opinions on this strat please

[jn10091981]

This is my general strat, i know it works relatively well on noble and below, <started on settles and moved up with this strat till about 250 ad just to see how it works in the begining>

The basic idea of this strat is get found as many religions as possible and set up specialized cities for later in the game. I know thier are some probs with it but thats why im posting.

settle my first city on grassland or floodplain with a decent amount of forests near by <like 5+>.

I always play indian because they are the only civ that has mining and myst to start and i like the fast workers.

First city build order: emphasize growth
warrior, worker, warrior, settler
Once you get bronze working, chop untill your around 3 or so forests left.

First research polytheism, which i almost always get, followed by bronze working <for chopping>, then masonry and monotheism. I usually get hinduism and judiasm as i research poly first and starting with mining lets you research bronzeworking while other civs are researching mining and still get judiasm.

Send the second settles to a coastal square with either plan or grassland around it, build a warrior thier first, then a worker, then a settler. emphasize growth there also, if thier are any forests chop most of them, leave a couple for later in the game. Then build settlers.

After monotheism get pottery, sailing <for lighthouse> then to writing, code of laws <for yet another religion> and theology.

Build a couple cities close to your borders and use them specifically to send out missionaries.

The main probs i have here is that i dont get archery and i am stuck using warriors for far to long. metal casting is key also, as i turn my second city into a science factory later in the game <oxford univ, colossus, other worders in that city as well>


Another question: When you have a shrine in a city, i know you get 1gold for each city that has that religion, but what if a city has 2 religions that you have shrines for, like hinduism and christianity, you get 2g? and does that 2g come out of the foreign cities $$? also what is the benifit of spreading a religion to your own cities? Is it better to send missionaries to your own cities or foreign cities first?

Thanks for the help

 

[Gufnork]

Well, religions really aren't that good. Getting one early is very good if you're going the peaceful way, but more than that just isn't worth the effort. You starting strategy is sound, but I would definetly get archery sooner, atleast if I don't have Copper nearby. I suggest you get it after Pottery. You might want to research Priesthood so you can snag the Oracle also, it's great for getting Metal Casting early.

Also, you do know that the trees you chop doesn't have to be inside your borders. Trees in neutral territory works just as well and some people have the obscene idea that trees are good for you, so you can chop them instead. Trees you expect the AIs to get are good to start with, if they're nearby.

Yes, you get 2g for cities with two religions you both have shrines for. The gold appears out of thin air, noone loses gold because of it. You should always spread your state religion first, since that will improve your relations with the AI and give your own cities extra happiness and culture. Spreading your non-state religion to your neighbours isn't worth it.

 

[jn10091981]

wouldn't spreading your non-state religions be beneficial because if you founded it <with shrine> you would get the extra gold. For my the whole point of this strat, besides the fact that with your religion the opponents will be more friendly, would be that they send you gold.

As such, wouldnt spreading EVERY religion you found be beneficial and worth the time? or am i wrong?

Is it better to spread a religion you found to your own cities before foreign ones or domestic first?

 

[Wlauzon]

Well, religions really aren't that good. Getting one early is very good if you're going the peaceful way, but more than that just isn't worth the effort.

Sounds to me like you are ignoring some parts of relgion - like being able to build temples and monasteries to increase research.

 

[Gufnork]

You don't have to found the religion to be able to build monastaries and temples, you just have to have it. Get lots of Open Border treaties and you'll get all religions eventually. Just build a monastery in those cities and start converting.

The reason I don't feel it's worth spreading non-state religion to the enemy is that he benefits far more from the extra religion than your piddly gold coin. Besides, wasting production on missionaries for a single gold per turn isn't worth it.

 

[Pinstar]

You pay the price of a misionar, 40 hammers if I'm not mistaken.

You make 1 gold per turn per city when you have built a shrine.

Let us assume, for arguement's sake, that hammers and coin are of equal value. If you seed your religion in an enemy city it will begin to generate coin for you.

1. After 40 turns, the city has paid for itself on the coin for hammers ratio
2. The city has a chance of naturally spreading the religion along trade routes... giveing you more income and saving you the cost of missionaries.

Like cottages, they are a long term investment.

 

[petey]

It's never bad to found multiple religions, except in terms of the opportunity cost of doing so. Not only do you get income from every city that you spread it to, but you also get to see what's going on in all those cities as well.

There's also all the happiness and cultural bonuses that come from multiple religions and you don't have to wait around for them to spread naturally before you can take advantage of them.

 

[Ephor]

Multi-religions is stil nice for a warmonger, particularly when it comes to pacifying your neighbor to avoid a two-front war.

Multiple religions can be absolutely crucial to a culture vic, though. The 50% culture bonus of Mosques/Cathedrals, ect. is key, and since a peacemonger might want to make a b-line for free religion anyway, just to avoid war, the lost benefits from a single religion (i.e. not having to spam your own city with missionaries for civic bonuses) may not be that great.

Like everything in civ 4, though, the game will tel you what the best strategy is. If you can spread a religion to all your neighbors early on, a single religion and pacifism may be the way to go.

 

[weakciv]

the only issue with spreading your non-state religion is that if another civ adopts your non-state religion as THEIR state religion then they now view you as having an opposing religion and it is bad for your diplomatic relations, even though YOU founded the religion.

 

[Astax]

I use religion all the time. Indian works if u go for bronze working early but you might miss some religions. Also as far as your strategy goes I'd leave 3 or 5 forests. Should give you 1 and 2 health respectibaly

 

[Gufnork]

Pinstar: You have to see things relative. If I gain one gold but all other civs gain two, I've lost one gold, not gained one. It might be worth doing to smaller civs, but not your main competition.

 

[Mujadaddy]

OP: I wonder why, since you start w/ Mysticism, why you don't go after Meditation as well?

Anyway, the point of founding ALL the religions is to have Seven temples in your cities, and ONE temple (your state religion) in your opponent's cities

 

[jn10091981]

i dont go to meditation as well because many civs start with myst tech and i have not yet managed to get both meditation and poly.

As for not spreading other religions to your neighbors, if you dont spread them why bother founding them? How would your opponent get 2g and you only 1 if you found a religion and spread it?

 

[Mujadaddy]

As for not spreading other religions to your neighbors, if you dont spread them why bother founding them? How would your opponent get 2g and you only 1 if you found a religion and spread it?

I spread them to my empire first and foremost... usually I don't go for teh 7-religions-monopoly, so it's not a consideration, just a theory...

Practically, though, you don't get the gold until you have the Founding Temple in your city, so don't spread a religion you haven't built up the Great Prophet for yet would be the short-hand rule-of-thumb

And as far as the original comment what I meant is that if I can have 7 temples, 7 monasteries, 7 cathedrals, etc. in ALL my cities, and the opponent only has one, then I've got a big advantage, as far as I see...

 

[quail]

I always play indian because they are the only civ that has mining and myst to start and i like the fast workers.

Not trying to tell someone how to play their own game of course, but I find this boring. I always just choose random civ, and sometimes random world, to make each game different.

 

[jn10091981]

I dont go for a 7 religion monopoly, i usually have 3 or 4, its impossible to get meditation and polytheism for example. I have found a fatal flaw in this strat though, and form now on i am going to get archers much earlier, i got a swordsman rush that killed me pretty quickly.

thanks for all the advice so far

 

[RonnieSoak]

Looks like a reasonable peaceful strat, only problem is that you leave yourself with quite a weak military while you grab religions. You will nead to increase the amount of military techs/units if you want it to work on higher difficulty levels a the AI gets more agressive and has more units (it gets a bunch of free unit support at higher difficulties).

 

[Legionary37]

Getting multiple religions is a sound strategy (Although difficult as you advance in game difficulty) as it, at the least, desprives other civs of the benefits of a religion.

On the other hand, unless you play on an easier level, it's unlikely you'll get more than one religion, especially if you play with alot of civs.

 

[weimingshi]

well, its still doable to get multiple religion on emperor level so far. I play chinese on huge map, 18 civs, i founded buddhism ( was lucky though, first hut I poped gave me mysticsm, so I went for buddhism). Financial traite sure helps tech research alot. later on also got to islam, confucinism, toaism. Darn hatsepsut beat me to christianity by one turn, I kicked myself for that, cause I could've got it, but I was fiddling with some other tech and only switched to christianity half way.

Well my reason for founding all those religion is for diplomacy. This way more AI civ will adapt buddhism and easier to make friends with. And also all those temple monasteries is a huge culture boost

 

[MarcAntiny]

I definately think state religions are a good thing when you found them. Not only do you get gold per turn once you build the shrine, but you get culture, you can spread it and make allies, and you get production bonuses through the different civics options which are some of the earliest civics you get. Organized Religion gives you missionaries w/o monasteries and +25% faster building in any city with state religion. Theocracy gets you +2 xp, nice for warmongering, and other religions will not spread, keeping that extra money away from AI. Pacifism gets a huge +100% birth rate for great people in all cities with state religion<--- huge regardless of style of play. Free Religion gives you +1 happy with every religion in city and +10% research which is nice if you're behind.
So combining all these different options, surely there is one that fits you're style of play. My last game I founded all 7 religions won a cultural victory and was making 200gpt in the end. I was done with techs and the AI was just getting Replaceable Parts. 100% research all game...