Peloponnesian War Scenario Development Thread

Amenhotep7

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Sep 3, 2003
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Preparing for the Persians...
Hello Everyone!

I thought:I could make what I want in this scenario, but then I thought why not give the people what they want? I have completed these things thus far:

Units
Spartan Hoplite
Theban Hoplite
Theban Sacred Band
Citizen Hoplite
Perioikoi Hoplite
Trireme
Persian Galley

Civs
Sparta
Athens
Thebes

What I need:
Wonders
More appropriate tech tree
More civs??? :confused: :confused: :confused:
PediaIcons and Civpedia are almost done.
Please, I need input!

Credits thus far: Piernik-leaderheads
Kryten-hoplites
Ossric-map
Trireme-aaglo
Persian Galley-Tell me who you are, and I'll give credit
 
O no! I put this in the wrong forum! Mods, move this before zulu comes!
 
22 views and no replies???:confused:
 
there needs to be a few more units-

Epheboi corps- an Athenian elite branch of hoplite, I suggest making them marines to represent Athens naval prowess (and how the first peloponesian war hinged on Athen sability to make sea born raids against Sparta, and her Allies

Ephebes- a lesser Athenian Hoplite, these were youths in training
 
Zulu_WRONG_FORUM_animation.gif
 
How large a geographic scope are you planning? Besides Athens, Sparta and Thebes there were:

The Bosporan Kingdom (Crimea)
Still-mighty Persia
Kingdom Of Macedon
Syracuse (eastern Sicily and the southernmost strip of Italy)
The Latin Legue (proto-Romans)
Etruscans
Carthage (already at her greatest geographic extent)
Egypt
The Kingdom Of Meroe (the Nile south of the 2nd cataract)
Masilia (roughly the southern coast of modern-day France)
& endlessly annoying Scythians et. al.

-Oz
 
Ozy-
These r great suggestions, but I'm also in need of someone who can at least get me static flcs for these leaders. Can someone help? There's a spot in the credits for you...:)

P.S. The civs I'm searching for are nowhere south of Crete, Nowhere east of Turkey, nowhere west of the greek mainland, and nowhere north of Macedon. See Ossric's map for details on the geographic range.

P.P.S. I need a semi-talented unit maker to just edit some of Kryten's units to make the units Xen suggested.

Over 90 views and the history buff Kryten isn't here? :lol:
 
Krten has a multi unit hoplite with an owl on it- attach a black cloak to it, and it is the perfect Epheboi commander
 
also, a refined list of civs-
-major players-
Athens
Sparta
far western Persia


-indipendent city states, leagues, and kingdoms-
Thebes
Argos
Corinth
Thessaly
Macedon
Epirus
Achea
Aetolia
Crete
Rhodes (if on map)

as a note, the map REALLY should include souther italy, some of the most important battles of the war, most importantlly the unfortunate disater at Syracuse for the Atheniansm, was crucial to the war!
 
All right- I'll see what I can do with Loulong's map...I like ur ideas, but 1) Me: No unit-making expeirience...Couldja make it for me???U would be semi-revered for expanding on Kryten's Hoplites... Or could you tell me what to do???2) I'm gonna need leaderheads...How do I get still images and turn them into flics?

Edit: More than 120 views and only a few people helped...

Edit2: I take a look at Loulong's map, and I think it makes the area crowded. And since I'm blocking off settlers, it would make the game perhaps too quick...:(
 
I agree Sicily must be in! And that means that at the very least you need the Syracusans as a civ (clumping down with Lacedaemon would feel very wrong).

I assume the Athenian "empire" will be all under direct Athenian control, but but what about the Peloponnesian League? Of the cuff I'd suggest that Sparta control directly only Lacedaemon and Messenia, plus possibly some minor members of the League, but for instance Corinth should better be an independent civ I think.
 
Good ideas...I may have to clump everyone together, or maybe a map conversion...Anybody know where to get those cool color conversion maps???

Okay, people...I've decided to release 2 versions...I like Ossric's map better, for more territory and space for the civs, so I'll release one version w/ Ossric's map and one version w/ LouLong's map... Don't be shy, people! I see lots of views on the view counter! If you don't know what to contribute, consult the first post. I eagerly await your advice! P.S. Where's Kryten???:confused:
 
Awhile back, there was someone else (SpincruS) who wanted to do a Peleponesian War Scenario. I said that the map must extend into Asia Minor (The Athenian's ionian allies, plus the ever dangerous Persians) and all the way to Sicily. East Sicily would be the minimum, but giving Carthage control of the west would be interesting (the greatest portion of Carthage's histroy involved wars over the control of Sicily. They even allied with the Etruscans against the Greeks in Sicily and Italy). I said I wasn't sure if Rome should be in (you could use the Greek cities in Italy instead, such as Terentum and Cumae).

He felt that the main thing in the map would be the Aegean Islands. "(I'm not talking about the major islands only, but also the smaller ones). Melos, a small island (colony of Corinth) that didn't accept to join the Athenian alliance, for example, was destroyed by the Athenians and re-colonized by them. Potidea, although not an island, was important.

Furthermore, Cosira, the second strongest naval power in the peninsula after Athens, was somewhat more to the north of the Ionian sea."

Anyway, I thought I'd bring up those points that I had already discussed on a previous project (I don't know if SpincruS will ever finish his project, I guess I could ask him to help with this one). I'd like to help with this one as well.

I would have the Delian League as a definate under Athenian Control (at this point, the tresury had been moved into Athens and its league members were forced to stay in this Athenian Empire). Sparta was a little different. They basically have the southern Peleponese under their direct control, but they had other states who agreed to give support if they go to war with Atehn (The Peleponesian League). I think they should be several civs (I'm not sure the exact many, though, but Thebes and Syracuse would probably be allied civs).

I think a lot of units should have amphibious ability since most of the fighting was raids and counter raids of the opponent's allied islands. Sparta had no seige equiptment to break the Longwalls, Athens didn't have a strong enough army to break the Spartan stronghold on the continent (although they did manage at one point to break the myth of Spartan superiority and get some Spartans to surrender). Plague affected Athens a lot (either you can represent this with jungle or Flood plain, or just wait and see what Conquests can do).

I did some thinking about units. After the war, when Thebes fought Sparta, Sparta's greatest weaknesses were discovered. The age of the old Hoplite battle systems (Hoplites would meet head on and would win in basically a battle of wills, which Sparta had the advantage) was over. New infantry formations (such as stacking hoplites twice as deep on one side, as oppoesed to 3 even sides), Missile Tactics, and seige equiptment (seige Towers, Battering Rams) were becoming more important. If your game goes past the end of the war, this would be an important factor.

But if it ends eariler than that point (and the rise of Macedonia as well), I'll see if I can think of anything to add.

What about Persian Immortals (Don't use them like they are represented in the game, give them Spears, and don't make them able to be built. They were Royal body guards, not military units). In addition, you should give the Persians some kind of Persian looking Archer (I don't know if anyone made it, though), Persian looking Horse Archer, some Greek Mercenaries (probably from Ionia, but it doesn't really matter), and Spearmen (not sure if its possible to get a Persian looking Spearmen that doesn't look like an Immortal).

That's Persia, I can't think of many unique Greek units, and all that's left is possible civs in the west (Carthage, Rome, the Etruscans are ideas, no matter how poor).
 
Great ideaS, Louie!:goodjob:
My current civ list is this:
Persia
Delian League
Peloponnesian League
Thebes(MAybe part of Peloponnesian League???)
Kingdom of Macedon
Crete(Maybe)
Sicilians
Rhodes
Aetolia(Maybe)
 
personally, I think renameing the delian league to just the "Athenian empire" is more accurate...

but PLEASE include Argos as an independent power- they allien with, and against Athens throuoght the wars, aside from the general position of neutral- I'll try to get a scan of a books EXCELLENT picture of peloponesian politics...
 
Thnx, Xen...Alright...Athenian Empire it is...Argos as an independent power: okey dokey. (Though on LouLong's map, it shall have only one city :rolleyes: ) How's my civ list??? (I need city list for Peloponnesian League..
 
I actually prefer Delian League (but won't argue too much if you choose otherwise)

Here's a quick pic I found about the geographical alliances. This lists Sparta's allies as one entity, but I think Thebes at the minimum should be seperate (because the later Thebian-Athenian attack on Sparta, Thebes needs to have some independence)

http://www.gogreece.com/classroom/images/citystat.gif

A book I had lists the Peleponese like this:

Spartan Territory and Spartan occupied in the south of the region, Elis, Arcadia, and Corinth is allied, Achaea and Argolis (Argos) are neutral

Syracuse would be Spartan allied as well, but they hardly mentioned Syracuse at all (aside from the direct battle after the defection of Alcibiades and I think they mentioned it when they showed Phoenician and Greek colonies throughout Europe).

This might not be a popular idea, but what about the possibility of a "Neutral Greeks"? This would include the areas of the Peleponese that weren't allied to Sparta, but not Macedonia.

I have 2 questions, though. How big will the map be? I would like a really big map that includes most of the islands in the Aegean, and extends to East Sicily.
The other is a question about the editor. At this time, can you set the nationality of workers? (like make Messenian Slave Workers). The Helots were the backbone of Spartan labor, and they shouldn't need to build regular workers.
 
there should be several "indipendent regions"- and nammed after thire real life regions as it woul densure that not all the "indipendents" become alliad to one of the powers (and there fore not be indipendent anylonger)
 
I was thinking something like one mainland-based Neutral Greek (Argos, Achaea, and I think there was some on the other side, where Delphi is). But it would be more realistic to have seperate city-states (I've played on maps where a civ got only one city, although they were the very weak, they didn't do bad culturally and commercially. They could give me some gold every turn, probably about as much as anyone else).

One thing makes me wonder, though. Would it be possible to have a map stretching from Asia Minor to Sicily without having Italy? Something will have to be decided about that land, won't it? I think this would be a lot simpler if it wasn't for Syracuse and Aegosotami (which streches the map much further north and west).
 
The map would HAVE to go further then Aegospotami anyway to show all of the Athenian empire- right up to the city of yue guessed it, BYZANTIUM :D :goodjob: ;) (sans cataphract ;))
 
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