Other branches of the military vs. Marines

[Elgalad]

You know I was thinking that if I were healthy and the draft was going to snatch me (in the event it came back), I might join the marines just to do it right, but after reading that piece of evil I think I'll stick with the army, thanks. Killing's bad enough, but killing and convincing yourself its good is just plain wicked! And not wicked in the "wiickkked!!" sense, but its orriginal meaning.

That is why an all voluntary service is superior to a conscripted one. When young citizens can choose public service out of a sense of duty rather than be forced into it, the Service and the Nation only gain from their Professionalism and Dedication.

But there is no dishonor in Not serving in the nation's armed forces now that the draft is a thing of the past. On the contrary, that Freedom you hold to be able to decide whether you feel called to serve or not, is a gift that has been earned for you by others and it should be cherished. One way to honor that if you do not choose the military, is to do just what you are doing here on this forum. Speak your mind, present your views, fight for those things you value and against those you dread, become educated in current events and history, and stand fast against the evils of ignorance, hatred, intolerance, and prejudice.

And I also humbly ask that you honor the memories of those who have given you this gift.

-Elgalad

 

[MarineCorps]

Much emphasis is often placed on the training Marines go through and it Is rigorous. That is only one aspect of what makes up the spirit of a Marine, but it is the easiest to define...

Look at the recruiting posters and you'll get a little more of the picture. When the Army's slogan was "Be All that you can Be", the Navy's was "It's not just a Job, it's an Adventure", and the Air Force's was "Aim High"; The Marines was "The Few. The Proud. The Marines." Straight up you get this picture: The Army is there to help you grow, learn, become something better. The Navy is there to provide an excellent adventure. The Air Force will help you to achieve lofty goals. And the Marines say, "We dont take everyone because we are very selective. You aren't coming here to Get something, you are coming here to Give something. And it will be worth it."

During boot camp and OCS, you are treated to an incredible culture shock. Your drill instructors will show you on the first day the most effective way to commit suicide and ask that you do so in the shower so that your fellow recruits will have an easier time cleaning up the mess. They berate you and encourage you to quit. They repeat constantly how easy it would be to do so, how all the pain and suffering would end. Those you care about and who care about you are far away. Noone here cares about you, because you are not worth such regard, yet. You lose all identity other than a nickname you are given by your new tormentors. Until the end of basic training, your opinion means nothing. Noone cares what you think. Noone cares who you are. All that matters is that you learn some very basic things.

1) When you are told to do something, you do it Now.
2) Why is no longer in your vocabulary. Only What, When, Where, and How.
3) If you fail to comply, you will cause others to suffer.
4) Life is not fair. Justice is not universal. Pain is the price of success.
5) Duty is a reward, not a goal. Courage is self sacrifice. Honor comes from Fidelity. Glory is never found in one's self, but only in the success of your brothers.
6) You are a weapon. That weapon exists for one purpose only - to preserve a dream of freedom. You will destroy anything that opposes that dream with extreme prejudice and no apologies.
7) The human body is very fragile and easy to break if you know how. Military hardware is not as fragile but no less susceptible to the right methods. Death and destruction are never the goal; They are only the means to victory. The true victory is Peace.

One day finally comes after months of physical and mental abuse and hardship. Your tormentors walk up to you and tell you that you have been judged worthy. They will shake your hand or salute you as appropriate, but in either case, you feel a seachange in your heart. No longer are you one of the masses of civilians. You are now and forever a member of a small elite corps whose lineage stretches far back beyond centuries, beyond even the millenia. Many other names have been given to one such as you..

Spartan
Praetorian
Samurai
Paladin
Musketeer
Janissary
Gurkha

Today you have earned the right to join their proud ranks because today, you Are a Marine.


-Elgalad

As my brother learned this summer at Quantico.

BTW Elgalad your avatar seems to match you perfectly.

@Hygro: There are 4 USMC divisions(3 active one reserve) genrealy a division is 20,000 men. You do the math.

 

[Hygro]

That makes mmuuuch more sense. Even still 80,000 is a lot, but i's not rediculously huge like 200,000 or whatever.

That is why an all voluntary service is superior to a conscripted one. When young citizens can choose public service out of a sense of duty rather than be forced into it, the Service and the Nation only gain from their Professionalism and Dedication.

But there is no dishonor in Not serving in the nation's armed forces now that the draft is a thing of the past. On the contrary, that Freedom you hold to be able to decide whether you feel called to serve or not, is a gift that has been earned for you by others and it should be cherished. One way to honor that if you do not choose the military, is to do just what you are doing here on this forum. Speak your mind, present your views, fight for those things you value and against those you dread, become educated in current events and history, and stand fast against the evils of ignorance, hatred, intolerance, and prejudice.

And I also humbly ask that you honor the memories of those who have given you this gift.

-Elgalad

I like this post. It reflects my thoughts pretty durn well.

i'd like to see how US marines would go against a small, elite force like the SAS or someone like that. can that be arranged, do you think?

Or even any kind of decent opposition.

If the Marines understand geometry that elite force you mentioned doesn't stand a chance!

 

[PantheraTigris2]

That makes mmuuuch more sense. Even still 80,000 is a lot, but i's not rediculously huge like 200,000 or whatever.

You guys seriously don't have a clue what you're talking about. There are between 65-70,000 Marines based at Camp Lejeune alone - NOT counting the adjacent installations (Like Camp Geiger, MCAS New River, MCAS Cherry Point (largest MCAS on east coast), Bogue Field (lol), etc. - all right there co-located in SE North Carolina). Like I said, there were 176,000 on active duty in the late 90s/early 2000s near the end of Clinton's 2nd term - and that was the low point.

If the Marines understand geometry that elite force you mentioned doesn't stand a chance!

That is guaranteed! Ever heard of the 'Math for Marines' MCI!


HEY!! You're in luck... there are some Marines here with me now - to do a jump tonight... and I asked them (we're talkin' senior staff NCO's & Captians) what the latest is (since I've been out for a few years now)... and they all unanimously agreed the number on actve duty was around 179 - 180,000. At least around 179k.

I mentioned I was 'arguing' with some clueless people on the internet ("4 divisions - 20k each! -so simple!"), and they reminded me to tell you what I already knew... about all the Air Wings (3 active, I was in 2nd MAW, by the way). plus the MEU's, and other smaller (than full division) independent forces out there.

179k - 180 tops... active duty. I guess that figures. Up a few thousand since I got out in early 2001. There's the best numbers you're going to get. Now I don't want to hear anymore about this, okay? Please?

 

[Hygro]

But if we really have that many marines, why are we calling on reservists for Iraq?

 

[Elgalad]

I wouldn't dream of getting into Sec. Rumsfeld's head to answer that question, but I'll give it a shot from what little I know..

No regular military unit can stay in the field indefinitely. There is a standard 'tour of duty' which represents combat effectiveness. This starts to degrade after a number of months, usually 6, though sometimes a year or more. Reserve and Guard units are not normally used for assault purposes, their role in the military is to serve as replacements after the fact. After the initial invasion of Iraq was complete, the active duty Infantry divisions and Marine division that had been sent there were rotated out after a period of time and replaced with other units. For many reasons, it benefits the armed forces to allow All members of its organization time in the field to gain familiarity with actual working conditions in combat and theater operations, such as reconaissance, intelligence, logistics, support, etc. This improves overall readiness as well as giving more individuals the experience they may need in the future if another conflict should arise.

When the Reserves and Guard are sent in, they go in for most of the same reasons as these (familiarity, experience, relief rotation). The media usually portrays it as a hardship and in some cases it is, but all members of these services join with full knowledge that their service may be required in active duty during their tenure. They Are in fact full members of the armed forces, who act as reinforcements and that is what they are being used for. As amusing as the term may be, there truly is No such thing as a "Weekend Warrior".

There is another reason as well that some Guard and Reserve units are being sent now (and were also sent during Desert Storm). Many Reserve units fill specialized task roles in the military that may not be needed in a typical conflict, but may be necessary in this current one. An example is a unit that deals with water purification and transport. These units were more necessary in the desert conditions of Iraq than they may have been in another climate. Other specialized units might include combat engineers, military police, heavy transport batallions, medical equipment specialists, chemical warfare units, etc. With military budget cuts, the Pentagon must prioritize its funding, and often specialized units such as these become Reserve units rather than Active Duty ones.

-Elgalad

 

[PantheraTigris2]

But if we really have that many marines, why are we calling on reservists for Iraq?

So what would President Hygro do? Send the whole FMF (Fleet Marine Force) to Iraq?

Certain Army Reserve & National Guard units which have been mobilized, were to help ease the deployment rotation burden on the Army units which are responsible for that area of the world (Central Command for Middle East). That way, 3d ID personnel, and others wouldn't have to be deployed for 2+ years at a time.

But yes... certain units are attached to certain commands. Various ones on the (south- mostly) east coast of the U.S. are assigned to the Middle East region. You don't go pulling west coast units for example -which are responsible for guarding/watching other areas- away to sit on another unit's command responsibility. So, activate a few reserves of CENTCOM, maybe even a few applicable SE U.S. nat. guard units (from GA, FL, AL, etc. - CENTCOM States), to support the Army units that are constantly rotating in and out of their area of responsibility. And, maybe snag a few small support units/ detachments from other areas of the country (which you could think of as 'swing units' - like 'swing States' )

And because of that, everyone whines and panics!
Oh GOD!! The draft is coming back!!

Btw, there are MEU's (Marine Expeditionary Units) on ships patrolling the seas at all times. If, for example, war was to suddenly breakout in western Africa, we'd have Marines there in no time at all (because they're out there anyway, cruising around on 6-month deployments, at all times)... this is why the USMC is the '911 force'... because we're already patrolling the whole world anyway - so it's no big deal to land forces somewhere (nearby - at all times)...

 

[MarineCorps]

@Hygro: There are 4 USMC divisions(3 active one reserve) genrealy a division is 20,000 men. You do the math.

Somehow my head is not screwed on tight today. As when I did the math on that I got 20,000. Time to pull up the sites. Ok out of the 3 sites I pulled up, only one had the info.
Marines 175,000 ----- 39,600 ----- 214,600 The "---------" are Guard and civvie and do not apply to USMC.

 

[PantheraTigris2]

Somehow my head is not screwed on tight today. As when I did the math on that I got 20,000. Time to pull up the sites. Ok out of the 3 sites I pulled up, only one had the info.
Marines 175,000 ----- 39,600 ----- 214,600 The "---------" are Guard and civvie and do not apply to USMC.

175k, eh? Well, that is close (probably an estimate), but the 179k... is a much more precise and acurate number, from a source that would know! Maybe that site is slightly dated, like I mentioned it was 176 back in 2001, they may have just rounded. But still, obviously you've found some 'proof' that there are more than 80k Marines.

Either way, I consider myself having 'locked you guys on'. As they say in Marines.

A lot of people don't realize how extensive the U.S. Marine Corps really is. That's why when you see the poll that implies it's just 'some little special forces outfit'......

Yep, that's it! We're just a small little group - about 2 hundred strong - and we take beaches, and raise American flags... that's it. That's all we do.

 

[MarineCorps]

Source http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/end-strength.htm

The media has called upon this guy to appear on their shows. So I give it a credible rating. (course this is the same media that has the motto: If It's big, gray, floats, and has a gun it, then it's a battleship )

 

[PantheraTigris2]

Source http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/end-strength.htm

The media has called upon this guy to appear on their shows. So I give it a credible rating. (course this is the same media that has the motto: If It's big, gray, floats, and has a gun it, then it's a battleship )

Yeah, I know the site - it's pretty neat, with lots of interesting data. But, just keep in mind, a website with a 'classmates.com' banner ad at the top, is not the Bible of accurate & current military information.

All you're going to find there - is what the Pentagon 'doesn't deny'.

For example... "yes, there is a USS Reagan. We do not deny this. Yes, it is a Nimitz class (CVN-76) aircraft carrier. We do not deny this. Yes, it's first deployment is scheduled for 2005... we do not deny this. Blah blah.... Now, that is all you are getting from us - go away pesky little globalsecurities.org fact-finding man, and leave us alone."

But, naturally, they're going to try and get as close as they can. By prying as much as possible into DoD affairs! Heck, they probably approach military personnel family members at church! "Hi, how are you? Great Sunday service, ay? I like your outfit! Hey, when do you think the Reagan is really deploying?? Can you nail down a date??? Month maybe?? Just curious, my son is scheduled to be on that ship..." j/k

 

[Mrogreturns]

If the U.S Marine Corps is an independent entity- does that mean that the majority of marines are primariy non-combatants? Are there, for example, USMC accountants?

 

[PantheraTigris2]

If the U.S Marine Corps is an independent entity- does that mean that the majority of marines are primariy non-combatants? Are there, for example, USMC accountants?

All Marines are basic riflemen (-women?). That means, ANY of them could be pulled away from their job, and put in the field as infantry, as the core of their training is to be a rifleman with a high level of marksmanship.

The Marine Corps has no doctors (medical personnel of any kind), dentists, etc... of it's own. Those are all Navy personnel (maybe you've heard of the 'Navy Corpsman'? - That is a Navy guy, that is integrated into the Marine units, and provides the service the 'medic' does for the Army.

For lawyers, more Navy personnel (mostly). On any given Marine Base, or Airfield, you will always find a healthy number of Navy support personnel.

But yes, there are plenty of administration, etc. jobs - that Marines also do. Like me for example. I was an air traffic controller. I worked in a control tower, and a 'radar room' (as you would call it). Most people would never have thought Marines even did that!

...but hey... you've got to have someone manning the ATC equipment in the field, in times of war.