Open Border flaw

[weasel77066]

Im not sure if this is how its supposed to be, or if its been overlooked, but there seems to be a contradiction in border crossings. In my game Im competing with Japan for a series of Islands. We border eAch other and in order to get through he has to sail through my border, or go ALLLLLLLLLL the way around. Of course I refused to sign an open border deal. Well, he is loading up galleons full of settlers and sailing through anyways, and no war has been declared. I tried to tell him to leave, but theres no option, I double checked EVERYTHING and according to the rules as I know them, he Can't sail into my border withough calling war. To top it off, I sent an empty galleon into his border and it said I had to declare war or turn back. I went in anyway (just to see) and it declared war. Seems like a tilt in favor of AI.
Is it up to me to deal with his incursion as I deem? (let him through or declare war on him?) If so then is there a penalty (in war weariness) for declaring war, as opposed to being attacked? If so then this is DEFINITELY an unfair advantage for AI.
Well, I appreciate anyones input who knows about this. I scanned through forums and didnt notice it mentioned. I think perhaps Im missing something in the rules..

 

[Commander Bello]

Most probably your opponent just used Caravels, which can only transport non-military units (merchants, missionaries, settlers, workers) and therefore are allowed to cross other nations' territory even without an open border agreement.

 

[weakciv]

yup must be caravels. in the description of them it says "explore your neighbors"

 

[RogueTrader]

Most probably your opponent just used Caravels, which can only transport non-military units (merchants, missionaries, settlers, workers) and therefore are allowed to cross other nations' territory even without an open border agreement.

I think that is a flaw then. I can't send peaceful units (missionaries, for example) into an opponent's area with closed borders, but a peaceful ship with peaceful units can sail through my border?

I think it was Civ2 where you could expel a peaceful unit, such as a spy. I think that would be a great feature of this game, whereby peaceful units can enter no matter the state of the borders, but the player can expel the unit if they wish.

 

[SPQR300]

Im not sure if this is how its supposed to be, or if its been overlooked, but there seems to be a contradiction in border crossings. In my game Im competing with Japan for a series of Islands. We border eAch other and in order to get through he has to sail through my border, or go ALLLLLLLLLL the way around. Of course I refused to sign an open border deal. Well, he is loading up galleons full of settlers and sailing through anyways, and no war has been declared. I tried to tell him to leave, but theres no option, I double checked EVERYTHING and according to the rules as I know them, he Can't sail into my border withough calling war. To top it off, I sent an empty galleon into his border and it said I had to declare war or turn back. I went in anyway (just to see) and it declared war. Seems like a tilt in favor of AI.
Is it up to me to deal with his incursion as I deem? (let him through or declare war on him?) If so then is there a penalty (in war weariness) for declaring war, as opposed to being attacked? If so then this is DEFINITELY an unfair advantage for AI.


Well, I appreciate anyones input who knows about this. I scanned through forums and didnt notice it mentioned. I think perhaps Im missing something in the rules..

Some ships can go into rival territory without open borders.

 

[weasel77066]

No I double checked that and these are fully loaded galleons with three units. Settlers and longbowmen. I also double checked the ROP, and the permanent alliance factor (in case he had one with someone who is able to cross) No such factors. He's just moving through. It take one full turn and then most of the next for him to pass through my territory. So he is sitting right off one of my cities at the end of his turn. (that in itself is nerve wrecking) lol
Just thought I let people know, cause it wasted my plans from early to mid game about cutting him off from the chain of islands. Then i took my time in settling there to be prepared for the expansion. Now Im burnt. (well actually, now I have to declare war and sink me some jap)

 

[Abacus]

Most probably your opponent just used Caravels, which can only transport non-military units (merchants, missionaries, settlers, workers) and therefore are allowed to cross other nations' territory even without an open border agreement.

Caravels can't transport settlers.

 

[Commander Bello]

Caravels can't transport settlers.

You're right. They can transport almost any other kind of non military unit, but not settlers.

 

[BeefontheBone]

Nope, 's a bug - it happens with galleys and probably other ships as well. With any luck it'll be fixed in the patch.

Incidentally, I noticed a graphical bug with ships earlier - if you attack an enemy ship diagonally where an adjacent square is land (for example, I attacked to the southwest when there was land to my west) the ship moves over the edge of the land in the combat animation. They also slide down in a daft way when moving out of a city on a coastal hill tile.

 

[weasel77066]

Thanks guys. Theyre sure to fix that one then. I fugured it was just them ole japs... you know how Korea is always griping about them japs fishing in korean waters. <wink>

 

[agoodfella]

This is clearly a flaw that should be addressed.

Missionaries are clearly peaceful units and should be able to cross ANY border (even at war) - of course with the risk that it may get killed.

Yet a caravel full of soldiers are allowed to get through?

 

[Sorceresss]

IF it is a bug with unfair consequences to you, feel free to open the World Builder (Ctrl+W) and to delete those "cheating" intruders (with the erase button). I am aware that ethical purists frown upon the use of the World Builder to get around problems during gameplay, but if it is an obvious bug with very unfair consequences, why not employ a developer's tool to temporarily "solve" the bug?

 

[snepp]

IF it is a bug with unfair consequences to you, feel free to open the World Builder (Ctrl+W) and to delete those "cheating" intruders (with the erase button). I am aware that ethical purists frown upon the use of the World Builder to get around problems during gameplay, but if it is an obvious bug with very unfair consequences, why not employ a developer's tool to temporarily "solve" the bug?

And to be fair, recreate those units elsewhere.

 

[weasel77066]

That cracking me up. YEA, I'll erase them japs from my waters, then to be fair, I'l take and go stick them in Spains waters.. someone's bound to take them. LOL

 

[Sorceresss]

And to be fair, recreate those units elsewhere.

Yes, I forgot to mention that point : to be really fair, you must compensate the A.I. player. Not necessarily by exactly recreating the units that were erased (to work around the bug), but by adding something of value in his territory that will not lead to a repeat of the original, buggy situation, while compensating him for the loss of the erased units.

 

[snepp]

That cracking me up. YEA, I'll erase them japs from my waters, then to be fair, I'l take and go stick them in Spains waters.. someone's bound to take them. LOL

Sounds good to me, those Spaniards are always picking on me!