Orbital Mind Control Lasers (Civ Flavour Brainstorming)

[Maniac]

That's the critical point IMO - are we talking of religions or ideologies?

It depends on the faction. Gaians or Believers would see stuff in religious terms; the Hive and University in ideological/philosophical terms.

 

[Lord Tirian]

It depends on the faction. Gaians or Believers would see stuff in religious terms; the Hive and University in ideological/philosophical terms.

Perhaps the in-game term should be changed to make that clearer, because right now, it just "feels" wrong to have strongly religious University/Morgan or so - but as ideology/philosophy, it would make perfect sense.

Since ideology is sort of taken by the factions themselves, what about something like "paradigm"? Could fit, as it describes a thought pattern or conceptual framework in general, which fits well.

Cheers, LT.

 

[Pfeffersack]

It depends on the faction. Gaians or Believers would see stuff in religious terms; the Hive and University in ideological/philosophical terms.

Makes sense. However this distinction in view can't be used in the game (at least not with the leaderhead.xml; all you can do is set how big the initial impact is, how big the impact overtime can be and how fast the latter sets it)...so the next question is, if the ideological/phislosophical view would be as fanatic. It would be also possible to create variation by making some leaders especially tolerant (just lower values for different ideology without increasing the positive effect) or ones which don't like you a lot for sharing their view, but hating you for being different.

And if Gaians, Believers, Hive and University care a lot for this things...then I would say the other three shouldn't - I could imagine something along these lines: Morgan wouldn't care either way (same or different religion gives no bonus/malus, he is just interested in making profit), Lal would like you a bit better if you share his religion, but he would be tolerant if you differ (no penalty), while Santiago would mainly feel threatened by a difference (without a lot impact, if you share her view)
I think for Morgan and Lal civics should matter more...and for Santiago... I would love to emphasize her militaristic character even more (e.g. likes you for shared wars).

 

[Maniac]

It would be also possible to create variation by making some leaders especially tolerant (just lower values for different ideology without increasing the positive effect) or ones which don't like you a lot for sharing their view, but hating you for being different.

Is this already possible in the XML?

 

[Pfeffersack]

Is this already possible in the XML?

Yes. Another thing I would like to change is how fast the attitude drops or improves - I think the more passionate leaders should react faster (thats also already in the XML, just not used by BtS)

 

[slugwalk]

Makes sense. However this distinction in view can't be used in the game (at least not with the leaderhead.xml; all you can do is set how big the initial impact is, how big the impact overtime can be and how fast the latter sets it)...so the next question is, if the ideological/phislosophical view would be as fanatic. It would be also possible to create variation by making some leaders especially tolerant (just lower values for different ideology without increasing the positive effect) or ones which don't like you a lot for sharing their view, but hating you for being different.

And if Gaians, Believers, Hive and University care a lot for this things...then I would say the other three shouldn't - I could imagine something along these lines: Morgan wouldn't care either way (same or different religion gives no bonus/malus, he is just interested in making profit), Lal would like you a bit better if you share his religion, but he would be tolerant if you differ (no penalty), while Santiago would mainly feel threatened by a difference (without a lot impact, if you share her view)
I think for Morgan and Lal civics should matter more...and for Santiago... I would love to emphasize her militaristic character even more (e.g. likes you for shared wars).

Cool ideas! I think the Believers would care the most (the ideology gets incorporated into the religion) if you believe the same or differ. I don't really see the University as being any more ideological than the Morganites. Also, perhaps the unhappiness penalties of multiple ideologies in a city should be larger for factions that care more.

 

[Maniac]

Yes. Another thing I would like to change is how fast the attitude drops or improves - I think the more passionate leaders should react faster (thats also already in the XML, just not used by BtS)

AFAIK the reason why Firaxis added a couple turns before you get the full bonus/penalty for religion sharing/differences, is to discourage frequent religion switching. The more passionate leaders would not look well upon ideological flipfloppers, so I would argue it should take MORE time with them before you reach the maximum positive relationship bonus. That eventual bonus should of course be higher than the leaders who don't care as much.

 

[Pfeffersack]

AFAIK the reason why Firaxis added a couple turns before you get the full bonus/penalty for religion sharing/differences, is to discourage frequent religion switching. The more passionate leaders would not look well upon ideological flipfloppers, so I would argue it should take MORE time with them before you reach the maximum positive relationship bonus. That eventual bonus should of course be higher than the leaders who don't care as much.

I haven't looked at it this way, but what you say makes perfectly sense for the relation bonus. For the malus OTOH, I would prefer to do it the other way - Miriam or Deidre should get quickly mad if you leave "the way".

 

[GeoModder]

An idea: instance of immediately suggesting concrete faction benefits, how about we try to define how we want a game with a faction to feel like? We can then try to translate that general feeling into game concepts.

Let me try a stab on the Peacekeepers:

I see this faction as doing well on the life sciences, therefore:

• Increased (double?) production time for some of the earlier facilities that give extra health (infirmary, hydro plant, research hospital, and the rec commons too ).
• Transport-capable units get a free medic promotion.
• Increased healing speed for damaged units in friendly territory.
• Increased war-wariness for when going to war with a faction which is using favourite civic(s) of the Peacekeepers.

This way their population could be growing a bit faster, and the medic stuff reflects their humanitarian nature in saving lifes whenever possible by keeping adequate equipment around where-ever there's sufficient cargo space.

The Gaians could take the Planet approach:

• Or +1 Planet Value or double Planet Value (that green heart icon) for every building that gives extra Planet Value.
• +5% Psi Defense (the thing that Hypnotic Trance promo offers) for all non-mechanical units. That's for bred native life and infantry units thus.
• -5% :espionage point cost for probe team actions. Call it a side-effect of empathy.
• Centauri Ecology grants +1 to the Fungus plots in base range.

 

[Keeper_GFA]

Let me try a stab on the Peacekeepers:
Transport-capable units get a free medic promotion.

Don't most (all?) of them get this already?

Increased war-wariness for when going to war with a faction which is using favourite civic(s) of the Peacekeepers.

I'd say increased war-weariness period. The word "peace" is in their name after all.

The Gaians could take the Planet approach: +1 Planet Value or double Planet Value (that green heart icon) for every building that gives extra Planet Value.

Having just finished a full game as the Gaians, I can safely say that increasing the Planet friendly bonus in any way would probably be early overkill and late unnecessary. I finished the game with an 8 something Planet rating, which would have been double digits if I hadn't started next to the borehole cluster.

Centauri Ecology grants +1 to the Fungus plots in base range.

Fungus includes Hybrid Forests, right? This would be a welcome addition to anyone playing Hybrid.

 

[Maniac]

I haven't looked at it this way, but what you say makes perfectly sense for the relation bonus. For the malus OTOH, I would prefer to do it the other way - Miriam or Deidre should get quickly mad if you leave "the way".

Yeah I agree.

[*]Increased healing speed for damaged units in friendly territory.

Sounds good. I definitely need to give the Peacekeepers a unique building replacing the Genejack Factory. I could let that building give increased healing.

The Gaians could take the Planet approach:

• Or +1 Planet Value or double Planet Value (that green heart icon) for every building that gives extra Planet Value.
• +5% Psi Defense (the thing that Hypnotic Trance promo offers) for all non-mechanical units. That's for bred native life and infantry units thus.

• 
  
  The same gameplay effect is already reached by their current +2 Planet as far as I can see.
  
  

  -5% :espionage point cost for probe team actions. Call it a side-effect of empathy.

  
  I was thinking I could add a Psion unit which used your total accumulated Planet (same value which determines if you can capture native life) to perform certain espionage missions.
  
• Centauri Ecology grants +1 to the Fungus plots in base range.[/QUOTE]
  
  That does not fit with the intention to keep Hybrid bases generally at a relatively small size.
  
  

  Don't most (all?) of them get this already?

  
  I intend to remove that though. However while increased healing in their territory fits for the Peacekeepers, also giving them faster healing outside their territory, might make them too good at warfare.

 

[GeoModder]

Well, I suppose one out of eight proposed items isn't bad to be included in the mod...

 

[Maniac]

It's more than most people get.

 

[Panopticon]

Great thread title.

Re the earlier discussion, Movements may be a better description than Religions. Some are clearly philosophies, and atheist ones at that (e.g. Homo Superior). None requires belief in a supernatural force. They resemble religions in the sense that they provide followers and factions with a sense of meaning.

 

[orlanth]

I like L T's suggestion of "Paradigm". sounds science-fictiony.

Speaking of the within-territory healing increase, it should also be doable for a faction/building/resource etc to decrease the healing rate of enemy units within their territory (a la FFH Entropy Mana). Anyone think of interesting ways something like this would fit the fluff - perhaps underground Hive resistance menaces supply lines to prevent attackers from healing in the field, or Gaian Hybrid Forest lightly damages invading units?

 

[orlanth]

Here's an idea I think would be worth trying to make faction gameplay really unique :

Faction-dependent bonuses or penalties from running the economy at a certain % of gold/science/influence/espionage.

Morgan would want to take at least some % as profit for capital formation, and not be content with plowing 100% of his revenue into research no matter how many trade routes he has. He can still choose to spend heavily on science/espionage/etc when the situation warrants, but not without some discontent on the Board of Directors..

Miriam would get a bonus (perhaps extra in cities) from investing at least a certain % in influence to Spread The Word. Intensive science spending or dividend reinvestment, not as appealing for her.

Contrarily, if Zakharov runs things well enough to afford keeping science spending maxed out, the Faculty is delighted with his leadership and give him a free hand with his policies. If the University budget drops below 50% science to meet near term gold/influence/espionage goals, the Faculty start to bitterly complain about the time and resources being diverted from their true calling.

Its a dramatic enough gameplay tweak (yet achievable and familiar to Civ4, in effect the existing Theater mechanic in vanilla Civ) that it could be worth giving it a try. Perpetually slogging the slider at whatever max % science you can happen to afford has been a no-brainer generic decision for far too long. Whaddaya think?