P666-04 : Yet Another Trash Game

[futurehermit]

Well, I vote for friends with Asoka. Why? He's on the other side of Qin so attacking him next doesn't make too much sense imo.

Also, we've already declared war on one buddhist and Qin (another buddhist) is nearby.

Kublai (another buddhist) is also close enough to our empire.

Genghis while buddhist isn't too enamored with his buddhist buddies and we can trade with him.

Asoka, the only non-buddhist, is far enough from our empire that attacking him doesn't seem to be an early priority and is peaceful and techs good enough that we can have at least one solid trading partner and one so-so tradiing partner and attack dog (Genghis).

My 2 cents.

 

[cabert]

I don't think we should determine the next target on the proximity only.
Asoka is a greater threat than genghis khan. If we let him tech his way to a large, big and strong empire, he'll be hard to kill.
Same for kublai.
Genghis WILL go to war at some point. Better to not be the target.

That's the good part of the trash game, we don't really need to agree
I think attacking asoka will give better land, better economy better diplomacy than attacking protective qin.

 

[Cabledawg]

Spoiler :

1010AD....Start Great Library in Seoul and whip library in newly captured Osaka. I whip a library in Kyoto next turn.

1040..... Satsuma falls with 0 losses. Japan is done.
Kublai asked us to convert to Buddhism, I agree as all the new cities have it and can expand borders quicker. It will improve relations with everyone as well.
Beuracracy comes in and I choose Paper. Now that Beuracracy is in, I can start the irrigation project in Tokyo to irrigate the wheat. Ill only have to farm 1 tile.

1060.....Start a chop on Seoul towards Great Library

1080.....Kublai is now pleased. I close borders with Asoka. Hes at war with Kublai and I dont need to make him mad. My next target is Qin, and I thought about attacking Asoka until I see Qin has a few units around my borders in small stacks.

I decide to make a few trades for some money which we need badly. I trade Kublai sugar for 6GPT and Dye for our fish. I trade Qin sugar for 6GPT. I make a note to renegotiate these when they have more money.

1090.....Great Library finishes, start Colossus..due in 5. How can you not build these wonders if they are so cheap. I start forges in a few cities.

1110.....Wheat gets irrigated

1120.....Paper comes in, choose Eduacation. I would rather have Engineering, but a few others have it allready and Ill just trade for it later. I hate researching things the AI allready have. It seems to put me behind. Besides, I can prolly get Liberalism in my turnset and take Nationalism. After building the Taj, I can easily backfill.

The Parthenon hasnt been built yet, so I cue it up in Pyongyang, due in 6. Better here that in Seoul. Dont want to pollute that pool with Doody.

1140.....Colossus done

1150.....Pop a Great Engineer and immediatly use him for University of Sankore in Seoul.
Qin has 2 stacks coming my way. I turn down research to upgrade some axes.

1170.....I need some money. I trade CS and Theology to Kublai for Feudalism and 380G

1190.....Parthenon is done. Start Heroic Epic in Pyongyang

1200.....Qin has brought 2 stacks to Osaka, but hasnt declared yet. Im building units and moving them up there as fast as possible. Im also chopping forest outside some cities BFC to gain some production. Whipping was also included.

1210.....He still hasnt declared and now hes moved the stack onto the 75% defensive jungle hill....joy! Smart lil turd isnt he.

1220.....Still no attack and hes brought even more units

1240.....14 units in that SOD now. Every time I add a unit in Osaka, he adds 1.

1280.....I get a Great Scientist in Seoul. Im 4 turns from Education, so i build an academy in Seoul. Well get another great person soon anyway.

1300.....I start Natl Epic in Seoul, the artist points wont matter at this point. Due in 6

1310.....Education comes in and I cant get Philosophy from Genghis, so i pick it, due in 6

1320.....Qin has 16 units now in that SOD. What is he doing?

My Stack

1340.....Qin is now pleased and wants to open borders...HUH? I agree as I want to improve my economy and scout out his lands and beyond. I send 2 chariots and an archer to go scouting.

1360.....Philosophy comes in and I choose Liberalism. Noone has paper so its in the bag.
I see that Genghis has Nationalism so I think getting Astronomy from Lib is better for trades and we can build Observatories....which I like. We need Compass and Optics to do he Liberalism/Astro sling. Its time to make some trades as paper is losing its value.

I trade Kublai Philo and paper for Engineering and Compass. Paper to Qin for 330G. Paper to Mao for 350G. Paper to Genghis for 370G. I run 100% research and Lib due in 5.

Natl Epic done in Seoul. Its putting out 57GP points. Next great Person due in 2 turns. I start a Harbor.

1380.....Great Scientist born. Ill save him for the next round. Maybe bulb partial Printing Press.

1390.....I renegotiate our trades. Kublai to 9GPT and Qin to 8GPT. I trade Philosophy and 240G to Qin for Optics and Drama. What great timimg for that trade, I thought I would have to research optics manually.

1400.....Lib due in 1 turn.

If my save gets picked, we can discuss what to take with Lib and how to use the Great Scientist. Ive increased our science substantially. Heres a few more pics.

The Save
http://www.deadzoom.com/member/yoohoo3131/P666-04ADCabledawg-1400.CivWarlordsSave

 

[cabert]

I played my round and will post the save later today.

What happened:

Spoiler :

- finished off toku (not much to do)
- traded MC + theology with asoka for feudalism
- sold theology around
- attacked Asoka
- switched to bureaucracy and theocracy
- switched to buddhism ( spread buddhism from our second city, can't remember names sorry)
- took all his visible cities (kept one, one too many already)
- build units, markets (a few), forges (quite a few), barracks, theatres (6!), HE in Seoul, Hagia Sophia in Seoul (GE powered), started globe theater in tokyo (or was it kyoto? ), some seowons. Still in doubt where to put oxford.
- attacked Qin, peace with Asoka
- took a few cities, sieging shangai. I have enough units to take it soon.
- researched guilds, engineering, banking, paper, education
- switched to mercantilism
- traded something (paper?) for drama with kublai
- trade edu for philo and music with ? (kublai probably, or genghis kahn?)

Strategy/afterthoughts :
- I shouldn't have attacked Asoka, since Qin didn't give me open borders. I had no way to kill him! Now, I took enough chinese cities to have access to india again, but it was . The peace deal still gives me enough to research fast.
- Diplomacy is a mess, but qin is almost dead (still a few cities, but the main one is going to fall). I'd finish Asoka after him.
- we have good land and can research further. I believe we have enough commercial power to deficit research to liberalism first. I would take either nationalism or printed press as freeby. Printed press is better because it gives an immediate economical boost.

 

[futurehermit]

I don't think we should determine the next target on the proximity only.
Asoka is a greater threat than genghis khan. If we let him tech his way to a large, big and strong empire, he'll be hard to kill.
Same for kublai.
Genghis WILL go to war at some point. Better to not be the target.

That's the good part of the trash game, we don't really need to agree
I think attacking asoka will give better land, better economy better diplomacy than attacking protective qin.

I guess this is only prince level, but it is important as people move to higher levels to consider proximity. Otherwise maintenance costs will cripple you. When I last looked at the game Asoka was pretty squashed by surrounding nations so I don't think we have to worry about him getting too large. The aggressive civs will falter late game and be easy to take out.

edit: ps., I will try and play my game tonight (Fri, EST)

 

[Öjevind Lång]

I guess this is only prince level, but it is important as people move to higher levels to consider proximity. Otherwise maintenance costs will cripple you. When I last looked at the game Asoka was pretty squashed by surrounding nations so I don't think we have to worry about him getting too large. The aggressive civs will falter late game and be easy to take out.

That is my 'umble opinion too. Quin would be the obvious target for me. (Well, he was, in that game I played outside the competition.)

 

[cabert]

^^what's the point?
we don't keep cities, we kill neighbours!

 

[futurehermit]

^^what's the point?
we don't keep cities, we kill neighbours!

Yes, but early in the game we need to keep cities so we can have a decent enough empire size. My original vision for this game was to take out Qin, keeping all his land, then take out Toku keeping about 1/2 his land. Then wipe out the rest, razing and vassalizing.

(It's in my sig )

 

[cabert]

Yes, but early in the game we need to keep cities so we can have a decent enough empire size. My original vision for this game was to take out Qin, keeping all his land, then take out Toku keeping about 1/2 his land. Then wipe out the rest, razing and vassalizing.

(It's in my sig )

we have enough land already
we can just keep the wonder + holy cities

 

[pigswill]

Original Plan
Having said that there's a diplomatic and financial situation to be improved. I agree with cabert that Asoka is the next target from a foreign relations viewpoint. It could be worth looking at joining in a dogpile against him to get the 'mutual military' bonuss to counter the 'declare war on my friend' when we pick on Qin next.

What Happened

Spoiler :

1000ad. Revolt to Buddhism.
1020. Capture Satsuma, kept. End of Japan. Trade machinery to KK for feudalism. Revolt to vassalage and paganism.
1040. GK declares on Asoka.
1050. Discover CS, start engineering.
1070. KK declares on Asoka. Asoka gets peace with Qin.
1090. Revolt to bureaucracy.
1130. KK asks us to declare on Asoka, agree.
1170. Discover engineering, start paper.
1210. Discover paper, start education. Found Pusan ( fur city in south east tundra).
1260. Capture Madras, keep.
1280. Revolt to NSR. GK completes circumnavigation.
1300. Capture Jaipur, autorazed. Asoka capitulates to us . Tell Asoka to research philosophy. Qin completes Great Library .
1350. Declare on Qin.
1360. Great General, instructor in Tokyo (which had already built HE).
1370. Discover education, start gunpowder.
1380. Capture Shandong. KK declares on Asoka (and us! ). Qin vassalises to KK . Battle of Osaka.
1390. Prophet in Pyongyang, heading to Kyoto to found buddhist shrine. Battle of Osaka continues.
1400. Defeat. Osaka captured .

Casualties for this set: 7 hwacha, 3 trebs, 1 mace, 1 axe, 2 pikes, 1 crossbow, 2ha. 17 units.
Kills for this set: 4 elephants, 3 cats, 2 mace, 2 axe, 1 sword, 1 spear, 1 pike, 6 longbows, 1 ckn, 1 HA. 22 units.

Cities: 1 built, 2 captured, 1 autorazed, 1 lost.

Asoka and us vs Qin and KK. Tricky.

Economic growth?

Improved diplomacy?

Save: http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/90414/P666-04_AD-1400.CivWarlordsSave

 

[Cam_H]

Spoiler :

I did quite well in the Wonder department (The Great Library, The Great Lighthouse, The Colossus, The Parthenon, Uni' Sankore) ... otherwise ...

Osaka flipped and I'm only making so-so progress vs. Qin. War-wise pretty ordinary.

Liberalism next turn.

A great deal with Asoka if willing to trade all techs, which will open a host of new options for Liberalism. I probably should have made the deal to make my game look a bit stronger.

So waiting for

• Futurehermit?
• Endi?

Apologies if I'm blind and missed the submissions!

Half a day or so, and we'll get on with it.

 

[futurehermit]

Hey guys, I wasn't able to play last night and I have to work today, so I will have to take a pass Apologies! I will start playing my rounds on Mondays from now on (my day off) as long as all the voting and stuff is done by then.
thx

 

[Endzz]

I've been away from home a while, will be arriving back sunday night.
I should be able to play if it isn't too late!
(GMT+2 time.. so going to play in about 20 hours from here)

Thanks to all comments I have now good idea what to do so shouldn't take too long to think about things

 

[Cam_H]

The 'Get your games in by Saturday morning and we'll get the voting done by Sunday night' worked well in P666-01 and P666-02 and I'm not sure why we are getting so many late entries and late voters in this game.

We'll wait for Endzz's submission however in future rounds the deadline is the deadline.

For everyone else, please download all of the games and start considering your voting (Öjevind Lång's game can not be considered for voting). When Endzz submits, please download and consider against the others.

[Edit] You an only vote if you participated in the round by submitting a game. The Returning Officer only gets a casting vote if required and can not participate in the voting otherwise. [/Edit]

When you're done, please PM your votes to Öjevind Lång as promptly as possible.

We are looking for the least successful game.

• 3 votes for least successful
• 2 votes for second least successful
• 1 vote for third least successful.

You can not vote for your own game, and you can not vote for Öjevind Lång's submission - immunity this round. In case of a tie, Öjevind will have the casting vote. In case someone fails to vote in a reasonably prompt manner, the non-voter will have his six votes divided equally across all of the other submissions.

We will be taking the least successful game on to 1650AD where we will be looking for the most successful submission. Fbelintani will have immunity for that round and will do the vote counting. I think that I might be getting immunity the week after that!

 

[cabert]

time for voting will be scarce!

My opinion on the criteria for vote this round:

Spoiler :

- are we getting closer to conquest? = rivals left going down?
- are we well armed? = army ready to go?
- are we keeping our rivals busy? = how many of our neighbours are currently at war?
- are we able to sustain the effort ? = economic affairs (tech, money pouring in...)

 

[futurehermit]

agree on criteria.

 

[cabert]

agree on criteria.

futurehermit, you have no time to read and post! play your round and post it!

 

[Endzz]

I'm deeply sorry but i have to skip it afterall

 

[Cam_H]

futurehermit, you have no time to read and post! play your round and post it!

I think we'll leave it there ... far too much waiting already.

OK - votes to Öjevind then. If you're able to do so promptly, that would be great. Hopefully all the votes are in within 24 hours.

 

[futurehermit]

futurehermit, you have no time to read and post! play your round and post it!

I assumed that since the deadline was passed that it was too late. Plus posting a one line statement is much faster than playing a whole round