exercises that promote one's cultivation. "Three of the exercises involve physical movements and maneuvers while the other two exercises require remaining still for extended periods of time." 4
• Policies:
• Membership is open to all. People are free to affiliate and to leave the group.
• There are no prerequisites to learning Falun Dafa; there are no dues.
• Information is freely available on the Internet, without charge.
• There is no paid staff or clergy. All work is done by volunteers.
• They do not maintain a list of members' names and other data.
• Racism:
• According to the New York Times, Li Hongzhi said that: "...interracial children are the spawn of the 'Dharma Ending Period,' a Buddhist phrase that refers to an era of moral degeneration. In an interview last year, he said each race has its own paradise, and he later told followers in Australia that, 'The yellow people, the white people, and the black people have corresponding races in heaven.' As a result, he said, interracial children have no place in heaven without his intervention."
• Beliefs:
• As noted below, homosexuality is degenerate behavior, on a par with sexual promiscuity.
• As noted below, illness is caused by the indwelling of "an intelligent entity that exists in another dimension."
• The body's vital energy, Qi, can be focused to improve one's health and sense of well being. But it can also "be used to develop the ability to fly, to move objects by telekinesis, and to heal diseases." 12
• "...the Falun, or Dharma Wheel, and is described by Mr. Li as a miniature of the cosmos that he says he installs telekinetically in the abdomens of all his followers, where it rotates in alternating directions, throwing off bad karma and gathering qi. Many Falun Gong adherents say they can feel the wheel turning in their bellies." 13
• Eighty-one previous human civilizations had achieved a higher level of scientific achievement than we enjoy at the present time. However, they were all "left in complete destruction." 12
• A person with qigong training can walk through solid objects, like a wall.
• A qigong master emits "gong:" a "high-energy substance that manifests in the form of light."
• Individuals with some qigong training can exhibit super-human abilities: clairaudience, telepathy, precognition, etc. But it takes a qigong master to achieve certain functionality, like alchemy -- the ability to transform one type of substance to another. The latter could tear down a large building using mental power only. They would never do this in practice, because it is forbidden for them to demonstrate their powers. Also, such destruction would cause harm. 10
• Karma is a type of black material that encompasses each person's body. It has a physical existence "in another dimension and can transform into sickness or misfortune."
• Qigong practitioners can open their "tianmu" -- third eye. When the passage between their third eye and pineal gland can take many shapes: "oval, to round, rhombic to triangular." A practitioner can see things beyond this world. However, the functioning of the third eye is inhibited at certain practical levels. For example, they are unable to see through walls or clothes, because such a talent would be disruptive to society.
• Normal people are aware of only three dimensional existence -- four if you include time. However, a qigong master can see "dozens of levels of dimensions." Time shifting is also possible. 10
• There are many living entities on earth that appear to be humans, but in fact are aliens.

Persecution is wrong, but damnit, can a people being persecuted at least have the decency to not be utter jerks and fruitcakes?

Honestly, I think Li Hongzhi is an evil and immoral man. The man has made millions teaching psuedoscience and making claims that he has superhuman powers and is superior to Jesus, God, Allah, Buddha, etc to tons of naive converts. The guy and his teachings are blatently racist and homophobic, to boot. I won't even talk about his far out claims on aliens, time travel, superpowers, telepathy, ESP, etc......

He has encouraged his followers to revolt against China's government, with the predictable (and bloody) results. He tells his follows to start a rebellion while he himself sits back comfortably in New York basking in the millions he's made. And the guy has the audacity to claim that practicing Falun Gong will give his followers immunity to communist bullets! Some of his followers have even self-immolated themselves in Tiananmen square.

Note at no point do I claim religious persecution is a good thing. But this is the reason why almost no one in China sympathizes with Falun Gong and could care less about them being persecuted. They're regarded as a bunch of whackos and trouble makers with cult-like tendancies.

Further links:
Skeptic's Dictionary on Falun Gong
The James Randi Foundation
ReligiousTolerance.org

 

[Stapel]

The people in the Swedish town of Falun have a gong?

Maybe they bought one after being disappointed for not organising the 1988 wintergames (or was it 1992).

Sorry Jeff Yu,
I haven't got the tiniest clue about Falun Gong...

 

[Uiler]

The Falun Gong is sterotypical Taoist/Buddhist cult No 1001. There's been a zillion of them through Chinese history. The reason why the Chinese government prosecutes them is political though not religious. Chinese politicians have read the same history books as I have. They know that dynastic change is usually preceded by the rise of large cults that destablise the government. It's almost part of textbook Chinese history.

That being said, I think the Falun Gong are total wackos. They know nothing about Taoism or Buddhism (I wince everytime I see those multicoloured yin-yang symbols. Famous Taoist scholars of the past must be turning in their graves) and have insane beliefs e.g. walking through walls, being able to fly, including some that is outright dangerous - like telling their followers that illness is not caused by virus or bacteria but a being from another dimension who is offended by their sins. However I also don't think the Communist government gives a damn about their wacko religious practises so much as they are a group that can get a lot of people gathered together who give their allegience to someone who is not them. It is a political persecution. The thing is they haven't really done anything wrong yet (that can be proved). They are bad but I'm not convinced that the leader is any worse than a TV evangelist you see in the US. It's distasteful but not necessarily criminal. Having a wacko religious beliefs is not something that deserves to be tortured and imprisoned for.

 

[silver 2039]

People have the right to believe whatever they wish and it is wrong to be persecuted just because their beliefs don't correspond with others.

 

[King Alexander]

*this is the first time that I hear about Falun Gong* --- *bolding is mine*

After races are mixed up, you will find one’s child born to be an infant of mixed blood. However, there is a partition in the middle of this child's life. If it is separated, he will be physically and intellectually incomplete or a person with an incomplete body.

Support of racial discrimination.

Qigong is not exclusively a product of our country. It exists in foreign countries as well, but they don’t call it qigong. Western countries, such as the United States, Great Britain, etc., call it magic.

Disrespect of human intelligence(I'm not joking).

"There are those sitting here, who have been hit by a car. The car was damaged and yet nothing indeed has happened to the person. The person was neither in pain nor frightened, and nowhere was he injured. Why did it happen this way? It was that those creditors had come to you to demand payment (of the debts you owe). However, we cannot let real danger happen to you, but the debts must be repaid. Without the protection of the master, he would have died instantly. "

People supporting this, should be put in phychiatric asylums and never get out.

As noted below, homosexuality is degenerate behavior, on a par with sexual promiscuity.

I guess, that won't be liked by gays at all.

As noted below, illness is caused by the indwelling of "an intelligent entity that exists in another dimension."

I'm sure that the tutor's state of mind is in a very severe/critical condition, and he must be put under heavy medication therapy.

A person with qigong training can walk through solid objects, like a wall.

2 words: Get real.

The latter could tear down a large building using mental power only. They would never do this in practice, because it is forbidden for them to demonstrate their powers. Also, such destruction would cause harm.

Do I see cowerdness here??? --- Charlatans. Either walk the walk or don't speak at all.

A practitioner can see things beyond this world. However, the functioning of the third eye is inhibited at certain practical levels. For example, they are unable to see through walls or clothes, because such a talent would be disruptive to society.0

Sure...., they can see other worlds but not behind a house's walls -- serious mental disorder.

There are many living entities on earth that appear to be humans, but in fact are aliens.

I think *you* are the alliens here, and need to be transfered in another planet, ASAP, for the benefit of humanity.

@Jeff Yu: that Falun Gong is something very-very dangerous, IMHO. I find this Falun Gong extremely dangerous for the society.

They can be a serious threat for my society, as I see it, with all the brainwashing they do to their "victims" --- YES, I have no other word for those who believe in such things, but victims. Well, I have nothing else to say except, keep a close eye on them if you don't want your society to collapse.

 

[Jeff Yu]

The Falun Gong is sterotypical Taoist/Buddhist cult No 1001. There's been a zillion of them through Chinese history. The reason why the Chinese government prosecutes them is political though not religious. Chinese politicians have read the same history books as I have. They know that dynastic change is usually preceded by the rise of large cults that destablise the government. It's almost part of textbook Chinese history.

That being said, I think the Falun Gong are total wackos. They know nothing about Taoism or Buddhism (I wince everytime I see those multicoloured yin-yang symbols. Famous Taoist scholars of the past must be turning in their graves) and have insane beliefs e.g. walking through walls, being able to fly, including some that is outright dangerous - like telling their followers that illness is not caused by virus or bacteria but a being from another dimension who is offended by their sins. However I also don't think the Communist government gives a damn about their wacko religious practises so much as they are a group that can get a lot of people gathered together who give their allegience to someone who is not them. It is a political persecution. The thing is they haven't really done anything wrong yet (that can be proved). They are bad but I'm not convinced that the leader is any worse than a TV evangelist you see in the US. It's distasteful but not necessarily criminal. Having a wacko religious beliefs is not something that deserves to be tortured and imprisoned for.

Yeah, the Falun Gong are total whackos. They're the Chinese version of Scientologists. What is of concern to the Chinese government though, is like I said, that Li Hongzhi is quietly encouraging his followers to oppose the communist government. He's also taken his religion to create a cult of personality around himself. His followers literally worship him, and it he encourages them when he comes out saying his superpowers exceed those of Jesus/Yahweh/God/Buddha/Allah/etc.

Though I think the Falun Gong followers are whackos, I doubt Li Hongzhi actually believes the stuff he's saying. The reason I say to read the question and answers for the most outrageous stuff is because whenever he isn't reading from a prepared speech, the guy makes up outrageous pseudo-science to support his claims. He once talked about light years as if it were a unit of time. I think the guy only does it to make his money and get kicks from being worshipped like a god.

 

[silver 2039]

I find this no more strange or outrageous than any other religons. It is up to people to believe whatever they wish and follow whatever they follow and as long as they don't harm others I don't really give a damn. They can do whatever they want to yourself.

 

[Jeff Yu]

I find this no more strange or outrageous than any other religons. It is up to people to believe whatever they wish and follow whatever they follow and as long as they don't harm others I don't really give a damn. They can do whatever they want to yourself.

Telling followers to meditate instead of seeking medical attention isn't harmful? Encouraging racial discrimination isn't harmful? Encouraing followers to rise up against China's heavy-handed government isn't harmful? Telling followers that believing in religion will give you superpowers and protect you from Chinese soldiers' bullets isn't harmful? Encouraging followers to commit acts of self-immolation (in effect suicide) isn't harmful?

 

[silver 2039]

As long as none of the followers are being forced to do any of this I have no problem with this group. After all people have a choice to join this group correct? And they know this information beforehand. So it's up to them they don't have to believe it or do it if they don't want to. Now if member of the group goes and shoots someone at the urging of other members then that would be considered harmful and then Chinese government would have a reason to ban this group.
Has there been any incidents of attacks against others for which this group is responisble? If so then the government has a legitmate reason.

 

[Jeff Yu]

As long as none of the followers are being forced to do any of this I have no problem with this group. After all people have a choice to join this group correct? And they know this information beforehand. So it's up to them they don't have to believe it or do it if they don't want to. Now if member of the group goes and shoots someone at the urging of other members then that would be considered harmful and then Chinese government would have a reason to ban this group.
Has there been any incidents of attacks against others for which this group is responisble? If so then the government has a legitmate reason.

If so, then couldn't I make the argument that, since these guys are knowingly acting against the Chinese government knowing full well the consequences of their actions, they're getting exactly what's coming to them?

What enrages me is that the founder himself isn't acting on his own beliefs, but he's encouraging his followers to get persecuted so that he can get attention and financial backing from western sympathizers. All while Li Hongzhi is living quite comfortably up in New York.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

What really bugs me about Falun Gong is that one of their martyrs has the same lastname (in Latin transcription) than me...
So, despite my name being really rare (and genuine Franconian, no Chinese ancestors here), I get several hundred entries if I google for me without countless exclusions .

Of course they're completely wacko. But:

Membership is open to all. People are free to affiliate and to leave the group.

That (it it is really true) is all I require from a religion. Don't try this with Christian churches in secular Europe.

 

[punkbass2000]

Telling followers to meditate instead of seeking medical attention isn't harmful? Encouraging racial discrimination isn't harmful? Encouraing followers to rise up against China's heavy-handed government isn't harmful? Telling followers that believing in religion will give you superpowers and protect you from Chinese soldiers' bullets isn't harmful? Encouraging followers to commit acts of self-immolation (in effect suicide) isn't harmful?

You could say the same thing about many a religion. Are the Jehovah's Witnesses wrong for not accepting blood transfusions which could save their lives? Are the Christians wrong for not allowing euthanasia which could easily end years of needless suffering? Are the Jews wrong for not eating certain foods? The list goes on. As silver says, promoting these things is not wrong in and of itself, as long as the people following made the original choice to join the cult and continue to have the choice to continue to follow or leave. If you want to discuss brainwashing as well as infantile indoctrination, however, then that's an entirely separate issue.

 

[Azadre]

I know an exchange student from Northern China and she knew absolutely nothing of Falun Gong.

 

[Jeff Yu]

You could say the same thing about many a religion. Are the Jehovah's Witnesses wrong for not accepting blood transfusions which could save their lives? Are the Christians wrong for not allowing euthanasia which could easily end years of needless suffering? Are the Jews wrong for not eating certain foods? The list goes on. As silver says, promoting these things is not wrong in and of itself, as long as the people following made the original choice to join the cult and continue to have the choice to continue to follow or leave. If you want to discuss brainwashing as well as infantile indoctrination, however, then that's an entirely separate issue.

To answer your questions:

@Jehovah's Witnesses: Yes they are, they're damned wrong, and a barbaric practice, especially when parents make decisions on behalf of minors and prevent children from recieving blood treatments that could save their lives.

@Christians: Yes, they are wrong too, especially when they try to legislate their beliefs and prevent non-Christians from practicing euthanasia that could end years of suffering.

@Jews: No they aren't, because not eating pork does neither harm nor good to themselves or others.

 

[colontos]

Wow, Jeff, you changed my mind. Let's go massacre the wackos!

Man, I don't care WHAT they believe. They can believe anything they want, and you know what? The Chinese government torturing, imprisoning, and executing them for their beliefs, even if they are strange, is still dead wrong and a horrible violation of human rights. You can defend mass murder if you like, but I don't want to see you scolding any Nazis. The Jews were trying to rule the world, right?!

 

[Jeff Yu]

Wow, Jeff, you changed my mind. Let's go massacre the wackos!

Man, I don't care WHAT they believe. They can believe anything they want, and you know what? The Chinese government torturing, imprisoning, and executing them for their beliefs, even if they are strange, is still dead wrong and a horrible violation of human rights. You can defend mass murder if you like, but I don't want to see you scolding any Nazis. The Jews were trying to rule the world, right?!

I'll just repeat what I said before:

Note at no point do I claim religious persecution is a good thing. But this is the reason why almost no one in China sympathizes with Falun Gong and could care less about them being persecuted. They're regarded as a bunch of whackos and trouble makers with cult-like tendancies.

 

[colontos]

And I'll repeat what I said before. Any Chinese who doesn't care about what their own govt is doing to Falun Gong is equally guilty of torture and murder. You say it isn't a good thing, but then you say nobody minds it. What do you mean, Jeff, huh? You say its not ok, but that, after they're really crazy so it's a little bit ok, right, Jeff?

 

[punkbass2000]

To answer your questions:

@Jehovah's Witnesses: Yes they are, they're damned wrong, and a barbaric practice, especially when parents make decisions on behalf of minors and prevent children from recieving blood treatments that could save their lives.

@Christians: Yes, they are wrong too, especially when they try to legislate their beliefs and prevent non-Christians from practicing euthanasia that could end years of suffering.

@Jews: No they aren't, because not eating pork does neither harm nor good to themselves or others.

Well then, our discussion is at an impasse. I'll give you that your qualifiers are reasonably in line with my thoughts (deciding for minors and imposing legislation). However, your argument appears to be inherently hypocritical. You say Christians and Jehovah's Witnesses are wrong because they are choosing to harm themselves. They, however, believe that your choice to accept these measures is choosing to harming yourself. Why do your beliefs supercede theirs?

 

[Jeff Yu]

Well then, our discussion is at an impasse. I'll give you that your qualifiers are reasonably in line with my thoughts (deciding for minors and imposing legislation). However, your argument appears to be inherently hypocritical. You say Christians and Jehovah's Witnesses are wrong because they are choosing to harm themselves. They, however, believe that your choice to accept these measures is choosing to harming yourself. Why do your beliefs supercede theirs?

Moral relativity, eh? I suppose you think that all cultural and religious values are equal then, and none are better than others?

If so, I suppose Muslims are perfectly free to murder raped women, because they believe that doing so is better than allowing her to live in sin? Some of the Muslim girls might even be brainwashed enough that they themselves think they're in sin after rape. Therefore it's ok, right? Female genital mutilation is also fine then, because it prevents girls from touching themselves, which angers God. By being a Jew, that person is angering Allah, therefore Muslims believe that they're doing justice by suicide bombing them.

Of course my beliefs supercede theirs. Unlike bullcrap metaphysical religious and spiritual harm, the objective effects of such things can be measured and shown, namely an anemic 9-year old Jehovah's Witness dying of blood loss.

 

[Azadre]

Moral relatativity, eh? I suppose you think that all cultural and religious values are equal then, and none are better than others?

If so, I suppose Muslims are perfectly free to murder raped women, because they believe that doing so is better than allowing her to live in sin? Some of the Muslim girls might even be brainwashed enough that they themselves think they're in sin after rape. Therefore it's ok, right? Female genital mutilation is also fine then, because it prevents girls from touching themselves, which angers God. By being a Jew, that person is angering Allah, therefore Muslims believe that they're doing justice by suicide bombing them.

Of course my beliefs supercede theirs. Unlike bullcrap metaphysical religious and spiritual harm, the objective effects of such things can be measured and shown, namely an anemic 9-year old Jehovah's Witness dying of blood loss.

I believe adultory is severly punished in all three big religions. Islam isn't going to be your whipping boy.