OSG 24 - The Guns of Sssla

[RefSteel]

jmas: Sure; a scanner and laser fit just fine on a destroyer, as long as it doesn't have reserve tanks. In fact, we can make one of these if we feel like it:



I think I'd prefer to wait until some further tech comes in though, and build one with a Scanner, Reserve Tanks, and a single laser (not quite possible right now). In any case, we won't get details of the currently-inbound ship: Even the 12 PewPewPew reinforcements won't arrive in time to help stop the Nexus. Which raises a question: We have 68 fighters sitting over that world, and there's no colship with the Nexus. If the ship attacks instead of retreating, is scouting prevention worth the relations hit (and the lost fighters; we will lose some, at least!) that would ensue if we blow up the ship?

Maniac & everyone: If we do have Rad in our tree, I could make a massive investment and we could potentially research it pretty quickly. If we don't, I'll probably reduce the Toxic defenses to token forces (we can always invade later in the game, assuming eventual war with the Silicoids, if we can steal or trade-for Tox or Rad from somebody) but if we do, is it worth at least trying? Note the one known Toxic that still lacks a colony is Ajax, a Rich 15 beyond the UPs.

Finally: I'm inclined to start Espionage on the Silis, at least once RC3 comes in for computer tech parity. They've got Duralloy, II7, Range 6, Hand Lasers, and IT+10 and +20 (we have no terraforming yet). Oh, and AMR, which we've barely started, and would let us skip to the third rung in our Weapons tree. If others think it's not worth the possibility of a war, please chime in!

I'll probably play sometime tomorrow - possibly late since I work until 8PM PST - as right now I need some sleep, and in any case, I'm hoping for some discussion. As a rough draft though:

Goals for my turn set, 2380-2390:

1) Complete research in Controlled Inferno Environment and seed the new research project.
2) Colonize Beta Ceti, Dolz, Jinga, AND Antares. (Wish me luck on Jinga and Beta Ceti!)
3) Complete research in Improved Industrial Tech 8 and Robotic Controls III, preferably in that order or on the same turn, and make a sizable investment in Inertial Stabilizer.
4) Build a bunch more factories on Vega and (especially) Endoria
5) Don't lose any worlds, and try not to lose a Galactic Election (which is likely to come during my turns)
6) Have fun doing it and (especially) writing the report!


First steps: Kill espionage spending on the Silis for now; landing a spy with one race increases the cost of the first spy for each race below it on the same turn because of a bug in the game, so I'll plant spies one at a time. Design a huge placeholder as an Inferno colship pre-build and stick it in the queue at mature worlds near our target planets. Adjust sliders so each planet is mainly doing just one thing at at time and nobody's overspending (to the extent I can prevent it) on planetology. Reduce Planetology spending in favor of ship prebuilding since the tech is already well into the percentages (this means fiddling with planetary sliders and tech sliders of course) and increase Propulsion spending to receive maximum tripling benefits. Don't end turn yet, awaiting discussion. (Besides, I may think about moving our ships around a little.)

All right. Did I miss anything?

 

[jmas]

Thank you Ref for pointing that out about the destroyer. I agree that reserve tanks would be helpful and probably worth waiting to fit on there.

I advocate fighting the Meklar Nexus; my hunch is that it's winnable. If they have a class 2 shield-- which you would probably notice by the very small amount of damage inflicted on the first shot-- then it might call for an assessment of whether it's time to run. For comparison, starting with 56 fighters in the nebula, several of which went down to missiles, we were doing some 30 to 40 damage per shot, and it's a 100hp ship.

EDIT: Also, at Antares the colship that the Nexus was escorting was also armed and was responsible for taking out at least a couple of the seven fighters that we lost there. Here there is no colship.

I pretty much always make a play for Rich, Ultra Rich, or Artifacts planets. I am a little concerned in this case due to the combination of 1) the very small base size and 2) us not having any IT tech so far. But even if IT +30 is not in our tree, we could steal or maybe trade for one of the lesser ones. However, if others don't want to pursue the Toxic planet aggressively then that's okay by me also.

 

[RefSteel]

But even if IT +30 is not in our tree, we could steal or maybe trade for one of the lesser ones.

In fact, according to [EDIT: Maniac]'s report, IT+30 is in our tree, and might be worth going back for if we don't get something better first. No danger of going completely without terraforming.

 

[ToddMarshall]

In fact, according to [EDIT: Maniac]'s report, IT+30 is in our tree, and might be worth going back for if we don't get something better first. No danger of going completely without terraforming.

There's never that danger. Complete Terraforming is one of 4 techs you'll always get =P (along with Neutronium Armor, High Energy Focus, and the Dread Class II Deflectors). Yes, I know you meant no danger of going without in a bit nearer term than before finishing the tree...

RE: Colships iirc you have 4 maxed out planets. One nearest each of out target worlds. I'd make one colship at each of the 4, just leaving a tiny bit of clicks in research. The tech should hit in the 5-6 turns before a colship completes. If not, shut it down at each planet before the colship completes, then you can make them all the turn after the tech hits. That's how I'd do it at least.

 

[RefSteel]

There's never that danger. Complete Terraforming is one of 4 techs you'll always get =P (along with Neutronium Armor, High Energy Focus, and the Dread Class II Deflectors). Yes, I know you meant no danger of going without in a bit nearer term than before finishing the tree...

Heh. Indeed.

RE: Colships iirc you have 4 maxed out planets. One nearest each of out target worlds. I'd make one colship at each of the 4, just leaving a tiny bit of clicks in research. The tech should hit in the 5-6 turns before a colship completes. If not, shut it down at each planet before the colship completes, then you can make them all the turn after the tech hits. That's how I'd do it at least.

I plan to do a version of this: I've got Trax and Esper at maximum ship spending while letting Sssla and Tau Cygni handle our research for now, to ensure the fastest possible colonization of actually-threatened worlds. As techs hit the percentages, I'll switch the research planets back toward shipbuilding, and as ship investments near the 670 BC I expect our Inferno laser boats to cost, I'll ship the ship worlds back toward research.

 

[ToddMarshall]

Jinga is also an actually threatened world. Maybe start Tau Cygni on shipbuilding as well. The inferno world is not threatened yet, however, so you're right that it can wait.

BTW, I've not given up all hope of grabbing the UP's either, particularly the backline one, but we'll need to secure the UR planet first of course.

 

[Catwalk]

I'm against racing for Radiated tech, especially since we have no terraforming tech yet. If we manage to grab the planets we're currently gunning for, our land grab should be sufficient. What kind of defenses are we planning on in the near future? Will Shield 2 and Hyper-V be of any use, or do we need to tech up fast?

 

[ToddMarshall]

Shield 2 and Hyper V look like they will be of use for longer than usual, which is still not to say very long. I agree we need more weapons and ff soon.

I agree racing to Radiated for one size 15 planet we probably wouldn't get anyway would be ill advised. Even if we did get it, it wouldn't be worth the investment in defenders alone. Defending the nebula planet will already be a demand on resources. I'd grab the UPs if they let us, but otherwise, I'm happy if we get 10 good planets considering our start location, tech tree, and restrictions

IMO Ideally, we'd get a missile in the next tier, or if no missiles, then Neutron Blasters, but there better be a missile or we could be in some trouble. Unable to make good bases or fighters...

 

[Catwalk]

Ah, I forgot about the nebula. That will work to our advantage when we go to war, it's way easy to wipe out nebula bases

Will we need better force fields? I kind of want to gamble on peace for a while longer, upgrading our infrastructure massively with the impending IT+30, IRC3 and IIT8 techs. In case we do go to war we usually get fair warning before much happens, letting us scramble.

I suggest the following order of priorities for the near future:
1) Colonize
2) Missile upgrade
3) 2-3 bases on developed planets
4) Factories
5) Better armour and shields
6) Terraforming
7) More factories

Any thoughts?

 

[ToddMarshall]

Yes, we need better force fields. Not more than we need those 4 planets, or weapons, but we still need better force fields. Ideally, we'll be at peace for a long while yet, but that isn't completely under out control.

I'd expect we'll have most of our planets maxed in robotics factories during your turn. Probably not in terraforming robotics ones though. I'd hope we get Terra + 40 factories, but we dono yet.

 

[RefSteel]

Historical Overview: The Reign of Gunsslinger RefSsteel II

Gunsslinger-elect RefSsteel II took the High Sseat in a time of change and upheaval - much of it caused by his own new policies.

All right, let'ss sscramble, everybody! Orders jusst came through: With ship production sspiking here and a relief fleet about to arrive, we're all bound for Endoria!

What'ss that, Enssign Iyeehelpuss? Yess, of course it'ss right by the contessted Beta Ceti ssysstem, and yess, of course the orders mean all of uss! Unlesss one of uss is a coward!

...

Okay, fine, yess, Ensign Iyeehelpuss; that means all of uss but you.

Everyone in the Sakkra empire was waiting in breathless anticipation of dire events that might plunge the empire into a dark age.

It'ss been too quiet. Jusst wait. I'll bet after all my planning, Tau Cygni exhausstss itss mineral ssupply thiss year. It ... <RUMBLE> What on Sssla?! Grab onto ssomething, everyone! What'ss going on?!(gape) Is ... is the ssun ssuposed to move that way?....

What the Gunsslinger failed to recall was that the sun's motion, as such, isn't actually visible from the surface of its orbiting worlds. What he witnessed was an unprecedented movement of the planet itself.

Even the GNN reporter's jaw dropped. A good event?! For the Sakkra?! Surely there must be some mistake! And yet there their homeworld stood: A fertile world with space for 125 million lizards. Factory building immediately resumed on Sssla, just quickly enough to keep abreast of expected population growth, in spite of the delay they would cause for new colony bases. The backline world of Vega was ordered to (sort of) compensate by devoting some of its own energies to developing new technology.

In 2382, as predicted by the sitting Gunsslinger, a Nexus cruiser arrived at the Jinga system. Sixty-eight PewPewPew fighters scrambled to intercept. The Nexus opened up with its nuclear missile launcher, but it had a payload of only two missiles, and the PewPewPews were able to evade the second completely. It followed this up by closing for a barrage of heavy laser fire, but never managed to destroy more than two of the nimble PewPewPews between recharges, while concentrated laser fire from a cloud of over 60 PewPewPews stripped away more than a third of its armor with each volley. Only five of the fighters were lost in the course of the battle, and the Nexus fell burning to the icy surface of Jinga IV. Moments later however, as predicted by nobody whatever...



...two Nexus cruisers arrived at Ajax! The pair of Ssentry destroyers in the system were wholly inadequate to deal with the threat, and retreated, ceding scouting reports of the local rich, toxic planet in the system.

Thiss is prescisely the reason I regard Beta Ceti as a more sserioussly threatened planet than Jinga. While both can be reached by our alien ... friends ... at leasst when they move on Jinga, we'll be able to ssee them coming!

Fortunately for the Sakkra, the Silicoids had not timed a colony fleet to arrive at Ajax at the same time as their Meklar allies' cruisers - though for a fearful period before the astronomers' reports arrived, the Gunsslinger feared they had! For 2382 was also the year of the first Galactic Election, pitting the Silicoid autocrat Igneus against his Meklar counterpart, M5-35.



Faced with a choice of tyrants, the Sakkra people refused to participate, while the Klackon queen - holding five votes, like the lizards themselves - and the Human Dictator with his three, both refused to vote on the grounds that they had not been nominated to rule the galaxy. With seven votes apiece, the Gunsslinger's Meklar and Silicoid neighbors split almost half the galaxy's population between them - only the Bulrathi warlord, carrying four votes, voted for his stony allies.

There followed years of quiet development, and RefSsteel narrowly won his re-election bid in 2385 in spite of grumblings around the empire about his scientific projects - none of which had come to fruition, though Sakkra engineers reported an ever-increasing chance each year for each - but the grumbling grew more pronounced as yet more years passed with no breakthrough. Then, at last, in 2387...

At lasst, Chief Sscientisst Lotssofchansces! How can we implement environmental controls for inferno worlds?

...

What do you mean, "What environmental controls"?!



<Distinctive sounds of a chair being hurled across the room and the implosion of an Official Electronic Monitor Screen.>

What'ss that, Chief Advisor Whatssit? Scertainly not; I didn't want to waste a perfectly good bullet on that thing.

Nevertheless, the new factory designs were marginally cheaper than the old ones, and the option of researching Reduced Industrial Waste 60% was a welcome change after decades without any waste reduction or cleanup technology.

By the next election however, the Sakkra people had had enough. No longer appeased by the Gunsslinger's assurances that everything possible was being done, they demanded change. They had been promised new colonies at two new worlds by the end of RefSsteel II's second term, with the hope that four might be achieved. They had received not even one - not even the first colony ship that would build one - not even the technology needed for the ship's assembly.



In vain did the Gunsslinger point to the pre-builds he had prepared; in vain did he blame his science staff and an ill-favored deity known only as "The pRNG." In vain did he point to his infrastructure successes - both Fertile Sssla and little Endoria (the latter before its population caught up, in anticipation of factory cost increases after Robotic Control development) were fully equipped with factories. In vain did he point to his military success - a Meklar Devastator cruiser, carrying missiles and heavy lasers like the Nexus, was destroyed over Antares in his final year of office, and an armed colony ship sent limping away. The people voted him down resoundingly, electing Catwalk II to the office of Gunsslinger in a landslide.

RefSsteel II knew when he was defeated, and retired straightaway to the country.

I'll kill them! Those idiot blue-sscaled ninnies! I'll kill them all! ALL of them, I tell you! Again and again and again! I'll figure out how to ressusscitate the dead sso that after I've killed them all, I can kill them again! And AGAIN! And againandagainandagainandagain! Heeeeeeeheeheeeheeheeheeeheehee. What'ss thiss? My milk and cookies? Oh yess. Thankee, thankee. No, no. No need for the hypodermic ssyringe. YOU don't have blue sscales, you ssee! I'll only kill the blue-sscales ones! I'll kill them all - all of them - ALL of them! Heeeeeheeheeheehee...

 

[RefSteel]

Post-Mortem:

Well, I always try to set goals for my turn set that are just at the edge of achievability - so I'm not likely to actually land them all, especially if events transpire that cause me to juggle my priorities - but I didn't expect to fail quite this miserably.

1) Didn't even complete Inferno research. It just stubbornly sat around and wouldn't come in.
2) See 1; for that reason, I didn't build a single colony.
3) Well, I got IIT8, and even seeded RW60 - and the Stabilizer is actually in the percentages already - but we're still waiting on RC3.
4) Done, and then some. (Sssla also needed more facs after going fertile, and it's now maxed out again.)
5) No worlds lost. No election loss. Eh - it's something.
6) Done and done!

Okay, so now that I actually write that up, it isn't as bad as I thought. Just a couple of techs refusing to hit, which happens sometimes; the consequences are bigger than usual, but at least it hasn't (yet) cost us a world!

That said, I should probably have put more of our resources into teching Inferno early in the turnset even though it was well into the percentages. Anyway, we're a little ways behind the AIs.



Admittedly, those are our neighbors, the population leaders, but even so - take a look at this spy report - from the normally-backward Silicoids no less:



Welcome to variant play on Impossible difficulty!

Of course a big part of our problem is the fact that Controlled Inferno - which Maniac hoped would fall during jmas's turn set - has managed to stay incomplete at high and growing percentages, for well over a decade now. We're ready to roll whenever it comes in though:

IMPORTANT DATA FOR MY SUCCESSOR

- There are pre-builds ready at Trax, Esper, and Tau Cygni. When Inferno comes in, if you design a colship with one laser and an inferno base and use it to replace the "Placeholder" design in their queues, all three planets should show that they'll complete one in a single year even if you don't put any further production into ship building. In fact, Esper nearly has enough BCs in its Placeholder to complete 2 Inferno ships with lasers! I intentionally left it short with the intention that Trax would send its colship to Antares, Tau Cygni would send one to Dolz, Esper would RELOC one to Endoria for Beta Ceti, and Esper could then complete another on the following turn, to be sent to Jinga. I've got Tau Cygni putting more BCs into its Placeholder now though, as it would be better (if it takes that long for Inferno to finally fall) for it to build two colships right away, and let Esper just build one. Either way, the other world's leftover BCs can be turned into Colsships for the UP worlds instead.

- We can now build small scouts with Reserve Tanks and lasers if we so desire. We can also build mediums with a laser, tanks, and a battle scanner.

- Most of the fleet that was over at Jinga is now covering Endoria and/or Beta Ceti, on the theory that I could rearrange things if I saw something headed toward Jinga. I'm starting the process of shuffling fighters back there now though (if you approve the way I left the save) because the 'coids have Warp 2 engines, so we can't be sure of outmaneuvering them on the strategic map anymore.

- Investment in RW60 right now is 356 BC. (I don't know the exact figures for any of the other techs.)

- This Silicoid colship just showed up this turn:



Presumably by next turn we'll know roughly where it's going. The Meklar colship in the northern nebula, by contrast, is retreating from our fleet.

Finally: Here's a look at our empire at the end of my turns:



Notice all the factories. Our trade agreements are also in the black, but it's going to be a long time before they pay for our initial investment. We also have a small amount of reserve - twice as much as we had when I started! Um, yay?

And of course the galactic map:



Known homeworlds are underlined; Human colonies have a little dot since they don't have flags (lacking diplo contact). Orion is circled and crossed out by the first letter of its name.

And since the upload server is still down here, the save is over at Realms Beyond!

 

[RefSteel]

I'm on (and nearly at the end of) a break at work, so no time to reply to comments above right now - just to copy & paste the report! I'll add some more comments later today.

 

[Catwalk]

Got it! I shall make an effort to play tomorrow, and will comment tomorrow as well. The report looks impressive as always

 

[ToddMarshall]

Wow, we didn't get inferno in ten turns in the 25% or higher (real #) chance? I'm stunned we still have a chance to settle the Ultra Rich...

After seeing that, I loaded up the save from jmas's turn and did 5 playthrougs. Once it came in turn 1, three times turn 2, and once turn 3. To not have gotten it in TEN turns is just ridiculous of the RNG. I'm starting to get the feeling we may be retrying this, as the game doesn't appear to want us to win.

After looking at the new save, I'd increase the fighters at Antares... though You'd have to use up your placeholder to do it. I'd also increase them at the UR.

 

[codehappy]

RefSteel: brutally bad luck on the (lack of) Inferno pop, also, phooey on the Silly's CPU tech.

 

[RefSteel]

I suggest the following order of priorities for the near future:
1) Colonize
2) Missile upgrade
3) 2-3 bases on developed planets
4) Factories
5) Better armour and shields
6) Terraforming
7) More factories

Any thoughts?

I'd put engines in there somewhere - if Sublights are in our tree, those would be a priority for me. (The reason I invested significantly in a Stabilizer wasn't for the device itself but to get closer to actual engines.) Apart from that though, your plan sounds good.

I'm starting to get the feeling we may be retrying this, as the game doesn't appear to want us to win.

Ha! We can win this thing whether the game wants us to or not! (Although I may eat my words if Inferno takes many MORE turns to come in!)

After looking at the new save, I'd increase the fighters at Antares... though You'd have to use up your placeholder to do it. I'd also increase them at the UR.

This wouldn't be a RefSteel/Maniac game if we didn't have this debate. I actually think we have more than enough fighters already! Using up a colony ship prebuild to build laser fighters that might help if they're needed to hold the planet you want to colonize, when the needed tech is up above "20%" (actually approaching 50) seems insane to me. (Note also it's 2390 and Stabilizer tech is coming in too. Even with the nebula, the era of 1-move laser popguns is ending.)

Another note for Catwalk, in case it wasn't obvious: There will be a galactic election on your last turn (2400) - we probably won't be nominated, fortunately, but it's best to be aware of it (though I suspect you already would have been...).

 

[ToddMarshall]

There's only like 35 fighters there. If they send two mediums with a colship, we lose the planet, even in the nebula. I don't think we can afford to lose any of these 4 planets. Doesn't mean I'm right, this is just how I feel.

EDIT: OK, there's like 50 fighters there. Still not enough IMO

 

[jmas]

I had computer trouble earlier today so I'm just now getting to posting, but I did read the report earlier and I really liked it, so thank you, Ref. I may chime in more later, but I worked the night shift last night and I don't have anything profound to say or anything about our course from here that I feel particularly strongly about, so I'm about to call it a night. Good luck Catwalk! =)

 

[Catwalk]

I tend to lean towards RefSteel's perspective, I want to take a gamble on safety and get our colonization done ASAP. After we've colonized the planets they'll be vastly easier to hold, as we'll just need to protect them from ground invasion (fairly easy as Sakkra, and we can probably shoot down some transports) rather than colonization.

I disagree a little with getting IW60 over IW80, we need cleanup tech badly and we can't quite commit to the cost of IW60 at this time. At a cost of 1000 RP, it's also a good deal for miniaturization.

I'm not sure about engines, I don't feel Sublight are that great. They'll be less efficient power wise than Retro (Nuclear are on par with Retro right away, I believe) and we don't have very large distances to travel at this point. I'll keep investing in Stabilizer and seed Sublight if we get it, but it shouldn't be a high priority when you look at all the other goodies we can get IMHO.

I agree with getting a handful of Medium scanner vessels. Reserve tanks not important IMO, everything important is in range now.