Outside the box. Shred the box.

[iggymnrr]

100 BC space win on a huge chieftain. Darius. Yeah Darius. Hagia Sophia in 2430 BC. Huts obscure planning on which tech the Oracle will be used. We used it for music so that the artist could bulb theology. Early civics were caste and OR. No slavery. Culture options put lumber on sale for a frenetic chopping spree. A religion was spread to high food cities for GP production. 7 AI cities participated in specialists. Conquest was done by 2300 BC. We were pushing 60 cities by 1600 BC.

With starting cities having 2 workers each, expansion means new cities can be founded with a worker. General build order was worker chop worker chop courthouse and then some food and cottage. Construction came from huts and the sports league fired. So some cities were founded and went worker chop worker chop coliseum.

No wonder fail gold as that would slow expansion. Wonder failing really hurts with no trade possibilities. Darius doesn't need it. By 1600 he had generated enough cash to self tech feudalism. And that while amassing 60 cities! We finished the wonders we wanted ASAP. A 1580 sports golden age fired and the Hanging Gardens fetched mercantilism within 10 turns. However, at factory time the Notre Dame produced fail gold to keep the slider at 100%. The factory bonus was a decent substitute for tech trading.

To get to the other side of a mountain, consider building a fort:

 

[iggymnrr]

Working on a small highlands at warlord level. Game plan is something like 12 cities by turn 75 followed by a REX. Trial game did that and the REX got to 39 cities by turn 112ish. 75BC. Darius' immortals are effective at keeping pony losses down. There's enough puddles that the Colossus is good. Cylinder or flat? Good question.

 

[iggymnrr]

Had the marathon event golden age come up for the first time. I think a border pop in between turns did it. A warrior got encircled by it and promptly pillaged a tile before the in-between-turn segment ended. My previous game (warlord) was a 5 golden age game (no academy) and I was wondering if 6 was possible. Seems like 7 is now a consideration as the map seed also has the sports league event. It's not clear if 6 are fully useable. Probably a short 8-turn golden age can produce a merchant GP for a guilds bulb. So the marathon event can be triggered by declaring a phony war when an AI warrior is around? Just wait for it to pillage something?

 

[iggymnrr]

Working some more on solving the warlord small standard map. I want to do better than my 1260 AD time, like 1200 AD or better. Tech costs are comparable to large/huge chieftain maps. Asoka has done those maps by 1050 AD and 1100 AD. And with only 28ish cities and state property. But those games were with an inland sea where every worked tile is probably riverside. The small map is trickery needing a highlands map for its size. I'm also aiming for a corporate game with 40ish cities. It might take two phases of expansion.

28ish cities by 500 BC played much like the Asoka games followed by a slower expansion to 40 cities. The delay can cater to 4 cities building 4 settlers, 4 cities building universities, and 4 cities building banks. The capitol is not included here for abstraction. 5 building are needed for Oxford and Wall Street. That is 3 smaller cycles of 4-city expansion.

I have a test game where Darius teched the religions ASAP and got an early CoL and Hagia Sophia. There was also a shrine and academy in this game. At 250 AD its a dead heat with the 1260 AD game. Maybe its slightly better as there was 5 turns of non-golden age civic switching. Hut luck was slightly worse too. Colossus doesn't seem necessary with the financial trait. But an early Moai city could work well in concert with an early cottage city. Fewer worker turns to worry about. Maybe a start with a 3rd or 4th settler from huts might do it. Hagia seems useful in keeping engineer points rolling in without worrying about the Hanging Gardens. Its never too early for the Hagia.

 

[iggymnrr]

Had a test game where Guilds was Oracled in 250 BC. A merchant would have been useful as would a golden age. But Gandhi had built Stonehenge and it took too long to get there. The new wrinkle is 5 golden ages using a city with Stonehenge/Temple of Artemis/Oracle as an early golden age generator. Caste looks better than slavery since that obviates a market. Also slavery leads to early ADs with a lower tech rate and significantly fewer tiles worked. It just isn't possible to catch up with the more caste oriented approach.

 

[iggymnrr]

Had a decent trial using hereditary rule instead of representation on the warlord small map. Happiness seemed to be the biggest problem. Well, maybe expansion speed is the biggest. That may mean another leader. Also, the new fangled GP generator worked like a charm. A city with Stonehenge/Oracle/Temple of Artemis produced 4 GPs, one for each non-Taj golden age. A 5-golden age approach is very viable for standard speed. Less slavery was used too which made education a 1-turn tech (no bulb) and electricity a 2-bulb tech. It must be practical to send 2 workers to a new city to chop out a CH and granary. The latent worker is a bonus. Why whip when 12ish turns can produce 2 buildings and a worker at pop one?

 

[iggymnrr]

I perfected the 5 golden age technique in my latest game, an 1190 AD space win on the warlord small map. See attached 1 AD screenshot. The first 5 GPs produced were 4 from Pasargadae and 1 from Washington: prophet/prophet/merchant/engineer/prophet. There is no real need to produce any other GP type other than scientists unless one wishes a food corporation instead of Standard Ethanol. Except for one caveat -- an artist. There is also no need to use the National Epic with pacifism available. Something like 9 cities producing GPs is possible. 2nd caveat -- the city with Stonehenge/Oracle/ToA might produce 2 merchants as its 3rd and 4th GPs. In that case something like Taj/Notre Dame/ National Epic is probably needed. Start the golden age run with the first prophet/merchant. The technique plays itself. Just use a prophet/merchant in each golden age.

In the game played the engineer came via pyramids/forge/Hagia Sophia. The capitol handled the Hanging Gardens. I did not build the Great Wall but rather captured it. All wonders except for the Colossus were geared for GP production or corporate usage. The Colossus was due to the exorbitant number of ponds available on the map.

 

[iggymnrr]

I am currently at a crossroads in a large settler game. RP at 1250 BC. Mining Inc. is possible before 1000 BC. But 55-city settlement was planned for state property possibly before iron working. There is a decided push for the SoL as that would briefly put a GL everywhere until state property. GP production is in high gear but cities haven't really grown enough to max out yet. (Nonetheless, 5 GPs generated by 1250 BC as Darius.) Hence an engineer for the SoL. Mining Inc. looks like a poor corp. But who says we can't do a state property to Standard Ethanol game?

The game plan implemented the 5-GA approach and this game is a very good trial. VERY good. Somewhere in the beginning the marathon GA fired for the AI. As I have plenty of maps that random event should be lurking. e.g. Use a spare settler from huts to trip the marathon GA for a free 16-turn GA. So it seems 6 golden ages are possible. And the status of the coliseum event is still unknown. So 7 golden ages? It would be quite the thing to throw out this game which may be good for a 150 BC space win because a better result may be out there. Argh.

 

[iggymnrr]

Getting around to finishing the settler trial game. Tech speed looks like the record of 60 BC should be beatable, possibly on tie breaks. Production speed is less clear. Maybe a turn or two slower. State property -> Standard Ethanol. Engineer from fusion can yet be used for Mining Inc. It's not clear if that will help much.

I am mapping out 5-golden age strategies for a large map and changes that can be made for a huge map. On huge maps the artist from music can be assumed to be equivalent to getting theology from a hut while the merchant from economics most probably gets used for a golden age. On large maps this usage likely gets reversed. Early Mining Inc. looks feasible on the large maps but on huge it is much less clear. However, Mining Inc.'s founding city can be planned out in advance for options later. Mining Inc. is much less potent on huge maps and isn't really needed for tech speed or production. What is useful is 3 Gorges as that allows for organized leaders to go from building factories straight to building observatories. The building speed for coal plants is too slow on marathon compared to standard speed. Or rather tech speed is too fast.

 

[iggymnrr]

Finished the trial game. 30 BC on large settler. Equaling the record of 60 BC was possible but for a miscounted engine production by 3 turns. Higher score was a done deal too. I will play 2 more games on the bigger maps. Summary of Oracle usage lately: Huge chieftain Oracle -> music; Large settler Oracle -> theology. Huge settler is uncertain as music and currency can both come from huts so music is just theology via bulb. Parthenon and Paya can be used to speed up a machinery bulb. As monarchy is a hut tech feudalism may be possible before cash runs out. Oracle -> guilds? Can a second GP, a merchant, be gotten for a banking bulb? If so that line is huge for Darius. But the prophet points from the Oracle earlier may be better.

It would seem likely that thruster fail gold is possible for spreading Mining Inc. using the fusion engineer. Seems like an obvious idea for a late Mining Inc. But using the fusion engineer for an Ironworks build is easier.

 

[iggymnrr]

140 BC space win on a large settler map with Darius. In 530 BC the Hoover Dam provided power to the empire. A mere 9 turns later the spaceship blasted off. There was a certain contempt for power in the ending. Its not clear how much value coal plants have with Standard Ethanol. When Mining Inc. provides 40 hammers a coal plant increases output by 20 hammers. Meanwhile, Ethanol starts with 60 beakers and is dirt cheap. Still, about 10 coal plants got built to speedup the ending. 67 cities by 1400ish BC and 300+ workers by 1000 BC. 15 GPs produced by 550 BC with 2 bulbs into radio and a bulb each into computers and fiber optics.

But the map was utter garbage. Who plays these kinds of starts? (Ending tech rate of nearly 26k was nice though.)

 

[iggymnrr]

Still trying to digest the finish from the last game. Power via the 3 Gorges didn't arrive until half way between plastics and launch. And it appears that it would not be sufficient to produce a 1 turn per tech pace. Bulbs are needed. But both rocketry and superconductors needed 2 turns and nothing else did. This was not bad. But medicine only took 1 turn and at biology it is possible to put a bulb into medicine so that later at computers a person can finish teching medicine effectively transferring the bulb to superconductors. It's the TIME spent bulbing that enables Ethanol to surpass power/coal plants.

Two execs are cheaper than a coal plant and the first exec can replicate at the same time as the second one. That is a coal plant augments Mining Inc hammers by twenty while execs produces 180 beakers. That's a 9:1 ratio. Of course finishing the 3 Gorges sooner than 7 or 8 turns after plastics won't hurt either. But I think I've convinced myself that since bulbs are needed in the ending a person can be very nonchalant towards power/coal plants.

 

[iggymnrr]

Well I just had my fastest spaceship launch ever: 500 BC. I am not quite satisfied and may choose to play another map from the set. Here are a couple of screenshots. The 1st one is the capitol made it to 2 towns. It was the 2nd city and its 1st tiles worked were 2 cottage tiles. It was a slow grower due to a border pop which came via a religion. The 2nd screenshot is Wall Street. The corps are stellar and so is the shrine.

We produced 16 GPs by 590 BC. The GP production machine was like a train. It ran at a constant speed. The last boxcar could't really be sped up while the caboose was the National Park. Growing cities up to GP production levels was paramaount and a bit tricky. Libraries confer a 25% bonus. This game produced 25% more cities: 81 when the Hanging Gardens finished in 1480 BC. (87 total) Darius the Imperial. Darius the Philosophical. Darius the Master of Six Golden Ages. Darius the Overseer of 374 workers ...

It may take a day or so to play out the last 30 moves for the 200 BC win and then to submit the game. Time to rest now.

 

[iggymnrr]

200 BC huge settler game was accepted. Some notes:
1) Slavery used to 1 pop whip-chop some granaries. Meh. Cities grow to pop 2 twice instead of pop 2 or 3 once. (May not be repeated.)
2) Mining Inc. at 1010 BC. Whoo!
3) Every city had a great market/library/museum/etc. (Mercantilism + SoL) Idea: Use the music wonder to obviate artists except for the GP artists needed. That wonder can also help with the GP train. (Border pops increase forest yield.)
4) Idea: Rush buy labs and librairies to increase hammer overflow for spaceship parts. Also, Standard Ethanol gets more multipliers. (3 Gorges Dam rush buy as per normal.)
5) Settle capitol around turns 8-12 to increase units ASAP. Then pop lots of huts for tech before warriors spawn from huts at turn 20.
6) Optimal size may be less than the 87 used this game. BUT the corps on this map size seem to argue for lots and lots of cities. Can a 100-city/400-worker game be done? Hm ...
7) How much further back can the finish date be pushed?

 

[iggymnrr]

In principle I will try another settler huge before a warlords huge map. Right now I'm problem solving things related to the GP train moving faster/sooner. Solve-able: having each boxcar at the same pop level once it starts moving. Perhaps unsolve-able: providing the same number of lux to each boxcar. Additionally, the boxcars forming the engine get recycled to be used later as 600 GP boxcars. They rely more on passive GP production due to downtime with settler and worker building. That is another way of saying the first GPs are really cheap. But the huge map is really big which implies some resource hookup problems. It may be desirable to incur some unnecessary GP risk early. For instance, one city can do forge + national epic while another can pair the ToA with merchants under caste. The idea is to play for an engineer and merchant quickly to get to mercantilism faster. The epic city can add pyramids/Hagia Sophia at leisure.

There may be a certain 4/3/2 geometry. Three cities may be able to produce 9 GPs: 6 early and 3 late. Timetable probably allows a 3/3/2 or 3/2/2 without using the national epic.

 

[iggymnrr]

Had a couple of starts that were pretty good on the settler huge. Coastal starts seem to give the AI more food which is extremely useful. Although my last start was brownish near tundra and was a heart stopper on near zero commerce in the capitol. It was tough to let that one go. I'm still working out the bugs in mapping out a 100-city game. I'm assembling a pile of 3x5 cards detailing plans for each type of city. Good thing Darius is organized.

 

[iggymnrr]

Got Windows 11 running with Buffy. No glitches except maybe forgetting to set the save on exit option. I also got a new game going and hope that I caught this setting before exiting accidentally without saving. It's a very good game that's smashing all previous benchmarks for settler space games. For instance, the Paya was rejected in favor of a simple market so that 2 merchants could keep up with the engineer points being produced. The effect was same-turning pacifism and mercantilism. The merchant was literally produced simultaneously with the philosophy tech. The game still has a long way to go...

 

[iggymnrr]

Finishing up a game that really takes the cake. Should be able to submit tomorrow or Saturday at the latest. Hopefully nothing got messed up due to switching computers and going Win 11. I found new ways to over the top ...

 

[iggymnrr]

Game accepted. 350 BC space win on a huge settler map. The previous and recently established record of 200 BC was completely massacred. Writeup via link: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/450-workers-650-bc-spaceship-launch-100-cities.680157/

 

[iggymnrr]

Beginning to look closely at attempting a BC win on a huge warlord map. State property may be doable and perhaps more desirable than corporations. A corporate 100-city REX drives a person batty like that bird inside a ****oo clock mixing metaphors and repeatedly rising in the middle of the night to settle more and more cities. State property is much more sane.