PC.IGN's Warlords preview (4/28)

Also, it seems that the unit skins aren't civ specific

Although, there appear to be several new units shown in the Greek pics

They still might not have released information on all of the things to be added
 
Lord Olleus said:
I'm suprised noone has mentioned this. On some of the screen shots it shows walls across the country side. I wonder what they do? Are they just a chain of forts. Does the great wall of china actualy build a wall around your borders?

yeah, I thought it was just for the scenario, but there was mention of it somewhere that it is also in the screenshot with Carthage in it, which might suggest that it is a part of the normal game.
 
CyberChrist said:
Considering the political correctness about adding the historically insignificant Zulu's then I am surprised they named the Scandinavian civ Vikings - which actually only means Sea Raider and was never the name of a nation or a people as such(although I am aware that many have the false impression that it was/is).

Totally agreed with the first part, Zulus were didn't make an importan impact in the world history, although I'm a Shaka fan. And surely the Viking nation will be called Escandinavia.

About the Elephants, they scared to Roman soldiers, but did not change largely the Punic Wars.
Finally, the Ottoman leader should be Suleiman, but Mehmed is OK.
 
Watiggi said:
yeah, I thought it was just for the scenario, but there was mention of it somewhere that it is also in the screenshot with Carthage in it, which might suggest that it is a part of the normal game.

Lets just hope that if this is the case, it doesn't cause any slowdown in the game.
 
Lord Olleus said:
I'm suprised noone has mentioned this. On some of the screen shots it shows walls across the country side. I wonder what they do? Are they just a chain of forts. Does the great wall of china actualy build a wall around your borders?


I'm guessing the Great Wall (which is what it is) does make some kind of border around your territory.
 
Might just be graphical. When you build the great wall it sticks the walls around your current terriatory, but they don't actually do anything.
 
Lets hope it does :D
My guess is that it acts like a river, giving -25% strengh to units attacking across it.
 
No one has any guesses yet for the UU traits. Here are mine:

Zulu: A 2 move spear seems reasonable. Would be more of a unit to move with a horse than a pillager.
Carthage: Not really sure here. Was a better spear in civ3. but how to make different then phalanx. Maybe add melee bonus.
Celts. 2 move axe? There are currently no 2 move melee units in the game. In MP they may be imbalancing if included. Combo Horse Archer/Gallic stack would be a problem. Only good counter is the elephant. But of course you wont have ivory every game. Make it a sword to balance it a bit. No one uses swords in MP anyways, since they lose to horses and axe.
Korea: beefed up Cannon of course.
Ottomans. Not sure. Maybe some form of mace.
Vikings: Mace w/amphibious.
 
I don't want to be rude, but what are you talking about? Why are you guessing the UU's? They just told you in the article. Maybe you should read it before you post about it.

IGN said:
Each new civilization will have its own unique unit. Shaka's Zulus can make use of the Impi warriors while the Celts will be able to field Gallic Warriors. Koreans can utilize rocket-launching Hwacha to break up formations of Viking Berserkers. Ottoman Janissaries may find themselves sharing the field with Numidian Mercenaries hired by Carthage.
 
Fortunately I have no qualms about appearing rude. What makes you think he hasn't read the article so far? It looks to me like he's seen what the units are called, and is now speculating on what the new UU's will do. Maybe you should actually think about someone's post before you respond attacking it.

Watiggi said:
Vassal States. What is the point of letting the civ survive if all you really get is gold in tribute and war support? The war support wont be worth it if the AI is still the same as the AI attacks in its own time and with generally poor strategy anyway. What worth is a gold tribute to a warmonger when military units, research and production is what matters. Especially in civ4, gold is really worth nothing unless you have Universal Suffrage. The only value a gold tribute is to a warmonger is to fund expansion (ie, deficit spending) and / or a larger military - the former of which you wont need if you make them a Vassal State anyway. Based on what I have read, if this is all the Vassal State option is, I would rather take over the extra cities myself. Hmm, maybe the gold tribute is a gold per turn rather than a lump sum every so many turns. That would be better. One could expand and/or build a larger army with that :D

Based on what you've read? Almost nothing has been said about Vassal States so far, so you're making HUGE assumptions that this is all the Vassal States will do. The Vassal State will also allow you to take their land without having the city support cost affecting your cities, though that's quite minor, but I'm sure that they'll come up with a way of making it worth our while. Perhaps in war-time you'll get control of all units they create, and be able to throw them against your enemies as suicide troopers without causing war unhappiness. Perhaps all your cities will get a happiness boost thinking they're the greatest nation in the world (Just imagine, you hover the mouse cursor over the happiness chart and see, "+1 Happy: "USA! USA! USA!" :D)... let's wait and see :)
 
Mr. Do said:
Fortunately I have no qualms about appearing rude. What makes you think he hasn't read the article so far? It looks to me like he's seen what the units are called, and is now speculating on what the new UU's will do. Maybe you should actually think about someone's post before you respond attacking it.

Fortunately, I knew someone would not actually understand my post and was ready to reply. I can pretty much tell if someone did not read the article or doesn't know what the UU is historically.

CiverDan said:
Ottomans. Not sure. Maybe some form of mace.
IGN said:
Each new civilization will have its own unique unit. Shaka's Zulus can make use of the Impi warriors while the Celts will be able to field Gallic Warriors. Koreans can utilize rocket-launching Hwacha to break up formations of Viking Berserkers. Ottoman Janissaries may find themselves sharing the field with Numidian Mercenaries hired by Carthage.

Can you see the big give-away? :lol: I really did not wanna get into this, but you forced me :crazyeye:
 
WOO HOO! Finally an update!

Ramses II is in and there is still no Israel? Maybe Moses will be a religious unit in Egypt. We will see.

It's good to see the Civs that got added; but I wanted more.

Babylon is probably not added because they need people to speak the language for the game. There are Chaldean Christian communities in California that might be able to do such voice overs. I know that there are Assyrian Christians here for sure, I would assume the Aramaic language would be used? As for the Sumers, I don't believe anyone can speak their language. There is zero knowledge of their dialect, pronounciation or word usage anywhere. All we know about Sumer comes from the Babylonians.

3 Civilizations that need to be on the next Expansion are: Israel, Babylon and Abyssinia.

I'm excited about the Mongolian Settler Unit and the Vassal State. I hope Vassal States integrate to speak the master State's language but keep their ethnicity.

Just for kicks here's my wish-list again.

Europe
*Netherlands
*Portuguese
*Poland
*Austria
*Illyria
*Dacia
*Venice
*Minoa

Asia
*Tibet
*Siam
*Burma
*Vietnam
*Khumer
*Malay

Africa
*Abyssinia
*Nubia
*Ashanti
*Moors

America
*Inuits
*Iroquis
*Sioux
*Cherokee
*Apache
*Mayan

Mesopotamia
*Hit
*Armenia
*Assyria
*Babylon
*Israel
 
Greek Stud said:
Just for kicks here's my wish-list again.

Europe
*Netherlands
*Portuguese
*Poland
*Austria
*Illyria
*Dacia
*Venice
*Minoa

Asia
*Tibet
*Siam
*Burma
*Vietnam
*Khumer
*Malay

Africa
*Abyssinia
*Nubia
*Ashanti
*Moors

America
*Inuits
*Iroquis
*Sioux
*Cherokee
*Apache
*Mayan

Mesopotamia
*Hit
*Armenia
*Assyria
*Babylon
*Israel


This is meant to be Civilisation 4, not Barbarian 4.

Inuit - :lol:
 
Just a thought...
I suppose it will be relatively difficult to get another civilization to be a vassal state of yours as, technically, it would be impossible to win as a vassal stete (???). Of course you may win a cultural or space race victory, even a diplomatic vicotry if you´re the one who builds the United Natons - but your superior will probably see to that none things mentioned above occurs. Hence, as I see it, the only point in being a vassal state is to delay a defeat, or, if "fickle fortune" plays in your team, to later break the pact and attack your "protector"...
 
I think the point is, you as the player have vassal states. I don't think anyone would play as one.
 
A little disappointed to read the list of civs there were included. I wonder if they actually listened to us in that online poll Firaxis took a few months back; I seriously doubt how some civs like the Zulus and Koreans made the cut if they were.

Would have preferred Babylonians, Mayans, Ethiopians, and a Southeast Asian Civ like Vietnam or Thailand.

An oceanic civ would have been nice as well. Very glad to see the Ottomans being included. That was a must have. OK with Carthagianians, good to see a Northern African based civ outside of Egypt.

As for the new Civ-Leaders....I am the most disappointed in this regard. First off, only 4!?? I do not think it is too difficult to make new leaders and with all the help that modders here and elsewhere have done, it only makes their work easier.

Two thumbs way up for Augustus and Ramses II. These are two leaders which really should have been in the first edition; how the Mongols got 2 leaders but not the Romans, Greeks, Egyptians, Spanish, Japanese etc is something I'll never understand.

OK with Stalin, would have preferred Lenin myself but a Soviet-era leader was needed and a good argument can be made for Stalin's inclusion (on strictly power-based terms, not on moral ones or being a "good" leader in the moral sense)

But Churchill!? Disappointed with that one. As several other posters have mentioned, England has 2 leaders already; no that doesn't mean we should be pushing Firaxis to include obscure leaders for civs that don't need them, but there are several major civs, who only have 1 leader and deserve a 2nd leader just as much, if not more so than some of these other civs who have 2 leaders (and now 3)

Greece comes to mind. Greek culture and the impact of Greek civilization was so much more than the military conquests of Alexander the Great. It is true that Alexander's conquests helped spread Greek culture to other parts of the world, but without a strong culture to begin with, there would have been little for Alexander to spread in the first place. Pericles should be included as a 2nd leader for Greece.

Would also like to see 2nd leaders for Spain (Philip II - in my opinion, he is more worthy than Isabella), Japan (needs a modern leader, WWII era or not. Japan did not become a world power until the modern era and there should be a leader to represent this)

With the "Warlords" expansion, Firaxis probably wanted a more overt military-theme to the game and thus explain why some civs and some leaders who were not known, or perhaps best-known for war are not included. This explains the Babylonians and Pericles, however, it does not explain everything.

My hope (and expectation) is that a 2nd expansion will come out with most of the leaders/civs that the civ community wants. Who knows; financial motiation to keep us wanting more (and wanting to buy more) just might be another motivation as well.. :rolleyes:
 
for those upset about the civilization and new leader choices, you might want to keep in mind that there was an online poll (open to everyone) for new civs, leaders, units, etc. some time in the past. in the interview article from last week, i think it was mentioned that what they added is based largely on the results of that poll.

with the exception of small guidelines like leaving out hitler, probably most of the decisions are based on what people wanted. of course, they could have not completely followed the poll, but it's more likely they did in most cases. so they probably didn't choose to add the zulus for political correctness, but just because people wanted them (and they did). X civ wasn't left out because firaxis has something against them, but because X wasn't as strongly supported.

that said, i think the result of basing the decision on a poll has resulted in fairly unspurprising additions as far as civs and leaders go.

i also wanted to point out that there might be a lot of little changes that haven't been mentioned yet. for those thinking there isn't much there. they'll only talk about the big selling points right now.

[edit] i didn't catch the post above before i posted. again, it is totally posible that they didn't completely follow the poll. but i think they must have at least in part. there were definitely people who wanted to have zulus back. really, overall, there was a lot of "i used to play (or play against) XXX. i want to do that again." so that's mostly what happened . . .
 
thenooblet22 said:
Can you see the big give-away? :lol: I really did not wanna get into this, but you forced me :crazyeye:

The "big give-away" from the IGN article is that the UU is called "Ottoman Janissary". CiverDan is not speculating on what the units are going to be or what they will be called, as you inaccurately claim, but going further than the contents and guessing what their function in the game will be. IGN gives absolutely no indication of what those functions are, and what units they'll replace. You jumped the gun, now let's see if you'll be able to say, "Oh yes, maybe I was a bit hasty in attacking someone", or if you'll just repeat your previous argument that CiverDan didn't know what the UU's were. And of course, if CiverDan replies and says that he in fact hadn't read the article and was just guessing on what the UU's would be, then I'll happily say I was wrong :)
 
hey guys, i think a HUGELY interesting idea is now possible with the vassal state option. in the history of china, there have always been minor states that have been dominated by the major ones and then have risen up to become the dominent power (Zhou conquest of Shang) so perhaps the vassal could build up into a small army of highly disciplined and scientifically advanced units and overwhelm the larger power. on this note... i think im gonna start this scenario now.
 
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