Ottoman

[Funak]

The Ottomans 2.0: The Ottomans strikes back.

Suleiman - Tanzimat
Completing a trade-route grants +X all yields to the origin city scales with era.
All trade-routes have an extra 50% range.
I'm not going to set a value on the yields because I'm honestly not sure what would be a good fit. The free caravansaries was replaces with longer trade-routes, slightly weaker early on but eventually better.


UU - Janissary
Same as the old Janissary


UB - Siege Foundry#1
Replaces Forge
Available at Iron working
1 Maintenance
2 Engineer slot
+2 production (1)
+Volley to Siegeweapons
+50% production when building Siegeweapons.


UB - Siege Foundry#2
Replaces Forge
Available at Bronze working
1 Maintenance
1 Engineer slot
+3 production (1)
+Volley to Siegeweapons
+50% production when building Siegeweapons.


UB - Siege Foundry#3
Replaces Forge
Available at Metal casting
1 Maintenance
1 Engineer slot
+3 production (1)
+Volley to Siegeweapons
+1 production/4 pop

 

[Funak]

Some UA ideas. I'm not sure any of these are actually strong enough to stand on their own, so I'm just going to throw a few of them out there and someone smarter than me can mix and match.

Tribute
Internal trade-routes generates gold every turn, completing an internal trade-route triggers a historic event


Versatility
Villages and towns generates an extra 2 food, acts as a source of freshwater and adds +1 food to all adjacent farms (not stacking). Villages are available from the start of the game. Earn Great Merchants 50% faster.


Gateway
Trade-routes passing over a tile adds +1 Gold +1 Culture to the tile (not stacking, only lasts while the trade-route is there. Think the old arabian UA, kinda)


Love
Completing a trade-route triggers a WLTKD in the origin city. During WLTKD something something dark-side.


Trade
Completing an international trade grants you flat bonus yields in the origin city, scaling with era.


More love
Completing a trade-route grants a population-increase in the origin city.





Now I ran out of steam, if anyone have any other cool suggestions, just throw them here.

 

[phantomaxl1207]

How about:

UB - Siege Foundry#1
Replaces Forge
Available at Iron working
1 Maintenance
2 Engineer slot
+2 production (1)
+Volley to Siegeweapons
+50% production when building Siege weapons.

And for the UA:
Completing a trade-route triggers a WLTKD in the origin city. When Trade Units Move get +1 to many Yields.

I think it would be nice for Civs other than China get some WLTKD.

I don't think it is necesary to boost the UU. Being able to get +50 HP from defeating enemies is really good.

 

[Funak]

How about:

UB - Siege Foundry#1
Replaces Forge
Available at Iron working
1 Maintenance
2 Engineer slot
+2 production (1)
+Volley to Siegeweapons
+50% production when building Siege weapons.

I like the idea of the extra Engineer, I brought it up as well, I think. It might however be a bit powerful for a classical era UB. Hard to say really.

And for the UA:
Completing a trade-route triggers a WLTKD in the origin city. When Trade Units Move get +1 to many Yields.

I think it would be nice for Civs other than China get some WLTKD.

I think another civ having a UA based around WLTKD could be fun, I mean it is a pretty big mechanic, affecting a lot of things in game.
Yields when moving could definitely work but it overlaps a bit with Portugal and Morocco.

I don't think it is necesary to boost the UU. Being able to get +50 HP from defeating enemies is really good.

Agreed, I think it is the worst of the musketman replacements, but it is still decent enough.


Thanks for the response by the way, much appreciated

 

[mavol6]

how about longer wltkd on the ua?, is it possible to reduce the times for trade routes to end?, because that would be a good bonus for ottomans (more tourism and yields).

 

[phantomaxl1207]

how about longer wltkd on the ua?, is it possible to reduce the times for trade routes to end?, because that would be a good bonus for ottomans (more tourism and yields).

So by sending TRs from the same city, you want to be able to keep a WLTKD.

UB - Siege Foundry#1
Replaces Forge
Available at Iron working
1 Maintenance
2 Engineer slot
+2 production (1)
+Volley to Siegeweapons
+50% production when building Siege weapons.

Another thing about the Engineers is that they will seem weaker than Mines, so maybe not. But that assumes you have Hills improved.

 

[hokath]

Just wanted to chip in and agree that the Ottomans are probably the only civ left that doesn't feel like they have a "thing". I don't know a huge amount about Tanzimat, but as I understand it, it was about unifying society and connecting people and places in a broad range of contexts *internally*. Furthermore, the UU and UB scream war. We had a similar situation with Denmark before the Jelling Stone change.

This suggests to me internal trade routes/city connections/puppet cities/WLTKD are all possibilities.

JFD has this UA for his Ottoman split: Internal trade routes yield +33%. Puppet cities connected via internal trade route yields gold and faith in the capital if they follow a different religion.

I think we could go simpler and have: Internal trade routes gain +x yields for every puppet city you control. Internal trade routes start WLTKD in the target (puppeted?) city.

Puppets are a major feature that only Venice really interacts with.

 

[Sendaf]

Playing Ottoman game right now and I have been able to roll through 3 civs at war really easily (difficulty 6) im not sure if ottomans have an iron start bias but in this game i practically started with a strategic monopoly. UU and UB are pretty great. UA has been solid but With such a focus on war im running out of international trade partners. Keep the same UA but swap it to finishing internal trade routes

 

[phantomaxl1207]

Ottoman really suffer w/o Iron; their UB will seem that much more weaker (no Siege). CS do give the UA ability when TR's finish.

 

[Der_Zorn_gottes]

Now that Jannissaries are ranged, the march promotion isn`t very strong any more. It is not bad, but generally ranged units are not often wounded. March is a promotion that is for melee.
I would like to see it replaced by something special for a ranged unit.

 

[Funak]

Now that Jannissaries are ranged, the march promotion isn`t very strong any more. It is not bad, but generally ranged units are not often wounded. March is a promotion that is for melee.
I would like to see it replaced by something special for a ranged unit.

They still have +25% strength when attacking.

I'm going to admit that march isn't anywhere near as good for ranged units as it is for melee units, I mean it takes 1 less promotion to get it as ranged even, but its in no way a weak promotion. I mean I usually go into march on my ranged units anyways mostly because they keep taking chipdamage.
The +25% strength when attacking, march, the fact that they unlock earlier and have more CS and RCS than the unit they replaces is totally fine enough for a UU.

 

[Sun Pope]

Janissaries are fine. The biggest problem I see with Ottomans is their UA being stopped short, which seems to happen every single [censored] time. I usually don't even get to play around woth this UA because of how frustrating it is. (Its worse than being beaten to a wonder with 1 turn left)

A simple way around this is to give partial bonus when their trade routes are pillaged. Makes sense, though probably tough to code.

Another route is to make their caravans impossible to pillage if being sent to a friendly civ or CS. They can still be destroyed if the recipient of the route declares war or if you declare war on them, or if the CS becomes an ally of someone you are at war with. You could make this only affect land routes. This could be a little OP, but you could balance it by making trade routes produce less gold or something. Just a few thoughts.

Siege Workshop is great IMO. Besides Russia, The Ottos are one of my favourite Civs (I love them both historically and in gameplay.) The boost in seige units usually lands me a huge swing midgame where I take out a few enemies' capitals and other large cities. Having Janissaries back up an army of cannons is so satisfying.

Edit: About the UB, it may only seem fine to me because my standard warlike strategy is to play super passive until I get my Uniques that turn me into a war machine, so I usually dont build any seige units until then anyway. Having seige units from previous wars taking up iron could be a bigger problem than I realise. (In which case, an easy solution is to make Seige Foundries produce 1 Iron, though it may be broken that way)

 

[Funak]

Janissaries are fine. The biggest problem I see with Ottomans is their UA being stopped short, which seems to happen every single [censored] time. I usually don't even get to play around woth this UA because of how frustrating it is. (Its worse than being beaten to a wonder with 1 turn left)

A simple way around this is to give partial bonus when their trade routes are pillaged. Makes sense, though probably tough to code.

Another route is to make their caravans impossible to pillage if being sent to a friendly civ or CS. They can still be destroyed if the recipient of the route declares war or if you declare war on them, or if the CS becomes an ally of someone you are at war with. You could make this only affect land routes. This could be a little OP, but you could balance it by making trade routes produce less gold or something. Just a few thoughts.

Siege Workshop is great IMO. Besides Russia, The Ottos are one of my favourite Civs (I love them both historically and in gameplay.) The boost in seige units usually lands me a huge swing midgame where I take out a few enemies' capitals and other large cities. Having Janissaries back up an army of cannons is so satisfying.

Edit: About the UB, it may only seem fine to me because my standard warlike strategy is to play super passive until I get my Uniques that turn me into a war machine, so I usually dont build any seige units until then anyway. Having seige units from previous wars taking up iron could be a bigger problem than I realise. (In which case, an easy solution is to make Seige Foundries produce 1 Iron, though it may be broken that way)

Earlier siege units cost no iron in the latest version.

This have been one of my favorite civs as well, mostly for historical reasons and because I always randomed them when playing civ 4. I really hated the vanilla take on the civ, and the CBP version is a clear improvement upon that. However from my experience both while playing as them and while seeing the AI play them, they always underperform, even during the short period where Caravansaries had a merchant slot on them, they were still doing really badly in all of my games.


Since the Ottomans are pretty much always in the bottom of the list whenever I see the AI play them in my games, but according to Gazebo, they seem to do really well in his games, I now have a question for you, the public: Do the Ottomans AI perform well in the games you play?

 

[Revolutionist_8]

I now have a question for you, the public: Do the Ottomans AI perform well in the games you play?

In my current game they definitely underperform, and that's been my experience for a while now. They don't expand aggressively nor they attack early on or acting hostile, that from a warmonger civ should've been expected. But that could have been altered by many factor, maybe they just got bad starts in my games.

 

[Enrico Swagolo]

Earlier siege units cost no iron in the latest version.

This have been one of my favorite civs as well, mostly for historical reasons and because I always randomed them when playing civ 4. I really hated the vanilla take on the civ, and the CBP version is a clear improvement upon that. However from my experience both while playing as them and while seeing the AI play them, they always underperform, even during the short period where Caravansaries had a merchant slot on them, they were still doing really badly in all of my games.


Since the Ottomans are pretty much always in the bottom of the list whenever I see the AI play them in my games, but according to Gazebo, they seem to do really well in his games, I now have a question for you, the public: Do the Ottomans AI perform well in the games you play?

I will be honest - while Suleiman doesn't appear often (this is reserved for Pocatello who is there almost EVERY GAME, Casimir who appears every second game and Isabella who appears 100% of the time whenever I don't play Spain), Whenever he appears, he's middle of the pack, no more, no less.

He does way better than Askia who usually sucks despite a powerful UA and a UB that often is the best in the game, Isabella who is always the worst - she is wrecked by someone or rendered absolutely irrelevant as she just sits on a few cities denouncing everyone for no reason while spamming me with hate messages every two turns, Napoleon who is the rarest of sights but always sucks, Casimir who for some reason sucks in CBP but always loved to become the final boss of the game in Vanilla, both Marias who are forever bad (especially the Theresa variant though, Maria I is often middle of the pack).

Other bads? Shaka half of the time because the other half he runs away, never being middle, Genghis 50% sucks 50% is middle-high tier.

Those who usually do at least well are Gandhi, Pocatello, Hiawatha, Harun, Boudicca, Theodora, SEJONG (always!), Nebuchadnezzar, Wu Zetian.


I think it's more about AI. Some, due to their preferences, will do way better than others while others will be absolutely irrational in their "thoughts" and the way they act and do things. Granted many are carried by their UA/UB/UU being very strong like Boudicca who has pretty much two UAs, but in some cases even that fails (like Shaka who either sucks or becomes the final boss or at least boss of the continent he is on, never satiated with a middle ground).

 

[Funak]

I think it's more about AI. Some, due to their preferences, will do way better than others while others will be absolutely irrational in their "thoughts" and the way they act and do things. Granted many are carried by their UA/UB/UU being very strong like Boudicca who has pretty much two UAs, but in some cases even that fails (like Shaka who either sucks or becomes the final boss or at least boss of the continent he is on, never satiated with a middle ground).

This is not the time for rebalancing or judgement, that comes later.
I'm genuinely curious, G claims that he is doing fine and I've just never seen him doing fine, so I'm curious if I'm delusional or if G is.

 

[Revolutionist_8]

Isabella who is always the worst - she is wrecked by someone or rendered absolutely irrelevant as she just sits on a few cities denouncing everyone for no reason while spamming me with hate messages every two turns,
Casimir who for some reason sucks in CBP but always loved to become the final boss of the game in Vanilla

These. Are. So. True.

 

[mavol6]

what about giving them shorter trade route duration?, it could trigger the ua more often plus the tourism from the buildings. it could also make getting franchises on the late game faster.

 

[Greggy08]

what about giving them shorter trade route duration?, it could trigger the ua more often plus the tourism from the buildings. it could also make getting franchises on the late game faster.

I really like this suggestion. [emoji106]

 

[pandasnail]

Playing on Marathon speed, Sulie functions in a similar role to the other warring types that have later bonuses: Quite well if he gets to his specials, but since he won't usually join up the peacemonger alliance, its somewhat an issue getting there at full strength. But I did have one game where Sulie used cannons and artillery to conquer an entire eight civ continent, the best AI war result I've ever seen in all my playing. Actually, he eventually had small parts of my continent too even.