Perry, a searing contempt for women

[Arakhor]

Perry is a bit of a hero. In a nation and world of baby murderers he takes a stand.

Western moral standards would have to improve exponentially just to reach Taliban levels. We need Perry.

Is this sarcasm? It's an American political position (of any sort), so it could be either!

 

[Junius]

No, it is not "pure convenience". That is an utterly disgusting claim. Abortions happen for many reasons. Convenience isn't one of them. Not in any significant numbers, at any rate.

Of course it is. I link it earlier in the thread the percentages, as listed by a division of planned parenthood, why a woman gets an abortion. The vast majority is simply they don't want a child or can't afford one. Hence, it is inconvenient. It is certainly a difficult decision, but it is a matter of not wanting to deal with a child at the present time. What else do you call it? The facts say that very few abortions are for health reasons or for rape or incest. Those are the facts. Here is the link once more.http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abortion/abreasons.html

You want an American Taliban to take us back to the dark ages?

The 60's were the dark ages?

 

[Cutlass]

Of course it is. I link it earlier in the thread the percentages, as listed by a division of planned parenthood, why a woman gets an abortion. The vast majority is simply they don't want a child or can't afford one. Hence, it is inconvenient. It is certainly a difficult decision, but it is a matter of not wanting to deal with a child at the present time. What else do you call it? The facts say that very few abortions are for health reasons or for rape or incest. Those are the facts. Here is the link once more.http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abortion/abreasons.html



The 60's were the dark ages?

That is not in any way comparable to inconvenience. You are entirely trivializing it.

That other guy said:

Western moral standards would have to improve exponentially just to reach Taliban levels. We need Perry.

Taliban levels is not the 60s. It's the 1200s.

 

[Arakhor]

The 60's were the dark ages?

You're not black, I take it?

 

[Junius]

You're not black, I take it?

Not indeed, though that was in regards to abortion laws. Plus as bad as the 60's were for american blacks if you wanted a dark ages you could pick from many more qualified time periods.

That is not in any way comparable to inconvenience. You are entirely trivializing it

Of course it is. The top reasons involve, can't afford a child right now, not ready for a child right now, and a child would change her lifestyle too much. Those may be valid issues, but they all relate to how easy or comfortable life would be for the mother. Convenience.

 

[Cutlass]

Not indeed, though that was in regards to abortion laws. Plus as bad as the 60's were for american blacks if you wanted a dark ages you could pick from many more qualified time periods.



Of course it is. The top reasons involve, can't afford a child right now, not ready for a child right now, and a child would change her lifestyle too much. Those may be valid issues, but they all relate to how easy or comfortable life would be for the mother. Convenience.

That is not within many orders of magnitude with anything that could be described as "convenience".

 

[GhostWriter16]

You want an American Taliban to take us back to the dark ages?

While I definitely don't think being pro-life applies as this, that comment did seem a bit silly. I don't think we WANT to be as conservative as the Taliban.

Perry a man who values human life, despite literally putting people on death row and killing then.

Cognitive dissonance at it's best.

Oh, innocent infants are valueless, but those poor criminals!

Devil's Advocate, Perry allowing people to be put on death row isn't "Literally" killing them. You could argue he holds responsibility (For which I would give him kudos) but its still not literally him killing anyone.

* Birth control (contraceptive) failure. Over half of all women who have an abortion used a contraceptive method during the month they became pregnant.2

Conveinience. They tried to avoid the pregnancy, but (Inconveiniently) it happened.

* Inability to support or care for a child.

In some sense this is "Conveinience" justified or no.

* To end an unwanted pregnancy.

Convenience by DEFINITION.

* To prevent the birth of a child with birth defects or severe medical problems. Such defects are often unknown until routine second-trimester tests are done.

Sounds very Hitler-esque, killing the undesirables.

* Pregnancy resulting from rape or incest.

Technically you can argue that this is "Convenience" of making it easier to forget because it should be just as possible to put the child up for adoption and still forget. And realisitically, aborting the child won't help you forget. That said, this is the first category that could really be debated on that list, the other three were quite obviously for convenience. This one does go a bit deeper, but its still murder.

* Physical or mental conditions that endanger the woman's health if the pregnancy is continued.

Again, it is still a matter of taking the woman's needs over the child's and again, this is a bit tougher. But these and the type directly above are only like 5% of abortions. The other 95% come from guess where? CONVENENCE!

In the United States, 9 out of 10 abortions are performed in the first 12 weeks (first trimester) of pregnancy. Most of these are done within the first 9 weeks of pregnancy.2

I don't give a crap, its still murder.

 

[useless]

Either life is valuable, or it isn't Dommy. You can't pick and choose.

 

[GhostWriter16]

Either life is valuable, or it isn't Dommy. You can't pick and choose.

Then why don't you support capital punishment?

For the record- I think life is valuable. I think killing someone (Unless there are migitating circumstances) makes you lose the right to keep yours.

 

[useless]

So, according to your own logic, why aren't you arguing for US, British and NATO soldiers in Afghanistan and Iraq to be executed? Or hell, even Perry himself?

 

[GhostWriter16]

So, according to your own logic, why aren't you arguing for US, British and NATO soldiers in Afghanistan and Iraq to be executed? Or hell, even Perry himself?

Fighting in war isn't murder.

The value of a criminal life isn't quite as valuable as an innocent persons' life.

This is just going in circles

 

[useless]

Who are you to judge whose life is valuable or not? Who should die or not? Isn't that the same thing you accuse abortionists of doing?

 

[GhostWriter16]

Who are you to judge whose life is valuable or not? Who should die or not? Isn't that the same thing you accuse abortionists of doing?

I wasn't trying to downplay the significance of life, but to say that there are certain actions that you can commit that can make you lose your right to live.

As for accusing abortionists, I don't think I've thrown accusations yet other than ones based on fact (That it IS murder to have an abortion.) That said, abortionists claim a woman can terminate her child in a womb because (95% of the time) its more conveinient. This is VERY different than the idea that a cold-hearted murderer or rapist should die for his crimes.

Heck, I find it ironic that a lot of (Not all, but most of the "Liberal" ones) will cry wolf if we try to execute a woman's rapist (Heck, most people oppose the idea) yet they are perfectly fine with killing the fetus who committed no such crime.

 

[useless]

Abortion being murder is not an actual fact. It's not even been proven objectively.

Abortion isn't convenient, it's a disgusting, horrible process and probably emotionally traumatizing one at that, and all you're doing is trivializing it, and making it seem like an easy thing to do.

 

[GhostWriter16]

If people would grow a brain and abstain, we wouldn't have this problem now, would we?

But the whole argument is based on convenience.

Me: Well, why can't you just abstain?

Abortionist Murderer: Well, that would be inconvenient. I like the pleasures of sex.

Me: You could put the child up for adoption if your birth control doesn't work.

Abortionist Murderer: But then I have to endure the pain of giving birth!

Me: Well, dang it! Isn't that your problem for choosing not to abstain?

Abortionist Murderer: No because the fetus is just a mess of cells.

Me: Since when does a mess of cells have a FREAKING HEARTBEAT!

Abortionist Murderer: Nevermind, what if the woman is raped? Surely murder, I mean, AHEM, ABORTION should be OK then.

Me: Yeah, because the infant should totally suffer for the crimes of his father, shouln't he? but, won't you at least support the execution of the rapist? I mean, this guy created this whole dang problem, didn't he?

Abortionist Murderer: No, this isn't acceptable, you are violating the sanctity of life.

Me: I could ask "Since when have you given a darn?" But instead I will simply say, why? Killing the guilty and letting the innocent live makes perfect sense. Inverting the process is the definition of illogic.

Abortionist Murderer: Neener neener neener. What if the abortion will save the mothers life?

Me: Well, that certainly isn't a case of conveinience, and it is a bit of a different circumstance, however it is still morally wrong because the infant is as much alive as the mother.

Abortionist Murderer: Neener neener neener, not considering differing circumstances!

Me: Well, if I murder an infant, do circumstances matter?

Abortionist Murderer: No that would be murder and is unacceptable.

Me: Well, I believe a fetus is as much a person as an infant outside the womb, and I think its heartbeat certainly proves it is more than a block of cells. Can you please acknolwedge my points instead of continuing to demonize the pro-life movement?

 

[useless]

And if only rapists would stop and if only incest never occured.

 

[Core Imposter]

Its worse than useless to bring rape and incest into a discussion about abortion.

 

[useless]

Not really, given how some don't want to allow access to abortion for victims of both.

 

[GhostWriter16]

And if only rapists would stop and if only incest never occured.

Well, incest is kinda a buzzword in these discussions, as it could mean so many different things, anywhere from two first cousins wanting to get married (Though the law doesn't allow that) to father rapes his daughter sort of thing. Better to drop the word when it comes to abortion discussions.

Second of all, you know what might HELP getting rapists to stop? Harsher penalties. Whip out the freaking electric chairs!

 

[useless]

Would you still force a rape victim to give birth?

Even when she asks for an abortion?