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Original Thread Discussion (Continued)

Discussion in 'Civ4 - MongooseMod' started by LunarMongoose, Jul 5, 2010.

  1. LunarMongoose

    LunarMongoose Chieftain

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    You know, there's a decent number of people who've downloaded the latest version at this point, all things (*cough* Civ5 *cough*) considered; would it kill you guys to keep posting thoughts, comments, ideas, and especially just how your games with it are going?

    Perhaps even... *gasp*... some people besides the regular few who post here a lot?! Not that I don't wanna hear from you guys too of course.

    Now, if it actually would kill you to post, that's fine, and I certainly don't want to put anyone's lives in jeopardy. (Except in-game... mwa ha ha.) But the other subforums have so much activity... do you really want to let them win? Where's your forum spirit? Hmm... Maybe I should print some MongooseMod t-shirts.
     
  2. brun58

    brun58 Chieftain

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    Still having fun with it, although I might be considered on of the regular posters in your forum...lol.
     
  3. LunarMongoose

    LunarMongoose Chieftain

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    Wow, that was quick. :)

    Indeed thou art, but as I hath stated previously, that is NOT! ... a problem.

    And yet, a giant void doth fill thy post. Details, man; details! Perchance even screenshots! (Oh, the horror.) Aye... write like your video-gaming soul depends on it. Flood the forum with your mod experiences that cut a blazing path through the fabric of reality itself!

    ... Or don't, that's fine too.
     
  4. brun58

    brun58 Chieftain

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    Well....still a bit too early to be much of a detail man right now( I'm central time...lol), but I've always been a big fan of your mod, pretty much played it since your early version, and as always appreciate the work you put into it, still haven't recovered from the Great Recession( meaning I haven't had any luck finding new work yet after the plant I worked at closed), so even if I wanted it I couldn't afford Civ 5 right now anyways, so I really do value the work that you and other modders do to keep 4 fresh and playable. No real complaints as far as the latest version, you take great care with your work I think, so haven't had any real problems with it.
     
  5. LunarMongoose

    LunarMongoose Chieftain

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    lol... Thanks... I kinda meant details about your actual Civ4/MM games though. What map scripts you're using, what difficulty levels, what game options, how many players, who killed who most recently, how you most owned or got owned lately, that sort of thing. :D

    Sorry to hear about your situation btw... But don't worry about not having Civ5. The whole reason I haven't touched modding with it, and probably never will, is b/c it's a terrible game, and probably beyond saving with mods.
     
  6. LunarMongoose

    LunarMongoose Chieftain

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    Woohoo, (finally) passed 100 downloads on the current version! Given the overall lack of interest in Civ4 these days that seems pretty respectable, though it could also be terrible, I don't really know. ;)

    You guys sure aren't stampeding each other to death to be the first ones to recount your glorious experiences with the mod on here, though. I reiterate my previous threat: don't make me make MongooseMod t-shirts and start offering them as free rewards to those who keep their lord and master inspired with forum posts, cuz I will do it...

    Okay maybe not. But don't try your luck! :p
     
  7. LunarMongoose

    LunarMongoose Chieftain

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    On second thought, it's admittedly possible to get Space Exploration much sooner than the other Future Era techs that unlock military units. I'm thinking of adding some additional tech requirements to either the Dimensional Gate, or the Jedi and Sith units themselves (which would allow the requirements to be different, though that would make less sense). I don't want to add them to the tech itself b/c unlocking the Space Elevator is fine where it is. (Though NanoTech really should be required for the elevator realistically... hrm.)

    It also occurs to me just now that SaibotLieh's semi-recent flying female sword ninja cyborg unit would make a good upgrade for the Mercenary. Much as I hate to see Rios and Salem cut out of the endgame military picture, strengths of like, I dunno, 28 and 32 would be a lot better than the current 30 which I had deliberately set too high for the Modern Era so they'd still be viable in the Future Era.

    Blarg. I guess I should try to get another version out before Diablo 3 comes out and I disappear off the face of the planet for 10 years as a result, but I still need Fuyu to do his civic thing. It would help motivation-wise if you guys weren't all completely silent... just saying. ;)

    p.s. - SGU has been really good since the second half of the second season started a few weeks ago, which is unexpected... I'm actually starting to feel sad it got cancelled now. Also, can't wait for Doctor Who Series 6 on bluray though it's a long ways off still, sigh.
     
  8. LunarMongoose

    LunarMongoose Chieftain

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    James here is the latest victim to be sucked up by the Mongoose Soul Vacuum 3000™. I convinced him to try the mod with my formidable psychic powah, then asked him what he thought a few days later by PM, and got a PM back in response. Go phigure. So in a brilliant maneuver to revitalize this hibernating subforum for a few days, I am, with permission, transmogrifying the conversation into a post using my reply to his reply, thusforthly:

    The UI graphics are primarily taken from Planetfall so I really can't claim most of the credit, though the main silver theme color and purple highlight color, the choice of how to use Planetfall's background images, and conversion of one vanilla background image from yellow to gray (the papyrus/crumpled paper of the tech tree), were my doing, heh.

    Disclaimer: Just to be extra clear, where the purple text in the top left of the title screen names other big full mods, that does not mean I fully incorporated those; it means I got enough ideas and/or content from them to warrant crediting them prominently on the title screen. MM is not a full combination of RoM and LoR, for example; there was some confusion about that at one point in the past. ;)

    Thanks though. I really do love my title screen, and am very happy to see it appreciated. :)

    OH! And finally someone who likes my title music, too! *hugs*

    Yeah I'm quite happy with those too. My Prehistoric Era is based on the Stone Age Mod by TheTriturador, but has been modified and simplified to serve more as an integrated "prequel" phase to the game. Some people have expressed their desire to see the time it takes to progress through the Stone Age lengthened to make it a more prominent part of the game, but the problem with that is the Tribe unit, basically. There is already a tradeoff between advanced tech which forces early Settler use, and faster, more efficient early expansion by sticking with Tribes that also requires staying technologically backward. This has been carefully balanced already, and I don't think a longer era will work very well.

    Still, Avain did make a much more in-depth Prehistoric Era for his Quot Capita mod after being inspired by my version (he said so in his credits! *hugs Avain*), and I have yet to get around to really checking it out in detail, so maybe I could figure something out, who knows. I did at least steal his awesome Neanderthal unit (replacing the Karate Werewolf) in version 3.6, so there's that. ;)

    My Future Era was a little bit based on the vanilla Next War mod, obviously, and on bits and pieces here and there from other big mods, but it is more original than my Stone Age is. Especially how most of the futuristic units were implemented - those were all pretty original names, stats, requirements, etc except the Stealth Tank, which I still haven't gotten to test in a real game yet so I'm really hoping the AIs know how to use land stealth properly, heh.

    The Paladin is a generic, non-religious version of a Christian "Knight Templar", which was a real heavy-infantry unit used extensively in the Crusades. The term "paladin" also has historical relevance, so I don't feel bad about this one.

    The Ancient King is a direct, un-subtle reference to Conan. The unit was modeled after Schwarzeneggar from the Conan movies himself (which is stated in the unit's original thread), so I just took the idea a bit further. It fits in the game pretty nicely if you ask me. :p

    An elite woodsman unit put to military use is not something that was ever done, really, but it didn't seem too unrealistic to me, so I threw it in. The Archery tech was awfully thin with just one thing in it before (the Archer unit), and I had cool different stats to give a unit like the Ranger, so I did.

    The Valkyrie was something I just had to add simply b/c of how much I loved the unit model itself when SaibotLieh posted it. This one's completely a fantasy unit, sure, but I allow a bit of that here and there for fun and flavor. I dunno, personal decision. :p And again, it allows for really neat stats on the unit lol.

    Someone did suggest adding a game option to disable these "questionable" units btw. The idea was annoying to me at first, but I'm considering it now, heh.

    This was a real unit, historically. Ancient armies would literally take a herd of pigs, douse them in oil, set them on fire, and let them charge into an enemy line. They spooked all but the best-trained horses, and were especially effective at making enemy war elephants turn and stampede their own troops. The Romans in particular used flaming pigs extensively. Look it up on Wikipedia, or read the thread in the Unit Graphics forum. :)

    The cities are already pretty heavily distinctified with the Cultural Citystyles mod that is in widespread standard use... So I assume you're talking about the units? Admittedly yeah, adding in something like Varietas Delectat or one of the other mods that makes every unit look different for every civilization is something I could do. I tend to lean more towards the vanilla game's approach with them all looking the same just for simplicity (plus vanilla did mix them up a fair bit in Warlords), and I actually already have added different unit graphics a lot in the modern eras where it's vehicles and things which I know a lot more about and feel comfortable adding. But yes, the ancient units could probably use some more work in this area.

    I pretty much left the numerical stats alone for vanilla leaders, giving custom values only to the new leaders the mod adds. (I changed things like the traits, favorite religions and favorite civics around a bit on the vanilla leaders though, as-needed to support the mod's additional content and for improved historical accuracy.)

    Also, some of the most important stats are actually not displayed there (like the ones BBAI added), and some of the stats that are displayed there are not important, or could be combined, or whatever. That display was part of my "update/rewrite the Sevopedia for BtS" project back in 2007, and I have a better understanding of all the leader stats and what they do now than I did then, heh.

    You don't see those stats displayed in other mods b/c other people who took my Sevopedia release and used it tended to customize it a bit. Those stats were deemed ugly and "too much information" and just unnecessary to show, that sort of thing, so they took them out. They also didn't like the smaller leaderhead, which I had to compress to make room for the stats on the page. I am planning to make a Sevopedia update at some point to try and reclaim my ownership of the project with some cool new ideas, but it's a low priority heh.

    Well MM's been in development off-and-on since early 2006 when Civ4 first came out, but it wasn't really anywhere near complete or publically presentable at a professional quality level til last summer with version 3.5 (which still had some major areas of weakness), so you didn't really miss too much. ;) Right now development is paused since 3.6.1 is an extremely stable, complete and happy release, and since ideally I need Fuyu to write his planned civic restriction code first before I post another version. But we'll see. There will definitely be more updates in the future, don't worry.

    And thanks for the positive review, dood... really appreciate it! :) :) :)
     
  9. LunarMongoose

    LunarMongoose Chieftain

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    Just posting a quick update on something. I never had a Sandworm spawn near me in an actual game until now (mainly b/c I hadn't played the game for a while due to the person I play with not being available), so the creature was still unplaytested, really. I had gleefully watched the global alerts come in as worms went to town on AI units and cities before, but that was about it. I knew worms could attack cities when I added them in v3.6, and I knew that might be a problem, but I hadn't actually had to deal with one myself until now. And if you have a moderate-size desert area in your empire, a Sandworm can be devastating. Even more devastating than intended, I mean. ;)

    The worm itself isn't really the problem; it's the combination with normal barbarians. There's not much point giving the creature Cannot Capture Cities when its friend barbs can still capture, which was the problem I didn't foresee. The intent was simply to force you to keep your desert cities empty, use ships to guard them from the water if necessary, and pay the happiness penalties for no garrison... nothing more.

    So, apologies for that oversight. I have changed the Sandworm attribute to "Cannot Attack Cities", and am probably going to kick it up to 2 speed to compensate. This, and a dozen or so other XML tweaks, officially mark the beginning of v3.6.2 development, though there's a lot of hard SDK programming planned for this version and I'm still playing PS3 games a lot at the moment, so it's not going to ramp up to a 24/7 effort for a while yet. The hard deadline for finishing it will obviously be Diablo 3 coming out this fall or winter, so yeah. :)
     
  10. James009

    James009 Chieftain

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    Sorry for the delay in posting, got caught up in Rainbow Six Vegas 2 with co-workers and work. Also, had to finally finish the Matt Smith season of the Doctor ;)

    This isn't too bad of an idea. Another thing you could maybe do is make them a seperate or unique research tech path where they're harder to achieve but grant some pretty unique units and bonuses.



    Yeah, I think I remember these from one of the Total War games or mods.


    Personally, I don't really mind the smaller leaderhead.


    No problem, it always fun playing Civ a new way. Good luck with development!
     
  11. LunarMongoose

    LunarMongoose Chieftain

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    Just a quick post to say I'm still here. This thread is apparently my official blog until further notice, hehe.

    My parents were visiting the last 3 weeks and I've been busier than I thought possible: added "window treatments" to the windows here finally (side curtains, ties, rods, scarfs), switched to a new chiropracter I like a lot better, got started selling my old junk on amazon finally (which is better than eBay in some ways and worse in others), found a bunch of cool jewelry items I just had to have (mostly video-game-related, all cheap cept for one, and mostly for display rather than to wear, don't worry), got some new clothes (mostly shirts since I'm losing weight still and new shorts wouldn't fit later), continued to lose weight as I just mentioned (woohoo), managed to get out to practice my unremarkable tennis game almost every two days, made some more progress in Disgaea 3 (must finish for good before Disgaea 4 comes out in September!), inched closer to Diablo 3 coming out (this is a freebie since all you have to do is somehow get through time, mwa ha ha), AND got a bunch of new big and small lamps for the condo (which it badly needed).

    Version 3.6.2 is still going to happen, and the quick/easy parts have already happened locally. I may even reorganize this subforum to make better use of the space, since hardly anyone is bothering to post here as it is... gotta do somethin'. :) I'm still gonna be wicked-busy for a couple more weeks first though (sorry).

    And thanks to the 6 people who just downloaded the mod today - the counter had been stalled at 1222 for a while, and I'm daring to hope this means a wonderful new multiplayer game is commencing! Though I could easily be wrong!
     
  12. fallen_addict

    fallen_addict Chieftain

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    Just saying I'm still here and playing 3.6.1

    Hard to find a modder so keen and invested in their mods. For your enthusiasm and hard work in perfecting this, thank you!

    Reading up above... MAN I have come to hate sandworms. Had two spawn just near my empire in the early and they acted as a cage... by the time I had the resources to eliminate them, the other civs were too far ahead.

    Ok.. this may mean I suck, rather than the sandworms being the problem.
     
  13. LunarMongoose

    LunarMongoose Chieftain

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    Thanks dood, appreciate it. :)

    I doubt it was your fault, and even if it was, like I said above, they weren't meant to be quite this devastating. Getting both of them together is very bad luck too of course. What map size were you using? Just curious. I might also reduce the worm limit from 2 to 1 on smaller maps, that's a good idea too. :)
     
  14. AIAndy

    AIAndy Chieftain

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    Thanks for your effort in making the mod.
    I am playing it in MP with 2 others and no OOS up to now which is great compared to some other mods we tried.

    Some comments (more some time later):
    We currently play with PW Mongoose map script on standard map size with quick speed.
    The advance in years seems to be too fast. We were in a year past 1900 still with medieval technology (somewhere around turn 170 or so). Or maybe we were just bad in getting a good economy going early.

    There is nearly no unit that does not require copper or iron (at least in the ages we got to yet) and those resources are not necessarily anywhere closeby.

    2 and more turns of anarchy are quite a high price to pay for civic changes on quick speed. In addition to their gold cost I don't think the early civics are worth it. Is it possible to cut the anarchy time on quick speed by 2?
     
  15. LunarMongoose

    LunarMongoose Chieftain

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    Thanks for posting dood, and thanks for the comments; this sort of info is often very helpful. :)

    The current year progression sequence has only been heavily tested on Eternal speed, so it could easily be my fault and not yours. ;) I tried to create sequences for the faster speeds based on my Eternal year progression, but it's very possible the tech speeds aren't synced up and that the problem has more to do with that. I dunno, so I'll try to do some more complex calculations to get a better idea of what's going on and see if I can't improve things.

    Isn't it great? Strategic resources that actually matter!!! (I always felt they were too easy to come by in vanilla, since I had no trouble getting almost all of them every game pretty effortlessly. Now you might actually have to fight wars to gain control of them!)

    It is not really the case though that the units require copper and iron more than they do in the vanilla game: none of my Stone Age units do, the special Valkyrie and Ranger units don't, Archers and Longbows still don't, Bronze Spears/Axes and Iron Swordsmen still do which is normal, Crossbows still do, Maces can still use either one as in vanilla, I added Pallies, yeah, but they're just an extension of the Swordsman class really, Cats/Trebs/Rams still don't use anything, and after that you're on to Sulphur, so I don't really understand what you mean, heh.

    I don't remember the numbers exactly off-hand atm, but anarchy durations are drastically reduced in MM versus in the vanilla game. I can double-check the situation on Quick speed specifically, but I think you'll find if you try the same thing without a mod running it'll be even worse. (And if not, I made a mistake. ;))

    Also, you have to keep in mind that the primary ability of the Spiritual leader trait is to remove anarchy, and there's always the Cristo Redentor later on. There has to be some pain to anarchy or else these things don't have enough value in removing it. :) I know what you mean though, and I do realize 2 turns is a much higher percentage of the total turn count on Quick than it is on Eternal. It's not meant to be crippling - I always thought the vanilla anarchy times were too high. I'll take a look when I have time.
     
  16. AIAndy

    AIAndy Chieftain

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    Before playing this mod we played lots of BtS vanilla games and the anarchy time on quick is 1 turn of anarchy per 2 civic changes.
    There needs to be pain in anarchy. It needs to be balanced towards the gain you get from civics though. Who would pay 2 turns of anarchy on quick plus a gold price per turn for +1 health in all cities?

    I fully agree that it is good that they matter. The difference between having and not having is a bit too large though.
    The problem I had was that the middle of a larger continent was wilderness. One other player on the far side. That produced a constant stream of barbarians moving towards our cities (around 2 reaching me per turn). Defense was quite ok with archers but only in cities. There was no bronze nearby and the iron was quite a bit away. Apart from the one Valkyrie I had no better unit for a long time while the barbarians upgraded to iron units. Strength 6 against strength 3 it is quite hard to push the barbarians far enough back to get the iron resource. I only got it done when I got war elephants as I happened to have ivory.
    What I miss is one offensive unit not requiring resources somewhere past the stone age. Even if it is weaker.
    Don't get me wrong. It was an interesting experience but if there would have been another player with either bronze or iron nearby he could have crushed me easily.
    Btw, macemen in vanilla BtS do not require a resource.

    More comments:
    The change in costs at the end of the stone age is quite drastic. That might work better with some smoothing. I especially consider the tribe unit as too cheap. It has no downside compared to the settler unit except that you can have only one at a time but then it is not too often that you have more than one settler at a time.

    Mushrooms and Corals play a big role in early economy/city growth. If you have some near your starting point or not can easily double your early growth. Land without forest is rare at the start with PW Mongoose so it is not common that you have 3 food land without having mushrooms and you can also build cities directly on mushrooms without losing the advantage. Additional cities are expensive at the start as with all that forest land that gives commerce is rare except for corals which give a major amount of commerce. While corals only give 1 food, their commerce more than makes up for it.
    So while there are lots of hammers at the start, there is little food and commerce which means a civilization which starts near them has a big starting advantage over one which does not. This is amplified by the need to build improvements with gold as soon as you reach the tech to build workers (although you can delay it a bit and build at least lumberyards with gatherers).
    I'd suggest adding the possibility to convert hammers to gold at a percentage to a stone age tech (similar to meager wealth and the like in some other mods).
     
  17. LunarMongoose

    LunarMongoose Chieftain

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    Alright, I probably screwed something up in the anarchy length scaling for other game speeds then. Like I said, I'll take a look. :)

    The healthcare civics are not necessarily meant to be used early on. They're provided as an extra way to get health empire-wide if you ever need it at any point in the game, with costs that scale based on how much health you want to buy. They just happen to unlock more-or-less in sequential order, with the earliest being available quite early. (There's a reason this is the only civic category with no great wonder that unlocks the whole group - it's a supplemental category only. ;))

    As to the other early civics sucking, well, I know from my games that the early-version-of-Vassalage one is definitely useful as-is. The religion one, eh, that was more me trying to come up with clever ideas for bonuses so I could include another civic, and it could probably stand to be buffed. And I think those were about it for new early ones I added. Also please be aware I'm not necessarily happy with the civics yet, and am hoping to overhaul the whole system at some point, but they're working fine for now and it's not an easy system to overhaul, heh.

    I understand the pain you had on copper and iron, but this is really not something I'm interested in changing. They don't get defense bonuses, but Catapults were actually made more combat-worthy to help out with this sort of thing, and the mounted units also work great... usually you can get horses if you don't have the metals. You can also try to trade for them. The large wilderness would be more an issue with the mapscript (though it produces a wide variety of areas and you can start in all kinds of situations), and I still have to balance around other map generators too. :)

    The cost bump at the end of Prehistoric was intentional. The whole Stone Age era was intended, in my version anyway, to be a relatively-quick "prequel" to the main game. Other mods have made it more substantial, and time-consuming to get through, but I wanted it to be fairly fast (circa 100 - out of 1800 I think? - turns on Eternal), then jump into the normal gameplay. Also, I did give the first Ancient tech column an intermediate set of prices to bridge the two, as it is.

    I agree the mushroom/food thing might be problematic, and I can probably do what you're asking for, yeah. :) Though the much lower base happiness allowance does make growth beyond size 3-4 impractical, unless you're Charismatic, until you get well into the Ancient era and can start harvesting luxuries... This was my attempt to offset the problem, heh.

    As far as Tribes go, I'd be willing to increase their cost some, but I've found there are basically two strategies you can follow early on, and that it works out really nicely:

    1) Rush straight to Settlers, try to get the free tech for being first to Sedentary, maybe get the Jingu wonder, maybe get an early lead on building Stonehenge and the Oracle, and found two of the earliest religions which is also a big advantage, BUT be stuck with fewer cities due to the higher cost of Settlers (typically I have 3-4 cities when I'm well into Ancient doing it this way, and only 5-6 at a similar point in time the other way, even with Tribes as cheap as they are).

    OR, 2), you can get almost every tech that can be gotten without getting Sedentary in order to maximize the time you have with Tribes being available, before finally moving on. This approach gets you a couple more cities, but you find yourself way behind in tech, tile improvements, wonders, and religions, and it takes a while to catch back up.

    My own heavy playtesting, admittedly only on Eternal speed, has shown these two strategies to be roughly equal and balanced as things currently are, but I'm always open to feedback. :) (I do quickly start making Settlers in at least two cities simultaneously when I get them btw, til I'm up to 8-10 cities usually, especially when doing strategy 1.)
     
  18. AIAndy

    AIAndy Chieftain

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    With the anarchy time lower they should be fine. At least that also means there is a trade off and choice which is good.
    While we are talking about civics, most of the unlockers are fine but the silk road might be overpowered. The effect of the late game trade civics is big. Like one game I got environmentalism early with that wonder and went for an economy with lots of forest preserves. That means you can get quite huge cities with all the happiness and health from the civic. It is interesting in a way but I am not sure if that is balanced.

    Unfortunately I did not have horses either. But yes, it is kind of interested that you have to hunt for those resources early.
    Btw, I would love an option to have barbarian spawning rates somewhere in between vanilla and your new difficulty settings. Or maybe one that still spawns barbarians in wilderness areas but does not beeline them to the next cities unless they are within a certain distance.

    I guess it feels less abrupt on eternal speed. On quick the stone age is over quite fast and you usually still research one technology per turn towards its end. But then that is why it is "quick" :)

    How do you get your economy running early? I seem to lack the commerce to run more than 4 cities until I can both remove forest and build some cottages (or build the colossus) unless I have a lot of corals or some high commerce resources.
     
  19. LunarMongoose

    LunarMongoose Chieftain

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    Oh, it's definitely overpowered lol. Been saying I was worried about that one for a while now in this thread lol. I'm going to do something about it, just haven't decided what yet. :)

    You know, you could just use the normal difficulty settings in that case... They've been tweaked as needed to support the mod, and they're there as legitimate options; I just added mine to provide more options. :)

    The way the barb aggro works is the same as a normal AI player: if the Barbarian Empire as a whole can see a target (from vision from any barb unit), then all barbs know about it (including the animals and sea monsters, who ignore player cities but still target player units).

    Barb units don't operate independently and autonomously, in other words; they're the army of a single civilization that is subject to different empire-level rules than normal. I suppose it wouldn't be too hard to change this though actually... hmm. Interesting idea for a new game option. ;) (Though I wouldn't use it myself... we always play with the Raging Barbs option on for maximum carnage lol.)

    I place cities based on the commerce they can bring in early on... the better early-commerce ones get priority for being founded first, unless there's a resource I urgently need (like Stone). I try to put as many cities on rivers as possible. Corals are wonderful, yes, but often not in starting-border range, and even without them there's usually a good lake or two nearby. Ordinary coastal cities work too if you just put all the workers on Coast tiles. They can't get anything built that way, but it keeps the empire commerce high enough til it's on its feet so the coastal cities can then switch to higher food and hammer tiles. ... That's what I do, anyway.
     
  20. AIAndy

    AIAndy Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2011
    Messages:
    3,403
    We played with normal difficulty settings next but I got next to no barbs then. Probably because there was also no large wilderness on that continent. It was boring in comparison. So I prefer your settings with maybe some tweak setting to prevent large wilderness parts to amplify the beeline quite that much.
     

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