Open borders with Mongolia

[robboo]

As per this discussion: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=161511

Do you think we should open borders with Mongolia?


I think we should because we need the intel, the trade, war is a long time away, and there isnt a very high probablity of them placing a city between BW and Abydos.

 

[Sigma]

Voted Yes on the condition that if they try to sneak past us, we close the borders immediately.

 

[robboo]

Sigma...I think everyone would agree to that.

I just finished reading the CoL again..it seems that since this is not under my official duties I must say that this is an OPINION poll only. And the final decision rests with the Sec of State.( if I understood that correctly)

Cheiftess..if I stepped on your toes I am sorry. In the light of our recent CoL problems I want to make sure that I dont screw up and cause more problems

 

[Chieftess]

It's fine. I included it in my instructions.

 

[Chillaxation]

I think it's too much of a risk at this point. We should wait at least a game session and get organized about our next settlement site.

 

[Tubby Rower]

I voted yes, but just for scouting purposes only. after the scouting is done we exit their land and prepare to claim our land.

 

[robboo]

Tubby..I agree with that..I would prefer to get in get out and not let them look at us.

 

[donsig]

It's fine. I included it in my instructions.

Shouldn't you wait till we vote on it?

I have voted against this. The only reason to open borders is to allow us to sneak into Mongolia and find out their resources do we can attack them later. If we're going to attack them let's do it like men with honor and not like thieves in the night!

 

[cIVpassIVe]

If we sign this open border agreement with them and they send a unit through Abydos territory before the ten turns are up, we can't stop them from getting into the penninsula....if we close borders after that, those unit(s) will be trapped inside, correct? That's a lot of open land for them to scout even after we close our borders again, and a potentially dangerous moving target or pillager if we declare war....

I voted yes because I want the info on their capabilities and resources, not to mention their land position, but I just wanted to put that out there.

 

[Swissempire]

Vote no, we don't need to give the mongolian any edge. They are our number 1 enemy. Open borders would allow them to GO PAST OUR CHOKE POINT, and settle on the peninsula. ALso, if we have Open borders, and then go to war with them, then we get a huge relations hit.

 

[robboo]

Not opening borders give us no warning as to when Mongolia will declare war on us. With open borders youusually have at least 1 turn to prepare. With Abydos 1 turn from Mongolian territory, a devastating first strike by them could cause us to lose Abydos... our only sources of horses and put BW square in their cross hairs.

At our present troop strength we would not be able to fend off an attack unless we resort to whipping our citizens. If you look at our military we have a hand full of warriors and axmen..units which do not get bonuses versus the Mongolia UU. We only have one spearman which is located in city 3( name?). It is our only unit which could have a decent chance against the Mongolian UU.

We need more units and quickly...I cant see Mongolia sitting around if they have horses and not attackng us. If they donthave horses... Abydos is a great target.

I hope to beef up the Abydos defenses next turn chat..

 

[Whomp]

I voted yes. There's absolutely no downside unless the artificial intelligence is smarter than us.

 

[Pajka]

Well, although we don't need OB to find out if Mongols have horses or not, it will let us know how many and which units they have already built.

 

[Bengeance]

I want to reiterate that if the Mongols have a coastal city and want to settle on our peninsula then they can do that whether we have open borders or not.

 

[Tubby Rower]

How is this poll tied?

 

[robboo]

tied and our Sec of state has abstained...so do we repoll or what?

This is an important decision and we need to have a definitive answer..a tie just means we have not decided.

 

[donsig]

Since the poll tied I hope the Secretary will go with the staus quo and leave our borders closed for now. We can always open them later should citizens vote in favor of doing so.

 

[robboo]

I respectively disagree with Donsig. The status quo was based of a lack of knowledge of "how to open borders". Therefore there is no way of maintaining it without losing the knowledge of "open borders". Should we maintain the status quo and not research any more techs that will force us to make a hard decision. YES or NO is a decision. "No decision" is the easy way out. We need to have a decision either "yes we will open it" or "no we wont".

In addition, some people obviously didnt read all of the discussions in here and the discussion thread because people are still voting "NO" with their reasons being "in order to keep the mongolians from settling in our territory". Thsi is despite the fact that that the AI is not programmed to look at that as a viable settlement location( nor would a human player do it) and a settler can be put on a ship and then sail around our "choke" anyway.

The benefits to trade, exploration, and security for outweigh any costs. I hope that the secretary of State opens a new thread and poll maybe some additional choices added.

 

[Whomp]

Are people voting "no" because this is a demogame you're roleplaying like the slavery issue? If the answer is yes then I will take that for what it's worth.

If you voted "no" because you don't want Mongolia to have access I think you should reassess.

I'll reiterate that open borders will give us more intelligence than the Mongolians will have on us. There's nothing wrong with closing borders when it's time for war but I implore you to not tie the Secretary of War's efforts to gain terrain and resource knowledge.

 

[donsig]

Well, we can't *reassess* here since this poll is closed. Rahter than let the Secretary make this decision for us we should either discuss it a little more and repoll or just repoll it. In the mean time the Secretary should go with the status quo. If borders are opened then it kind of makes more discussion and repolling moot. Leaving borders closed a while longer allows us to decide if we want them open or closed. (By *us* I mean *citizens*.)