Patch 3.13 - Still Worth the Wait?

[azzaman333]

Wouldn't it have been nice to also post that here!

 

[ori]

Wouldn't it have been nice to also post that here!

while I agree - he did not need to because this was posted in his thread the same day:

Cross posting and Cross-Poly-nating.

This showed up today...Courtesy of Alexman....

http://www.apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=5053707#post5053707

"The save format will be different, but it will be backwards compatible. That means you will be able to load v302 saves from v313, but you will not be able to load v313 saves from v302.

It should be out early next week. We had to go back and fix a couple of new bugs we introduced."

Just FYI.

And you did miss that

 

[azzaman333]

I remember reading that post, but I must've only read the first part.

My mistake, I'll shut up now.

 

[Bhruic]

Firaxis is owned by Take2. They are one company. This is a distinction without a difference.

No, it's not. Owned or not, Firaxis is still a separate dev studio. Take Two is still a separate publisher. Therefore the process I described is still accurate.

Bh

 

[Wodan]

Wouldn't it have been nice to also post that here!

I wonder if there's any correlation between the vociferousness here and the fact that it was posted on Apolyton and not here?

Wodan

 

[azzaman333]

I wonder if there's any correlation between the vociferousness here and the fact that it was posted on Apolyton and not here?

Wodan

Not posting it here meants more people here made more annoyed posts.

 

[JFLNYC]

No, it's not. Owned or not, Firaxis is still a separate dev studio. Take Two is still a separate publisher. Therefore the process I described is still accurate.

Bh

"Separate" in what sense? Legally they're not separate. Financially they are not separate. Do you mean because Friaxis occupies offices in a different location than Take2 Corporate? Surely you don't mean to suggest separate offices relieves Take2 of any obligation it has for Firaxis' activities. By that standard, any multinational corporation would be able to avoid responsibility for the acts of any of its non-HQ offices.

Let's look at the "process" you describe:

Firaxis gets paid by Take Two. So whether you or I buy the game doesn't impact them directly - in fact, they got paid for the game before we even had the option to buy it (yes, purists out there will note that some companies get royalties based on sales, but that generally isn't the majority of their income).

Firaxis does not get paid by Take2. If they did, they'd simply being paying themselves. As a wholly-owned subsidiary of Take2, Firaxis as a company receives nothing. Take2 simply absords the costs associated within running Firaxis and any of its other wholly-owned subsidiaries. If Take2 breaks out separate results for its subsidiaries, it does so simply for internal purposes (e.g., bonus calculations) and doing so has no legal effect outside of Take2.

So if you want to complain about someone, complain about Take Two. They are the ones who you bought the game from. They also, conveniently, are the ones who are in control of the release schedule for the patch. So if you want to complain about someone not keeping you in the loop, that's your target.

As pointed out above, there is no difference between the "they's" you mention. Under the doctrine of respondeat superior (and other applicable law) Take2 is responsible for the acts of Firaxis employees performed within the course of their employment.

Firaxis, on the other hand, has no control over the patch, and isn't going to see any extra money based on it. So any communication they give us about it is out of the kindness of their hearts.

Corporations do not do patches nor give out information "out of their kindness of their hearts." They literally have no hearts. They do both in order to improve their products, therefore helping new sales, and to enhance their relationships with their existing customers, so as to generate goodwill in the hope of future sales. Conversely, they are rightly concerned that their failure to improve their products and to communicate with their customers might well result in attracting fewer new customers and alienating their existing customer base. So, in fact, the only reason they do either is in the expectation that it will lead to future sales, or "extra money," as you put it. Without that expectation on their part, it would be a waste of time, effort and money.

When we see just how much crap they get when they do post (I refer you to all the bile directed Alex's way over the post he made), I'm not surprised in the slightest when he doesn't come back for a follow up. There's a good reason, I'm sure, why he posted the lastest news on Apolyton instead of here - over there, he doesn't get vilified if people's assumptions about his posts don't turn out to be true.

As I've posted before, if Alexman did not want to hear the opinions of his customers, he could have chosen not to solicit those opinions. But he did solicit them. If, after reading them, he didn't like what he read, his failure to address criticism he invited is, at the very least, unprofessional and, at worst, infantile.

You are free to be as forgiving as you please of Firaxis' shortcomings. But those who have complained when their opinions were solicited, as they were here, have every right to do so. Moreover, Alexman's posts (whether or not he intended them to be so) were and are made on behalf of both Firaxis and Take2 as a matter of law. He was acting as an agent for both. Therefore, both are responsible for his actions. When someone holds himself or herself out as a spokesperson for a company, it is reasonable to address that person as the agent for the company he or she professes to represent.

 

[Fire.Soul]

Some people truly need to learn the meaning of the word patience. -.-'

 

[Wodan]

Not posting it here meants more people here made more annoyed posts.

Whoa, that's a good technique. I'd love to use that in my professional repertoire. "lack of a thing = more people to the contrary".

Wodan

 

[Welnic]

Not posting it here meants more people here made more annoyed posts.

More people here made more annoyed posts means not posting it here.

 

[azzaman333]

Not posting it here meants more people here made more annoyed posts.

More people here made more annoyed posts means not posting it here.

Which results in an eternal cycle.

 

[JFLNYC]

More people here made more annoyed posts means not posting it here.

My head asplode!

 

[Wodan]

"Separate" in what sense? Legally they're not separate.

Yeah, they are. Your could sue one, and the other would not be liabile.

Financially they are not separate.

Uh, yeah, they are. One pays the other, but they still file separate tax returns.

As I've posted before, if Alexman did not want to hear the opinions of his customers, he could have chosen not to solicit those opinions. But he did solicit them. If, after reading them, he didn't like what he read, his failure to address criticism he invited is, at the very least, unprofessional and, at worst, infantile.

That assumes that Alexman is the protagonist in the former and in the latter, which is not necessarily true. In fact, it's not likely, either.

Wodan

 

[JFLNYC]

Wodan:

Firaxis and Take2 are consolidated financially. Upon acquiring Firaxis, Take2 added

"seasoned development studios, intellectual property, talented personnel and other resources to our existing infrastructure. The purchase method of accounting requires business combinations to be included in our consolidated financial statements from their acquisition dates forward."

(per Take2's most recent Annual Report).

Firaxis has no separate financial status. Moreover (also from the Annual Report):

We capitalize internal software development costs (including stock-based compensation, specifically identifiable employee payroll expense and incentive compensation costs related to the completion and release of titles)

IOW, development costs for BtS were both paid for and amortized by Take2.

We have established an internal royalty program that allows certain of our employees to participate in the success of software titles that they assist in developing. Royalties earned by employees under this program are recorded to cost of goods sold (royalties) as they are incurred.

And, as I predicted in my earlier post, Firaxis' results are only broken out for internal purposes related to employee bonuses.

I can find no evidence that Firaxis still exists as a separate legal entity. In fact, both the copyright for the game and the trademarks (including "Firaxis" itself) are held in the name of Take2. Take2's Annual Report refers to Firaxis as simply one of its "publishing labels." It's therefore very doubtful Firaxis files a separate tax return. If they do, they do so for pro forma purposes only and do not pay taxes separately inasmuch as their results are consolidated with Take2's.

 

[Backpack]

Not posting it here meants more people here made more annoyed posts.

It is a VERY rare day when quality information (Something important and pertinent to all readers) takes more than 12 hours to seap across from Poly to CFC or from CFC to Poly.

I have no examples but in my experience things take longer to filter from CFC to Poly (Most Poly folks know about CFC than the reverse).

In the end... Alexman Posted. You Read. You Learned. Now you Know.

The transport mechanism has nothing to do with the information.

Cheers

 

[alvan]

Im logging on these forums everyday now since the news about this patch, and every day Im disapointed.

Give us patch! Playing now feels different when you know that "soon" everything will change to the better.

 

[SwordofStriker]

Well, the fact is, I like others who have mentioned it, will not really know if the patch is worth the wait or not until I have it. I reserve judgement for things until I actually have something to judge.

I am however looking forward to the patch, but don't feel like I'm waiting as the game is playable as is.