Over Ocean Trade?

[LincolnOfRome]

I am playing Portugal. I had an isolated start on a couple of islands in the middle of the ocean. I have Bananas and Dye on my islands. I would like to trade them with other nation for something that might increase my populations health and happiness. I have visited the other civilizations with my units. I have traded technologies with them. I am unable to trade goods with them. Also, none of my cities have foreign trade routes. What makes trade with other nations possible? I have the GLH, but my cities aren't generating much trade. Do I just need to run mercantilism?

It might be the same cause, but I've set up a colony on a small islands, far from any other land. It is not producing any trade at all.

 

[bakshi]

Post a save of the game or a screenshot.

 

[LincolnOfRome]

For some reason, switching to mercantilism didn't give me any more . I am using the buffy mod, so a save may not help. I think I may have the answer. I don't have astronomy yet (even though the carracks do a great job at setting up colonies). Can anyone confirm that I can't trade with my overseas colonies until astronomy?

 

[Sporknife]

You couldve just read the descriptions for the techs. it's pretty clear that astronomy allows trade over seas.

also, for the love of god dont go into mercantilism with the great lighthouse.

 

[smackthewise]

You must have astronomy to receive any international trade routes. If there are many other Civs out there mercantilism is not advised. Income from international trade routes vs the benefits of 1 Specialist in each city doesn't come close. This is especially true for Free Market and Portugal's UB which provides an additional trade route.

 

[LincolnOfRome]

Yep, I did start to get trade to my overseas colony when I learned astronomy. I still wonder why mercantilsm didn't give me more trade than decentralization. I switched to mercantilism because on my map, no astronomy meant no foreign trade routes.

 

[LincolnOfRome]

also, for the love of god dont go into mercantilism with the great lighthouse.

Why? I couldn't have any foreign trade routes before astronomy. My UU allowed me to start overseas colonies that didn't have any trade at all, though!

You must have astronomy to receive any international trade routes. If there are many other Civs out there mercantilism is not advised. Income from international trade routes vs the benefits of 1 Specialist in each city doesn't come close. This is especially true for Free Market and Portugal's UB which provides an additional trade route.

There were 10 other Civs out there, but it didn't make a bit of difference. My economy was isolated by the ocean, as I didn't have astronomy yet. Optics gave me the Carrack, so I could set up overseas colonies. Then I started aiming for Liberalism. Meanwhile I wondered why my overseas colonies had no trade routes at all! I took astronomy as my free tech when I won Liberalism. I had acquired banking in a tech trade. Mercantilism was the best Civ choice until I got Astronomy. When I got Astronomy, I used a great merchant, bulbed Econ, and switched to Free Market.

I just think the Mechanics of having the Portugese UU confused me.

 

[smackthewise]

You have really got to read the Civlopedia. Mercantilism = No foreign trade routes!!!! Instead you get one specialist per city.

Astronomy allows International Trade Routes, so trade over ocean tiles.

Under Mercantilism you can only trade with your own Cities.

 

[smackthewise]

My UU allowed me to start overseas colonies that didn't have any trade at all, though!

This is why you must be very careful using Portugal's UU. Although you get a head start on settling overseas, its an expensive head-start!

 

[LincolnOfRome]

You have really got to read the Civlopedia. Mercantilism = No foreign trade routes!!!!

What made you think I wasn't aware of that? I switched to Mercantilism from Decentralization because the ocean isolated me from all foreign trade. What am I missing? Is Decentralization better than Mercantilism for a pre-astronomy ocean separated civ? Don't you agree that Mercantilism is the best civic before Astronomy allows your Civ to have foreign trade routes?

 

[Tristan_C]

Yeah, mercantilism is great for pre-astro. I presume this issue is solved now that you have astro and are not running mercantilism?

 

[mariogreymist]

What made you think I wasn't aware of that? I switched to Mercantilism from Decentralization because the ocean isolated me from all foreign trade. What am I missing? Is Decentralization better than Mercantilism for a pre-astronomy ocean separated civ? Don't you agree that Mercantilism is the best civic before Astronomy allows your Civ to have foreign trade routes?

If you have the glh, and coastal island cities, you definitely should keep decentralization over mercantilism. With the glh, settle every tiny island off the coast (or at least 4 of them). If you have one single landmass, then you are better off with mercantilism.

But of course, if you have the glh and are isolated, you better have astro before you have banking anyway.

 

[LincolnOfRome]

Yeah, mercantilism is great for pre-astro.

I thought it made sense.

I presume this issue is solved now that you have astro and are not running mercantilism?

The only issue was getting flamed for running mercantilism pre-astro.

But of course, if you have the glh and are isolated, you better have astro before you have banking anyway.

I got optics, chased after liberalism, and got banking in a tech trade. I was the first to get astro (free tech for liberalism).

 

[mariogreymist]

I've found if you go optics->Astro->lib you will get liberalism sooner, unless you have GS's coming quickly to bulb paper/ed. The research boost from Astro is huge, if you have properly maximized coastal city sites, and have managed to open borders with enough AIs to have all your trade be foreign. I've seen as much as a 40% increase in total gnp in one turn on discovery of astro with the glh...it's that big.

 

[smackthewise]

40% increase in total gnp in one turn on discovery of astro with the glh...it's that big.

+1 And Observatories are sweeet too.

 

[LincolnOfRome]

I didn't notice much of an increase. The Colossus boost expired as the Astro boost kicked in.

 

[mariogreymist]

I didn't notice much of an increase. The Colossus boost expired as the Astro boost kicked in.

That's why I rarely combine the two. MC is too close to Astro when you are committed to a solid glh strategy. Only if I bulb MC early AND have Copper AND will be forced to work lots of water AND have a coastal city with nothing more pressing to build do I bother with the Colossus when isolated with the glh. (in the long run gl cottages>colossus coast anyway)

You can actually finish a conquest/domination win with the glh still active and affecting the outcome...rifles/arty/MGs/Bombers/SAM infantry are all available without corporations. Combine that with the Kremlin and US, and watch the sparks fly.

 

[LincolnOfRome]

It was an isolated start on immortal. I'll take all the boosts I can get. I hate those games where I am all isolated and the first AI I meet is Shaka blowing my galleys away with destroyers. This is the first time I have met other AI civs at any level above prince actually ahead in the tech race. I kept my lead and was able to start Sushi and Mining in my capital.

I am learning, but not quite of an expert on game mechanics as so many of you are on the forums. I am learning from you all. I just learned during this game that it is astronomy that opens up foreign trade routes. Somehow I got lucky at this level and wound up OK. I don't know what a solid GLH strategy is, but I guess I'll be learning.

 

[mariogreymist]

The glh is a powerful wonder...you can leverage it like I suggested or just let it carry you to a nice mid-game lead that you can build on for a big end game economy. I've successfully done both, and don't think either is necessarily wrong. If the land is pretty weak, then the colossus/glh combo is good. If the land is strong (green) then glh + cottages + Astro beeline makes more sense. It's all a matter of how much you get and how much you sacrifice in working those coastal tiles. If you're going to work them either way, then colossus->lib/astro is almost certainly superior, and I have done that myself on several occasions, almost always ending up with a massive tech lead (but have yet to have occasion for it over monarch). But if the land is green, you will reach your end-game techs (radio/combustion/rocketry) sooner by working cottages and beelining astro...as that will result in liberalism hitting at about the same time (or earlier) but with a nice boost from FS you miss when you are working coast rather than cottages for early .