Petition for the Maya.

[Xandinho]

Ethiopia and Byzantines are iffy, even though they should be included, but for other reasons may not be as glaring omissions as the above 3 since Ethiopia was introduced way later than others and the Byzantines cover a large area occupied by many other Civs and needed less than the above mentioned (I hate saying this by the way).

I agree with your reasoning, but I'll be sad if Ethiopia and Byzantium don't return, especially Ethiopia. Though of all the civs missing, I'm most missing Maya and Babylon/Assyria.

I was thinking, if there is a third expansion, I think Ethiopia has a good chance of being added. My understanding is: they are adding leaders from all eras to all continents, and Africa is the only continent that does not yet have a modern leader (Americas have Teddy, Asia has Gandhi, Europe has Wilhelmina and Oceania has Curtin). So, if they will add a modern African leader, Haile Selassie is the most obvious choice. I would prefer Ethiopia being led by Zara Yaqob, but I would rather have Ethiopia led by Haile Selassie than not have Ethiopia in any way.

Another option for modern African leader would be Menelik II, another Ethiopian leader. Not as modern as Haile Selassie, though.

Well, we need to lean on some hope.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I was thinking, if there is a third expansion, I think Ethiopia has a good chance of being added. My understanding is: they are adding leaders from all eras to all continents, and Africa is the only continent that does not yet have a modern leader (Americas have Teddy, Asia has Gandhi, Europe has Wilhelmina and Oceania has Curtin). So, if they will add a modern African leader, Haile Selassie is the most obvious choice. I would prefer Ethiopia being led by Zara Yaqob, but I would rather have Ethiopia led by Haile Selassie than not have Ethiopia in any way.

Another option for modern African leader would be Menelik II, another Ethiopian leader. Not as modern as Haile Selassie, though.

Well, we need to lean on some hope.

Well on the flipside I would rather more ancient/classical leaders.
I consider Axum as classical Ethiopia so Ezana would be my choice.
However I would also take Halie Selassie again just to get Ethiopia.

What about South America?
Well Eva Peron could work... but at this point there are better options than adding Argentina.

 

[Zaarin]

I'll take Selassie or Menelik, but Zar'a Ya'qob is my choice as well.

 

[Greywulf]

I'm not quite sure they've stepped back from being overly Eurocentric considering we might get Hungary and Sweden in this expansion, not that it's a bad thing.
But I agree that there are some crazy omissions that probably need to point to either a third expansion or post GS DLC.
The main ones I can think of are:
Portugal- the first maritime empire in the world
Maya- the longest running major civilization in the Pre-Colombian Americas
Babylon (or Assyria)- Just because Sumeria isn't enough to cover that region and Babylon has been there since the beginning

Ethiopia and Byzantines are iffy, even though they should be included, but for other reasons may not be as glaring omissions as the above 3 since Ethiopia was introduced way later than others and the Byzantines cover a large area occupied by many other Civs and needed less than the above mentioned (I hate saying this by the way).

I don't think it would be fair to exclude a civ simply because it wasn't one of the classical civs from the beginning of the game series. Ethiopia may have appeared relatively recently, however it's one of the most ideal African civs for the game, and I would be disappointed not seeing them.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I don't think it would be fair to exclude a civ simply because it wasn't one of the classical civs from the beginning of the game series. Ethiopia may have appeared relatively recently, however it's one of the most ideal African civs for the game, and I would be disappointed not seeing them.

If I was designing the game, it would be my second pick of Sub-Saharan African Civs to include. Mali would come first for obvious reasons.
In the grand scheme of things I was just pointing out that their omission, so far, isn't as big as probably the Maya, Portugal and Babylon, for the reasons I stated above for many other players, if the leak is true and none of these will be in the GS expansion.
I agree that if Poland, Brazil and Indonesia can keep on returning after their first appearance, so should Ethiopia. And I think they have a real chance as long as we have either a third expansion or late development cycle DLC along with the other Civs I've mentioned.

 

[Lord Lakely]

I obviously support the Mayans. The Mayans should've been in the base game, *over* the Aztecs (even if Civ 6's Aztecs are like... the best incarnation of the Aztecs yet). The notion that it is acceptable to skip over a civ JUST BECAUSE a geographically nearby civ already has been added is total bull. It's like skipping France because you've already added Germany and Spain to the base game. or skipping Byzantium because you already have Thrace, skipping Assyria because you already have the Hittites, skipping Ethiopia because you already have Nubi- oh...

Ethiopia under Empress Taytu Betul would be a splending addition to an expansion which ehances diplomacy. Extra combat strength with civs that have earned many grievances against Ethiopia would be a great ability to punish backstabbers and warmongers where it really hurts. (If people REALLY dislike the notion of Queens-Consort leading civs (lol poor eleanor) you can use Menelik II for this as well, I guess.)

 

[Basileus Rhomaion]

Maya are among the 5-6 major civs that their omission after 2 years in the game's development cycle is honestly baffling. The others being Portugal, Byzantium, Ethiopia, Assyria and Carthage.

Sidenote, I find it hilarious that the only member who has voted to abstain thus far is someone called "Nobody"

 

[ehecatzin]

Too many fan favorites out to be coincidence, either third xpack is already planned or a large batch of DLC's.

I just hope that when they add them they will do a decent rendition of Pacal (no apocalypto nonsense) I mean we do have a pretty good representation of him done in his lifetime. http://www.chapala.com/chapala/magnifecentmexico/pacal/pakal.jpg

 

[Zaarin]

Pacal's a fine choice, but since the Maya have the best female options of any civ indigenous to the New World I'd still hope for someone like Lady Six Sky or Yohl Ik'nal.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Maya are among the 5-6 major civs that their omission after 2 years in the game's development cycle is honestly baffling. The others being Portugal, Byzantium, Ethiopia, Assyria and Carthage.

Funny that you mention Assyria over Babylon. I'd prefer them too.
I'm pretty sure Carthage is going to be folded into Dido's Phoenicia which honestly I'm not going to complain.
As for the rest I think a lot of us are going to feel this game is incomplete if we don't get the Civs mentioned above.

 

[ehecatzin]

Pacal's a fine choice, but since the Maya have the best female options of any civ indigenous to the New World I'd still hope for someone like Lady Six Sky or Yohl Ik'nal.

Yeah you make a good point, Firaxis isn't going to pass up the oportunity. I just hope they keep the Apocalypto imagery to a minimum.

Funny that you mention Assyria over Babylon. I'd prefer them too.
I'm pretty sure Carthage is going to be folded into Dido's Phoenicia which honestly I'm not going to complain.
As for the rest I think a lot of us are going to feel this game is incomplete if we don't get the Civs mentioned above.

Honestly, If true, I prefer the switch from Carthage to Phoenicia to detach it from revolving around Rome so much.

 

[Basileus Rhomaion]

I'm pretty sure Carthage is going to be folded into Dido's Phoenicia which honestly I'm not going to complain.

Which shouldn't happen imo, as Carthage developed a unique civilization of its own and reached a level of power that Phoenician city-states never had. And given that we have essentially sacrificed a civ spot thus far to include Macedon on top of Greece, it'd be more than fair to have both Phoenicia and Carthage.

Honestly, If true, I prefer the switch from Carthage to Phoenicia to detach it from revolving around Rome so much.

Carthage was a regional great power when Rome was still effectively a collection of minor towns and villages in Latium. The association people make for Carthage as just that state the Romans obliterated is exactly the version of history the Romans tried hard to perpetuate in an attempt to erase all remnants of the Carthaginian civilization.

 

[Greywulf]

Which shouldn't happen imo, as Carthage developed a unique civilization of its own and reached a level of power that Phoenician city-states never had. And given that we have essentially sacrificed a civ spot thus far to include Macedon on top of Greece, it'd be more than fair to have both Phoenicia and Carthage.

Thinking about it, Phoenicia really is an ideal candidate to be made into City States, i.e. Byblos, Tyre, and Sidon. Still, I am interested in Phoenicia as a playable civ anyway, as it would make for a bit of a change, while not excluding that culture. Either way, Dido could be used as a leader though, but I think Carthage is more likely to have a male leader.

 

[Basileus Rhomaion]

Thinking about it, Phoenicia really is an ideal candidate to be made into City States, i.e. Byblos, Tyre, and Sidon. Still, I am interested in Phoenicia as a playable civ anyway, as it would make for a bit of a change, while not excluding that culture. Either way, Dido could be used as a leader though, but I think Carthage is more likely to have a male leader.

I have no problem with Phoenicia, but I do have a problem with the prospect of the permanent omission of Carthage due to the latter. Dido is also a bad choice for either imo because she is essentially a nigh-mythical figure. It's like making Achilles ruler of the Greeks; he might have existed, but he has been extensively mythologized and whatever we know about him is from legends. She is going to be in the expansion though, so alright I guess ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Thinking about it, Phoenicia really is an ideal candidate to be made into City States, i.e. Byblos, Tyre, and Sidon. Still, I am interested in Phoenicia as a playable civ anyway, as it would make for a bit of a change, while not excluding that culture. Either way, Dido could be used as a leader though, but I think Carthage is more likely to have a male leader.

I'm pretty sure Carthage is going to be on the city list of Phoenicia though, which was my point about combining them.

 

[Zaarin]

Yeah you make a good point, Firaxis isn't going to pass up the oportunity. I just hope they keep the Apocalypto imagery to a minimum.

Quetzal-bedecked Montezuma doesn't exactly inspire hope, but here's hoping anyway.

Honestly, If true, I prefer the switch from Carthage to Phoenicia to detach it from revolving around Rome so much.

I prefer Carthage to Phoenicia because it was unified and had known leaders; I just want Firaxis to realize that Carthage had an existence beyond "Rome's enemy."

Which shouldn't happen imo, as Carthage developed a unique civilization of its own and reached a level of power that Phoenician city-states never had. And given that we have essentially sacrificed a civ spot thus far to include Macedon on top of Greece, it'd be more than fair to have both Phoenicia and Carthage.

Yes, I 100% agree. Fun fact: Punic is the only Classical language other than Latin known to have translated Greek plays into its own language.

Byblos, Tyre, and Sidon.

I'm actually really curious if Gubal/Byblos will be on Phoenicia's city list. It spoke a dialect of Phoenician (albeit an unusual one), but politically and culturally it was very different from Tyre and Sidon. Considering the state of other civs' city lists, though, I guess I should just assume it will be there.

Either way, Dido could be used as a leader though, but I think Carthage is more likely to have a male leader.

Yes, please choose a real person like Hannibal Barca or one of the Magonids!

I have no problem with Phoenicia, but I do have a problem with the prospect of the permanent omission of Carthage due to the latter. Dido is also a bad choice for either imo because she is essentially a nigh-mythical figure. It's like making Achilles ruler of the Greeks; he might have existed, but he has been extensively mythologized and whatever we know about him is from legends. She is going to be in the expansion though, so alright I guess ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Or choosing Gilgamesh for Sumeria. >_<

I'm pretty sure Carthage is going to be on the city list of Phoenicia though, which was my point about combining them.

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised that the Carthage city-state stays right where it is, which is an absolutely hilarious irony: we get a collection of city-states as a civ while the actual empire remains a city-state. We might see it as Qart-ḥadast on Dido's list, though, and it could even be her capital. It would hardly be the only doublet in the game.

 

[TahamiTsunami]

I was curious about why they'd have Phoenicia over Carthage. Maybe this Civ would basically be Carthage in everything but name. Apart from more Phoenician cities in the city list, the only thing I could see them adding would be the Civ ability being more reflective of Phoenician history in general. I'll try to be fair to Dido but I'm still a bit disappointed to not see Hannibal.

Back to the Maya, if we need a Male leader, I think Yuknoom the Great would be a cool new choice but I'd also prefer to get an exemplary female leader like Wak.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I'm actually really curious if Gubal/Byblos will be on Phoenicia's city list. It spoke a dialect of Phoenician (albeit an unusual one), but politically and culturally it was very different from Tyre and Sidon. Considering the state of other civs' city lists, though, I guess I should just assume it will be there.


Actually, I wouldn't be surprised that the Carthage city-state stays right where it is, which is an absolutely hilarious irony: we get a collection of city-states as a civ while the actual empire remains a city-state. We might see it as Qart-ḥadast on Dido's list, though, and it could even be her capital. It would hardly be the only doublet in the game.

I fully expect Tyre, Sidon, Byblos and Carthage to be like the first four cities on there list. Besides we did get a confirmation that you can build a cothon in the game and it wouldn’t make any since to have that and not the city with the most famous one.
On the whole “Rome’s greatest enemy” that might be why they decided to go with Phoenicia this time around making it less militaristic, though I agree it still could have done with Carthage.

 

[Zaarin]

I was curious about why they'd have Phoenicia over Carthage. Maybe this Civ would basically be Carthage in everything but name.

I suspect this is the case. Like the Maori, it will be "new but not really."

I'll try to be fair to Dido but I'm still a bit disappointed to not see Hannibal.

It's hard to be fair to Dido when there's scant evidence that she even existed.

On the whole “Rome’s greatest enemy” that might be why they decided to go with Phoenicia this time around making it less militaristic, though I agree it still could have done with Carthage.

Honestly making Carthage a military power was wrong in the first place. Carthage should be all about trade and exploration. Phoenicia is the same, sure, but with fewer leader choices.

Back to the Maya, if we need a Male leader, I think Yuknoom the Great would be a cool new choice but I'd also prefer to get an exemplary female leader like Wak.

If we get a male leader for the Maya, though, it really is hard to beat Janaab' K'inich Pakal, i.e., Pacal the Great. Among other things, he's one of the longest reigning monarchs in the world...

 

[Greywulf]

I have no problem with Phoenicia, but I do have a problem with the prospect of the permanent omission of Carthage due to the latter. Dido is also a bad choice for either imo because she is essentially a nigh-mythical figure. It's like making Achilles ruler of the Greeks; he might have existed, but he has been extensively mythologized and whatever we know about him is from legends. She is going to be in the expansion though, so alright I guess ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I actually expected the devs to try even harder than they have to put more female leaders into the game than usual. Dido might be bordering myth, but lots of famous historical leaders or people are too. Doesn't mean that they weren't real people, as there probably was someone to begin with, but most likely just means that their life stories were exaggerated over time. I don't have a problem with Dido as a leader for Phoenicia/Carthage.

I'm pretty sure Carthage is going to be on the city list of Phoenicia though, which was my point about combining them.

With Dido as their leader, this doesn't surprise me. That does mean that Carthage and Phoenicia are essentially being combined...for now at least. I know that they are both good choices for separate civs, but personally I don't mind. We can't have everyone, and there will always been someone missing out, and civs we want that don't make it.

I'm actually really curious if Gubal/Byblos will be on Phoenicia's city list. It spoke a dialect of Phoenician (albeit an unusual one), but politically and culturally it was very different from Tyre and Sidon. Considering the state of other civs' city lists, though, I guess I should just assume it will be there.

Yeah, I'm expecting Byblos to be listed.