grandad1982
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No stone in the BFC then.
One Last Roll of the Dice
- Thread starter grandad1982
- Start date
Admiral Kutzov
Idiot Emeritus
A & C per Grandad
Do we really need it? I know Cam_H really wants pyramids, but we are charismatic so happy cap is not a problem and I'd rather work cottages than specialists on our terrain. HR will solve rest of the happy problems easily. We also don't have time to wait for stone for the Stonehenge.
Plains forest spot gives 4 extra river grasslands, while 1 north gets deserts and unforested plains. And I'd rather user hammers on workers / settlers than on pyramids.
1 vote for including Stone in 'some' BFC! 
... Sorry Meiz ... I'm an addict! I am also happy to go with any group vote.
Played my turnset ... 16 turns.
Opening Turn | 2925BC
Move Paris Warrior to the south to assist in spawnbusting.
Turn 1 | 2900BC
The Worker completes the road and we now have both Gems and Corn hooked up! Worker moves to a southern Forest Hill. Revolt to the Slavery civic.
Turn 2 | 2875BC
Worker begins chopping.
Turn 3 | 2850BC
Still chopping.
Turn 4 | 2825BC
Paris completes the Warrior and we're at size 4.
Paris: Warrior > Settler
Warrior to the south east survives a Lion attack, and now has a promotion (unused).
Turn 5 | 2800BC
Still chopping.
Turn 6 | 2775BC
Chop done!
Turn 7 | 2750BC
Warrior goes for a bit of a roam to the south east. Worker moves to another Forested Hill. Riveting stuff.
Turn 8 | 2725BC
Begin chopping. Whip Paris' Settler.
Turn 9 | 2700BC
Animal Husbandry is in! We have Horses in our BFC! This poses the question of whether we forget our Axes that are quite vulnerable to Skirmishers, and go after Horse Archers?
Animal Husbandry > Pottery
Paris: Settler > Settler
Turn 10 | 2675BC
Settler treks towards Rice-Copper
Turn 11 | 2650BC
Still trekking.
Turn 12 | 2625BC
Orleans is founded.
Orleans: Warrior (not sure on whether we were going for Stonehenge or not, so invested turns in something that we can at least spawnbust with while the city grows).
Worker completes chop into Settler.
Turn 13 | 2600BC
Taoism is founded in a distant land. I still can't get used to choosing religions!
Worker moves to the Cows.
The computer suggests that we gift Orleans to Mali. This will make Mansa pleased.
Turn 14 | 2575BC
Paris: Settler (interrupt) > Stonehenge minimal
/ max 
Worker building a Pasture
Turn 15 | 2550BC
Worker still building a Pasture
Turn 16 | 2525BC
Ooops .. overplayed my turnset.
Rearranged Paris to work Gems in light of population growth next turn.
... Sorry Meiz ... I'm an addict! I am also happy to go with any group vote.Played my turnset ... 16 turns.
Opening Turn | 2925BC
Move Paris Warrior to the south to assist in spawnbusting.
Turn 1 | 2900BC
The Worker completes the road and we now have both Gems and Corn hooked up! Worker moves to a southern Forest Hill. Revolt to the Slavery civic.
Turn 2 | 2875BC
Worker begins chopping.
Turn 3 | 2850BC
Still chopping.
Turn 4 | 2825BC
Paris completes the Warrior and we're at size 4.
Paris: Warrior > Settler
Warrior to the south east survives a Lion attack, and now has a promotion (unused).
Turn 5 | 2800BC
Still chopping.
Turn 6 | 2775BC
Chop done!
Turn 7 | 2750BC
Warrior goes for a bit of a roam to the south east. Worker moves to another Forested Hill. Riveting stuff.
Turn 8 | 2725BC
Begin chopping. Whip Paris' Settler.
Turn 9 | 2700BC
Animal Husbandry is in! We have Horses in our BFC! This poses the question of whether we forget our Axes that are quite vulnerable to Skirmishers, and go after Horse Archers?
Animal Husbandry > Pottery
Paris: Settler > Settler
Turn 10 | 2675BC
Settler treks towards Rice-Copper
Turn 11 | 2650BC
Still trekking.
Turn 12 | 2625BC
Orleans is founded.
Orleans: Warrior (not sure on whether we were going for Stonehenge or not, so invested turns in something that we can at least spawnbust with while the city grows).
Worker completes chop into Settler.
Turn 13 | 2600BC
Taoism is founded in a distant land. I still can't get used to choosing religions!
Worker moves to the Cows.
The computer suggests that we gift Orleans to Mali. This will make Mansa pleased.
Turn 14 | 2575BC
Paris: Settler (interrupt) > Stonehenge minimal
/ max Worker building a Pasture
Turn 15 | 2550BC
Worker still building a Pasture
Turn 16 | 2525BC
Ooops .. overplayed my turnset.
Rearranged Paris to work Gems in light of population growth next turn.
Should we resume settler once Paris grows to size 3? I'd say we do and 1 pop whip it when we can (happiness is not a problem). Then we can finish SH while growing to size 4 and working corn, gems, improved cows and horses.
We probably need to build worker or two in our other cities while capital makes sure to get SH.
We probably need to build worker or two in our other cities while capital makes sure to get SH.
grandad1982
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I was kind of hoping some of the whip overflow or chopping would go into SH for the multiplication from IND. Leaving SH to much longer is running the risk of lossing it IMO.
Maybe grow to 4 before finishing the settler then whip into SH?
Will look at the save in a bit and compose my thoughts.
Maybe grow to 4 before finishing the settler then whip into SH?
Will look at the save in a bit and compose my thoughts.
grandad1982
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I'm ok on NOT going for the Mids. All that jungle screams cottages to me. We can get 3/4 really good cottage cities in that jungle belt that we can already see so I think hammers should go to settlers and workers (at least 2 workers per jungle city).
This means that I'd be happy with moving the next city to the plains forest tile to reduce overlap. As I said before I don't really like my C spot as it wastes the FP. This city could be our early unt pump with FP farmed and Plains hills worked thanks to the CHA happy cap boost.
After Pottery maybe Writing>IW or IW>Writing? I guess IW first as we need it to settle the jungle cities ASAP.
This means that I'd be happy with moving the next city to the plains forest tile to reduce overlap. As I said before I don't really like my C spot as it wastes the FP. This city could be our early unt pump with FP farmed and Plains hills worked thanks to the CHA happy cap boost.
After Pottery maybe Writing>IW or IW>Writing? I guess IW first as we need it to settle the jungle cities ASAP.
Spoiler :
grandad1982
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Roster
grandad1982 - on deck
Meiz
Nictel
Cam H - just played
Admiral Kutzov - up now
@Admiral
If you play 16 turns then that gets us back to a number I can understand! I always get confused if its doesn't end in a 0 or a 5.....
grandad1982 - on deck
Meiz
Nictel
Cam H - just played
Admiral Kutzov - up now
@Admiral
If you play 16 turns then that gets us back to a number I can understand! I always get confused if its doesn't end in a 0 or a 5.....
I like your northern dotmap. I also like your vote regarding our next city site 
Only thing I'd question is the need for those jungle cities ASAP. As far as we can see, three of your four dots are not contested by the AI's. I'd rather settle more aggressively towards them and backfill later. Of course we need to explore eastern region more before deciding anything.
That being said, I'd go Writing next.
Only thing I'd question is the need for those jungle cities ASAP. As far as we can see, three of your four dots are not contested by the AI's. I'd rather settle more aggressively towards them and backfill later. Of course we need to explore eastern region more before deciding anything.
That being said, I'd go Writing next.
grandad1982
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If we go writing next when a lib is up (maybe Orleans?) we can run some sci spec to speed IW along. A couple of charriots would help our exploration too.
My how shopping lists grow. Thats probaly why I'm so poor
My how shopping lists grow. Thats probaly why I'm so poor
I was under the impression we were trying to get two Settlers out as a priority, and there was even the suggestion that we wouldn't be going for Stonehenge.
Me too.
Jungle can also scream Specialist Economy.
I must say that I'm quite surprised that with an Industrious leader and nearby Stone that The Pyramids is even a debate, let alone a losing debate. As I say, I'm happy to go with the majority, but I'm still surprised.
I don't mind if we delay our attack and take on Mansa's '1-2 First Strike' Skirmishers with Horse Archers rather than run the risk of a backfiring Axe rush. I acknowledge that Archery and Horseback Riding are notorious 'non priorities' usually, but given the Skirmisher, it could save us some grief.
Personally I wouldn't prioritise Chariots for exploring.
I think we need to consolidate our thinking, as I don't know if the rest of the roster is even considering attacking Mali any time soon, and if so, how?
The AI's not contesting for the jungle either are they?
I didn't mean to skip SH, I just said that we can't wait for the stone to be improved. Anyway, I still think that two settlers for block before SH is the right call. We should still be able to get it, being indrustious and all.
Specialist economy would definitely work for our start, but in the long term, I think cottages should win. For me all these river grasslands are just screaming for cottages, and the spot I suggested does have more long term potential. Still I'm not saying that we would go much wrong with pyramids either, I'm just personally leaning towards mass cottages and mass rexing
Let's hear more opinions for this matter from the rest of the team as well. I'm happy to roll with what the majority decides.
Mansa is not so known for his defenses, so we should probably wait beyond axes. I'd say we can take him out later whenever we please, so let him build the improvements for us while we rex the other way
Apologies for editing my post #51 and effectively creating a cross post.
I agree that we still stand a very good chance of getting Stonehenge after the second Settler is out (I just didn't want to be the first one to say it in case it all went horribly wrong).
I also agree that Stonehenge was not to be delayed for access to the Stone. The Pyramids on the other hand ...
I am quite OK to run a 'mixed' economy too ... get ahead with a few specialist-focussed cities under Representation, and in the meantime build our Cottages up in others or in addition too in very food rich sites, maybe gradually switching over to a full Cottage Economy during the course of the game after we get our first 'say' half-dozen
s.
Mansa is seemingly going to be trapped in the south if we get a second blocking city out. He still might settle a couple more cities, and could sneak a Settler party onto a Galley if we leave him for too long. Timbuktu on flatland is a bonus. I'm a little concerned he'll get Iron down there and make things a bit tougher for us.
I'm happy enough to REX, although I just want to confirm that we're all thinking of the super-juicy six resource spot to Paris' north east, and that we're not going to split the resources across multiple cities? Or are we thinking of splitting the resources between rivermouth Dyes-Rice and Bananas-Cow-Dye? Maybe I'm getting ahead of myself.
I agree that we still stand a very good chance of getting Stonehenge after the second Settler is out (I just didn't want to be the first one to say it in case it all went horribly wrong).
I also agree that Stonehenge was not to be delayed for access to the Stone. The Pyramids on the other hand ...
I am quite OK to run a 'mixed' economy too ... get ahead with a few specialist-focussed cities under Representation, and in the meantime build our Cottages up in others or in addition too in very food rich sites, maybe gradually switching over to a full Cottage Economy during the course of the game after we get our first 'say' half-dozen
s.Mansa is seemingly going to be trapped in the south if we get a second blocking city out. He still might settle a couple more cities, and could sneak a Settler party onto a Galley if we leave him for too long. Timbuktu on flatland is a bonus. I'm a little concerned he'll get Iron down there and make things a bit tougher for us.
I'm happy enough to REX, although I just want to confirm that we're all thinking of the super-juicy six resource spot to Paris' north east, and that we're not going to split the resources across multiple cities? Or are we thinking of splitting the resources between rivermouth Dyes-Rice and Bananas-Cow-Dye? Maybe I'm getting ahead of myself.
grandad1982
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@ Cam H
Getting the settlers out is a priority I just felt that the second chop could have gone for SH. No biggie.
--------
I guess that where we settle the next city should be determined by by what kind of economy we want to run.
My bias is usually towards cottage heavy economies as I feel that they are more powerfull in the later sections of the game.
Even if we settled the next city for the stone I'm loaf to sacrifice the FP for it so would still prefer Meiz origianl 1 dot to my C.
On the Mansa issue I'm with Meiz on the REX now war later front. He may even provide us with a few techs while we get ready to hit him....
As for the chariots I wouldn't call them priority either. Its just that they are two move and avalible at our tech level. We'll want to explore and fog bust that jungle at some point so it seems that chariots are the best choice in the near future.
Getting the settlers out is a priority I just felt that the second chop could have gone for SH. No biggie.
--------
I guess that where we settle the next city should be determined by by what kind of economy we want to run.
My bias is usually towards cottage heavy economies as I feel that they are more powerfull in the later sections of the game.
Even if we settled the next city for the stone I'm loaf to sacrifice the FP for it so would still prefer Meiz origianl 1 dot to my C.
On the Mansa issue I'm with Meiz on the REX now war later front. He may even provide us with a few techs while we get ready to hit him....
As for the chariots I wouldn't call them priority either. Its just that they are two move and avalible at our tech level. We'll want to explore and fog bust that jungle at some point so it seems that chariots are the best choice in the near future.
grandad1982
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I also don't mind a mixed economy.
Only look in here if you want to get annoyed with me and my city placement ideas (confusion may ensue)
Only look in here if you want to get annoyed with me and my city placement ideas (confusion may ensue)
Spoiler :
I'm now getting repetitive, but I propose that; we kick off with a bit of REXing and when we get to build The Pyramids we can run Representation for a while that will help us pop several Great Scientists (and maybe a Pyramids Great Engineer if we're lucky) while also supporting happiness (which thankfully won't be an issue with Charismatic-Stonehenge). The Great Library also gets a turbo boost under Representation. In the meantime, cottage up several cities and these can be run as if we never had The Pyramids in the first case (which is what two of you are suggesting). Get to Liberalism or whatever, and convert to a largely Cottage Economy with a National Epic city somewhere to provide extra s for whatever.
The proposed Stone-Cow site looks like a great production hub to me. Floodplains, brown Hills, Stone Quarry, Plains Cows, a few riverside Grasslands. I personally wouldn't think about putting cottages on that spot. So do we have enough farmable land to support the Quarry and the Plains Hill Mines if we go with the 'C' site? Just. In this case I suggest the Floodplains are there to support the Mines. This is also in light of arguably questionable other production hubs around, plus clearing the jungle will take time.
On Mansa, it seems like none of us are thinking about an Axe rush therefore. I'm generally OK with that, but I'd like to hit him at some stage in the Classical-Medieval Era before things get out of hand.
You're right about spawnbusting Chariots. It just seems there's a lot to do, and exploring the jungle didn't seem as high priority as some of the other suggestions. If we're not taking Mansa out with Axes, then this allows much greater latitude on other options such as your proposed Chariot builds.
city somewhere to provide extra s for whatever.The proposed Stone-Cow site looks like a great production hub to me. Floodplains, brown Hills, Stone Quarry, Plains Cows, a few riverside Grasslands. I personally wouldn't think about putting cottages on that spot. So do we have enough farmable land to support the Quarry and the Plains Hill Mines if we go with the 'C' site? Just. In this case I suggest the Floodplains are there to support the Mines. This is also in light of arguably questionable other production hubs around, plus clearing the jungle will take time.
On Mansa, it seems like none of us are thinking about an Axe rush therefore. I'm generally OK with that, but I'd like to hit him at some stage in the Classical-Medieval Era before things get out of hand.
You're right about spawnbusting Chariots. It just seems there's a lot to do, and exploring the jungle didn't seem as high priority as some of the other suggestions. If we're not taking Mansa out with Axes, then this allows much greater latitude on other options such as your proposed Chariot builds.
More cross posts!
It does confuse. A city already exists NW of Stone. It's Paris.
I also don't mind a mixed economy.
Only look in here if you want to get annoyed with me and my city placement ideas (confusion may ensue)
Spoiler :
It does confuse. A city already exists NW of Stone. It's Paris.
grandad1982
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Sorry NE and SE!
Silly grandad.
Silly grandad.
grandad1982
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I agree that this next city looks like a unit pump.
I also agree in pricipal to you cross post of my cross post of your.....(post 56) about using the SE to springboard into a later CE.
If we settle on the FP (C) we can get +11 food from all the floods, grassland tiles, cow and city center (pre CS) and need +10 to work all plainshills and stone.
At size 7 (max happy ATM (I think) we can work cows, 2*FP, 3 plainshills and the plainsforest. this gives 17 hammers.
1+ has +17 food and can surport 16 hammers due to the loss of the forest at size 7. It has a lower overall production as it loses stone and a plainshill.
Please be adviced that my number crunching is pretty poor (see my compass gaff for the kind of thing I mean) so don't take this as gosple!
EDIT: Obviously I've ignored the deserthills for now but they're pretty easy to factor in if you want to.
I also agree in pricipal to you cross post of my cross post of your.....(post 56) about using the SE to springboard into a later CE.
If we settle on the FP (C) we can get +11 food from all the floods, grassland tiles, cow and city center (pre CS) and need +10 to work all plainshills and stone.
At size 7 (max happy ATM (I think) we can work cows, 2*FP, 3 plainshills and the plainsforest. this gives 17 hammers.
1+ has +17 food and can surport 16 hammers due to the loss of the forest at size 7. It has a lower overall production as it loses stone and a plainshill.
Please be adviced that my number crunching is pretty poor (see my compass gaff for the kind of thing I mean) so don't take this as gosple!
EDIT: Obviously I've ignored the deserthills for now but they're pretty easy to factor in if you want to.
Admiral Kutzov
Idiot Emeritus
I've got the save. Haven't yet digested the discussion. 
The consensus I'm sensing seems to be to REX. What priority do we want to put on hooking up the stone?
I'll probably play in about 24 hours. I need to re-read and sort out all the xposts.
EDIT: I re-read all the posts and don't think I've done anything to violate the hippocratic oath.
see title
Decide that the short term goals are to get SH, get another settler and to get C up.
59 - 6 of 1, half dozen of another. Let the warrior finish in Orleans or switch to worker? Switch to worker (see title).
60 - Paris grows to 3, working cows, wheat and gems. Poor note taking says SH is due in 4.
61 - cow pasture done
62 - start masonry in vain hope to someday own big pointy thing.
63 - start horse pasture. rename worker (nobody said I couldn't & we are from Megaton. Equip worker with Shady Hat and Lucky Sunglasses.)
64 - pasturizing
65 - more pasturizing
66 - Paris grows. Start working the horses. SH in 14
67 - flawlessly do nothing
68 - horse pasture done, SH in 9
69 - masonry to writing
70 - more flawlessly doing almost nothing. start chopping a forest.
71 - flawlessly chopping
72 - whip SH for 2 pop
73 - big stone circle built outside of Paris. begin tracking aliens. Settler due in 5
74 - Paris borders pop.
75 - end on a 5 as directed. chop finishes. Paris settler finishes next turn to go grab C. WORKER IS UNMOVED for the next better player to decide what to do with him (he is on a mission from god). There is an incoming barb N of the horses. Do we need a chariot for patrol?, but I think we have a shot at Pyramids in Orleans and Oracle in Paris.
Get SH - check
get another settler - close enough, check
get C up - fail
apologies for not waiting, but this seemed pretty straightforward...
The consensus I'm sensing seems to be to REX. What priority do we want to put on hooking up the stone?
I'll probably play in about 24 hours. I need to re-read and sort out all the xposts.
EDIT: I re-read all the posts and don't think I've done anything to violate the hippocratic oath.
see titleDecide that the short term goals are to get SH, get another settler and to get C up.
59 - 6 of 1, half dozen of another. Let the warrior finish in Orleans or switch to worker? Switch to worker (see title).
60 - Paris grows to 3, working cows, wheat and gems. Poor note taking says SH is due in 4.
61 - cow pasture done
62 - start masonry in vain hope to someday own big pointy thing.
63 - start horse pasture. rename worker (nobody said I couldn't & we are from Megaton. Equip worker with Shady Hat and Lucky Sunglasses.)
64 - pasturizing
65 - more pasturizing
66 - Paris grows. Start working the horses. SH in 14
67 - flawlessly do nothing
68 - horse pasture done, SH in 9
69 - masonry to writing
70 - more flawlessly doing almost nothing. start chopping a forest.
71 - flawlessly chopping
72 - whip SH for 2 pop
73 - big stone circle built outside of Paris. begin tracking aliens. Settler due in 5
74 - Paris borders pop.
75 - end on a 5 as directed. chop finishes. Paris settler finishes next turn to go grab C. WORKER IS UNMOVED for the next better player to decide what to do with him (he is on a mission from god). There is an incoming barb N of the horses. Do we need a chariot for patrol?
, but I think we have a shot at Pyramids in Orleans and Oracle in Paris. Get SH - check
get another settler - close enough, check
get C up - fail
apologies for not waiting, but this seemed pretty straightforward...
