One of these things is not like the other...

[Marla_Singer]

Furthermore, of course the U.S.A. gave the most help. We almost always do.

Actually this isn't the case. Australia, Germany and Japan all gave more for the tsunami than the USA. Here's the source.

I don't want to start a debate on this, I just want to get things more accurate.

 

[Pontiuth Pilate]

Of course looting's rife in New Orleans in the wake of Katrina. Lots of poor people were stranded in the city with no transport out; others stayed because everything they had was there in their homes. Now with 80% of the city flooded and much of the initial aid blocked by flooding, people are breaking into grocery stores to loot perishable food and water... others are stealing high-end merchandise like radios and jewelry, perhaps hoping to sell it. A shoot-on-sight order has been issued and martial law is in effect.

Those are the facts. Here's the reporting.

This photo was taken by the Associated Press:

And here's the caption.

A looter carries a bucket of beer out of a grocery store in New Orleans on Tuesday, Aug. 30, 2005, as floodwaters continue to rise in New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina made landfall on Monday. (AP Photo/Dave Martin)

Another photograph:

Another caption.

A young man walks through chest deep flood water after looting a grocery store in New Orleans on Tuesday, Aug. 30, 2005. Flood waters continue to rise in New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina did extensive damage when it made landfall on Monday. (AP Photo/Dave Martin)

Another.

Caption.

Looters hit a drug store in the French Quarter district of New Orleans in New Orleans, Louisiana, following Hurricane Katrina. Fresh floods, fires and looting rode in the destructive wake of Hurricane Katrina, deepening a humanitarian crisis that left hundreds feared dead and sections of New Orleans submerged to the rooftops.(AFP/James Nielsen)

Here's another photograph:

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg....jpg?x=240&y=345&sig=XFVzW6oiTkp9hr7J.ex3Qw--

And the caption.

Two residents wade through chest-deep water after finding bread and soda from a local grocery store after Hurricane Katrina came through the area in New Orleans, Louisiana.(AFP/Getty Images/Chris Graythen)

Can you spot the difference?

 

[Marla_Singer]

You should check this thread Pontiuth : One of these things is not like the other...

 

[Red Stranger]

I don't see the actual captions when I click on the link

 

[Pontiuth Pilate]

Hmm, I've been mucked. OK, mods please close the thread.

I should point out that although the "finding" caption is from AFP not AP, I've provided AFP photos that show Blacks as looters as well, so the difference between AFP and AP is irrelevant. Dunno if that point was sufficiently addressed in the other thread.

EDIT: Do a google search using the captions - you'll find them. Trust me, I cut and pasted them.

 

[Pontiuth Pilate]

Please note that while the images of the AFP news agency has released photos of Black "looters". For that, see my thread on the subject.

Therefore there IS an inconsistency which betrays subconscious racism.

 

[Marla_Singer]

Hmm, I've been mucked. OK, mods please close the thread.

I should point out that although the "finding" caption is from AFP not AP, I've provided AFP photos that show Blacks as looters as well, so the difference between AFP and AP is irrelevant. Dunno if that point was sufficiently addressed in the other thread.

EDIT: Do a google search using the captions - you'll find them. Trust me, I cut and pasted them.

AFP is French, AP is American. Americans in general considers that the law has to be respected whatever the circumstances. In France, people aren't so straight when it comes about laws. When I've seen both pictures, my first thought was that both wasn't looting as the city is utterly devastated and all those goods are ruined anyway. However, most Americans or Brits in that thread considered both were lootings... because no matter if the merchandises are ruined anyway "thou shallt not steal".

 

[Pontiuth Pilate]

Personally I am in favor of an amnesty for looting (it's still looting!) vital supplies, food, etc, that would otherwise be ruined.

The problem of the thread isn't the looting per se, it's the context given to the looting by the media.

 

[Marla_Singer]

Please note that while the images of the AFP news agency has released photos of Black "looters". For that, see my thread on the subject.

Therefore there IS an inconsistency which betrays subconscious racism.

Oh damn. That sucks.

There are only three news agencies in the world, two Americans and one French... and it has to be the French one being proven racist.

 

[The Last Conformist]

Looting in these circumstances would seem to be a victimless crime.

 

[thisispete]

I think the biggest concern is if fights break out over food. I saw a news clip last night, there was a police officer standing guard outside a store, he said "I'm not saying it's ok, but you've got to do what you need to survive".

High value goods are a different issue, but I'm not so worried about that. First, the stores would be insured; second, the police have more important things to take care of; and third, flooded-out electronics would be pretty useless to anyone. I know looters are wrong to take these things, but if they're not being violent they would be pretty low down on the list of priorities.

 

[zulu9812]

Pontiuth Pilate, very good point about media portrayal of the looting. Interestingly, almost all shots from the news have depicted black people. This leaves me with 2 conclusions:

these areas are 90% black

or

the white people left, but the blacks didn't - can anyone think of a reason for that?

 

[Bizon77]

Pontiuth Pilate, very good point about media portrayal of the looting. Interestingly, almost all shots from the news have depicted black people. This leaves me with 2 conclusions:

these areas are 90% black

or

the white people left, but the blacks didn't - can anyone think of a reason for that?

Orleans Parish in 70% black.

I used to live there. I hope my old friends got out in time and are ok

 

[FearlessLeader2]

But, but, but... the media?!? But, but, but...racist?!? But, but, but... *BOOMSPLAT*

(head explodes as logic contradiction of liberal media bias and open media racism conflicts violently in skull)

Gee, and all this time I thought the liberal intelligentsia was the 'good guys', turns out they're just a bunch of racist good ole boys. And of course, while us 'no-good worthless white male meat-eaters' are collecting donations and piling into pickups to head south and help re-build, all organized by eeeeevil (boo, hiss) churches and what-not, the camera points elsewhere... Sometimes I'm so right about everything it's actually painful.

I mean zomgzor, wtfzor?

 

[SonicX]

Well, it's subconciously, so it ain't their fault. Just an unlucky example of how stereotypes come to the surface without someone realising it.
It's basic psychology 101 though, everyone has these subconcious stereotypes that give negative attributions to anything in the "outgroup" and uses them unknowingly ...

I wouldn't blame anyone per se, it's not on purpose...
No world agency could afford to these things on purpose anyway.

 

[SonicX]

Actually this isn't the case. Australia, Germany and Japan all gave more for the tsunami than the USA. Here's the source.

I don't want to start a debate on this, I just want to get things more accurate.

Please don't forget that these numbers only include official government donations, private donations are excluded.
For the sake of accuracy ofcourse.

 

[farting bob]

What i dont like is the shoot-on-sight policy for anybody stealing anything not essentual. potentially killing or injuring someone for life because they are trying to take a TV (which with the increasing water levels still would almost certainly get destroyed anyway) is just screwed up. But if thats the only way they can keep the peace, i suppose it'll have to do.

 

[Bugfatty300]

What i dont like is the shoot-on-sight policy for anybody stealing anything not essentual. potentially killing or injuring someone for life because they are trying to take a TV (which with the increasing water levels still would almost certainly get destroyed anyway) is just screwed up. But if thats the only way they can keep the peace, i suppose it'll have to do.

No shoot-to-kill order has been given despite what the original poster said. Only martial law has been declared.

Either way there isn't even any troops in New Orleans to enfore martial law.

Its defacto anarchy and chaos which will get to the point where deadly confrontation between looters and Guardsmen and re-grouping police is inevitable.

Looters have armed themselves and have already attacked police several times. I see no reason why NG troops and police shouldn't defend themselves.

 

[Stylesjl]

Soon law and order will be restored, then the looting will stop. Very few will be caught and prosecuted

But the reason they can't allow them to loot is to maintain a basic level of order in the crisis otherwise it might escalate

 

[IglooDame]

Soon law and order will be restored, then the looting will stop. Very few will be caught and prosecuted

But the reason they can't allow them to loot is to maintain a basic level of order in the crisis otherwise it might escalate

Indeed.

Having said that (or at any rate, agreed with that), I'd have to say that if my home was destroyed and/or critical supplies in it were gone, I'd be "looting" just like anyone else down there. I can't imagine anyone except a Wal-Mart manager saying "no you can't take food out of here, even though it is already written off anyway".

I guess the problem in New Orleans at the moment is seeing the difference between opportunistic looting (such as you'd see in riots etc, taking of stuff simply because of the absence of law enforcement) and survival looting (where the looters don't care about value, just food water medicine and clothes).