Optimization Revealed

Like all crazy ideas which will bring misery and destruction to the world and ultimately be eradicated from without and within by those who do not understand that it can only succeed through total subordination, this sounds great! Sign me up.
 
Scarcity is a scam and in a real free nation new resorces are found and old resorces are made more efficiant, the scam of scarcity is put form by monopolymen/dictators.

So your Theory of Optimization is false.
If you think about it anyone who wants to be in power will also be greedy and once them and only a few of there buddys can see the info on said item in question thay will start lieing so thay can bleed anyone relying on the item in question (food problems/Monsanto's growing monopoly) (going into iraq and gaining more control of the world oil supply/riseing gas prices).

If you have any intrest in these subjects look them up i will not be returning to this thread.
 
Not by me!

At least you admit it's morally reprehensible, though.

To each his own. Termination awaits those who refuse. I would probably find a waiver somehow for you perfy.

You kow today I was at IHOP taking the wife to her mothers day breakfast, there was a woman behind us. UGLY as sin itself. Had about 8 kids. Total trailor trash, and I thought to myself, "God I can't wait to initiate this movement"... I guess good things come to those who wait right?
 
Scarcity is a scam and in a real free nation new resorces are found and old resorces are made more efficiant, the scam of scarcity is put form by monopolymen/dictators.

Say that to my face when gasoline is 84$ a gallon. It was predicted that this would come about years ago, even Isaac Asimov predicted it in his book "The Stars in Their Courses" I believe.

Also, call me or the ideology what you will, but admit that a unified government and a unified human condition and goals would not be more than welcome at this point in time? Even if billions must be terminated for Optimization.

The ends always justifies the means.
 
Incentive is to not be terminated. Not performing to an optimal level will eventually lead you to break a core termination law. Understand that they WILL be educated otherwise, will be genetically pushed in the right direction. Iron fist in the left hand, with a caring mothers hand on the right.



Termination solves all unfixable problems.



As all are veiwed as an important aspect towards the whole of Optimization, this should be minimized. I don't know how it will be portrayed intially, but after a few generations everyone will be valued at some level, and the "strong" and "weak" concept will be replaced with "Optimized Contributer", no matter the position.




Always in this case is not a solid fact, always, THUS FAR, it may have done so. the Optimization of the world will have contingencies and cut off points to not allow such dramatic retribution towards the governing body.



But accepted as a necessity.



The Optimized system of government finds a way to Optimize all things, all problems will eventually be terminated or Optimized.
No Chazumi, Optimization simply will not work on the current human race. If you steered them in the right direction genetically, first, perhaps it would be effective. But the current human species is not capable of living under such a system. It sounds similar to what the Incas had, and their system lasted a while, before collapsing just prior to the Spanish invasion.

Terminations do not solve all unfixable problems. They in fact create problems themselves. Ever see Logan's Run? If even a person who firmly believes in the system discovers he's due for termination, more often than not he will fight it. Sooner or later, almost certainly sooner, you will get groups of people fighting termination before they qualify for it themselves.

Your system cannot fight human nature my friend, not for long, and not effectively. Sooner or later, you will expend more resources enforcing the system than you will garner from it. Soon after that, the system will collapse.

Avoiding death is not adequate incentive. Look at the incidences of alcoholism and suicide in the Soviet Union. People need more than survival, and your system does not offer that to any but a chosen few.

Historically, the weak only value the positions of the strong so long as they have a chance of becoming members of that elite themselves. When they don't, they resist, actively or passively. I think that passive resistance would probably play a massive role in your state.

In six thousand years of recorded history, no human society has avoided these pitfalls. Only sheer political will could keep yours from doing the same, and it simply cannot be kept up for long. Even if there is no rebellion from beneath, sooner or later there will be corruption from the top. All it takes is one person realising that taking more power for themselves is preferable to only having what is provided for them, and you have the seeds of corruption.

Optimisation is not an effective goal in and of itself. It will never work.

@Perfection: Morality is subjective, and therefore meaningless in a discussion such as this. It may be important at helping to bring down Chazumi's system, but the morality of a system is entirely unimportant in regards to its effectiveness.
 
Terminations do not solve all unfixable problems. They in fact create problems themselves. Ever see Logan's Run? If even a person who firmly believes in the system discovers he's due for termination, more often than not he will fight it. Sooner or later, almost certainly sooner, you will get groups of people fighting termination before they qualify for it themselves.

Perhaps then, Microchips into the brain that can be immediately activated? Again this probably won't be my area of expertise. Again everyone says this will create more problems than solve, but no examples are given, please do so.

Your system cannot fight human nature my friend, not for long, and not effectively. Sooner or later, you will expend more resources enforcing the system than you will garner from it. Soon after that, the system will collapse.

Again Optimization is not a first time go at this station, several generations are needed to perfect the system, to bring it to full Optimization.


Avoiding death is not adequate incentive. Look at the incidences of alcoholism and suicide in the Soviet Union. People need more than survival, and your system does not offer that to any but a chosen few.

Those that decide survival is worth more than dying for an ideology will be given higher positions due to the lack thereof, and from them the genetics for the next generations are set, also education and a series of training will suffice to provide the mindset necessary.

Historically, the weak only value the positions of the strong so long as they have a chance of becoming members of that elite themselves. When they don't, they resist, actively or passively. I think that passive resistance would probably play a massive role in your state.

Passive resistance leads to non-Optimal performance and thus termination. Problem solved. Some may like farming, some may love to be directorate of advanced training methods of an Optimized society, to each his own. It is decided from the Optimized selection process.

In six thousand years of recorded history, no human society has avoided these pitfalls. Only sheer political will could keep yours from doing the same, and it simply cannot be kept up for long. Even if there is no rebellion from beneath, sooner or later there will be corruption from the top. All it takes is one person realising that taking more power for themselves is preferable to only having what is provided for them, and you have the seeds of corruption.

Again, after only a few generations training and genetic manipulation will nullify the concepts of personal gain and personal glory, thus making Optimization a maleable force to be focused on the current problems, and maintaining contingency plans for the future. Also termination is a huge factor in eliminating undesireables. These heros and what not of human history are nullified from the fact that at a young age after screening and emotional evaluations are terminated, no threat, no problem.

Optimisation is not an effective goal in and of itself. It will never work.

Optimization is the apex, the epitome of human creation, a self sustaining governmenting body that leaves nobody behind, eliminates waste, and ensures that human civilization is maintained until the unforeseeable future.
 
Philosophy and Doctrine

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- Questions?
- Comments?
- Suggestions?

I refuse to debate your apparently nonsensical system until you can explain to me what, if anything, this has to do with Polarization.
 
I refuse to debate your apparently nonsensical system until you can explain to me what, if anything, this has to do with Polarization.

Again, if you had read the entire thread which should have been done so to understand the greatness that is Optimization, you would have seen that the mathematical equation presented was merely for the aesthetic of the presentation.

On that same note, according to dictionary.com

1. a sharp division, as of a population or group, into opposing factions.

Optimization seeks to eliminate "polarization", so therefore I think it fits nicely.
 
You're giving me obssesive compulsive disorder! Please change the equation to:
where
P= percent of resource one produces
C= the sum of the percent of each resource consumed
termination occurs when:
P-C<0
If you use this equation DON'T cite me.

Anyways, it seems as though the whole point of this is to produce as much as possible. But why is that so important?
 
Anyways, it seems as though the whole point of this is to produce as much as possible. But why is that so important?

Producing as much as possible with as little waste as possible maximizes resources for other paths such as research into specific topics, or expansion of the human race as whole. Unified in their efforts, the Optimized system finds solutions to problems with scientific research several times faster than individual components competing for funds.
 
Ever hear of prisoners' dilemma?
 
Teamwork is an artificial construct. Creating a bureaucracy (a form of teamwork) to maintain teamwork (say, a research group) to better the bureaucracy seems a bit redundantly weird.
 
Producing as much as possible with as little waste as possible maximizes resources for other paths such as research into specific topics, or expansion of the human race as whole. Unified in their efforts, the Optimized system finds solutions to problems with scientific research several times faster than individual components competing for funds.
So? xclxcl
 
They predicted the possibility of him, if not him himself. This was the reason the Second Foundation was created, in order to defend against such mutations.

They didn't predict Gaia however, but that was because they had no knowledge of its existence prior to the fall of the Empire.

Nope. The system failed because R. Daneel Olivaw was pushing it along. When he created Gaia, the whole thing just broke down.
 
Teamwork is an artificial construct. Creating a bureaucracy (a form of teamwork) to maintain teamwork (say, a research group) to better the bureaucracy seems a bit redundantly weird.

"The bureaucracy is expanding, to meet the needs of the expanding bureacracy". Sound familiar? Expansion for expansions sake, we know we are headed in that direction, why not Optimize it and enhance its growth rate?

greenpeace said:

I would rather the excess go towards a single movement with the masses involved, rather than an individual group in which the head of the project siphons off millions for his own personal benefit.
 
"The bureaucracy is expanding, to meet the needs of the expanding bureacracy". Sound familiar? Expansion for expansions sake, we know we are headed in that direction, why not Optimize it and enhance its growth rate?

That quote is used to counter the argument for expanding the bureaucracy.
 
I would rather the excess go towards a single movement with the masses involved, rather than an individual group in which the head of the project siphons off millions for his own personal benefit.
Why not follow my system where incentives are not allowed (except as a last resort in stopping physical, emotional, and intellectual damage) so that people only produce what they see as worth the effort of producing? That way the produce can be wantedly concentrated, and nobody has to subjected to such extreme measures. If you want a little more detailedd account of my system here you go:
Society should be decentralized (to the point where a community is completely self-goverened). The decentralized government must be made of all people able to communicate in the community. These people make decisions by the democratic process in which the highest majorty agrees with the decision. The two types of decisions it is allowed to make will be:
1. Whether or not a person (in the community) intentionally has, or is, or eminently will be causing harm and what to do about it. Harm is defined as anything that inhibits a persons ability to do something other than inhibit someone elses ability to do something (the primary way is offering of incentives and other forms of authority). Also harming is inflicitng emotional, physical, mental damage. The established authority is the only entity that can legally offer incentives to counter harm. If there is a situation were it is physically impossible for one to not harm another than the authority must attempt to reduce the harm as much as possible.
Also harm is taking away the produce of another person/groups production without their (un-incentived) consent. Also harm is not allowing natural resources to be shared fairly (the authority decides fairness).
2. Whether to include a new member to a community or not.

Also, that reason along doesn't justify your forced labor, as you could just share products equally instead.
 
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