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Petition : Recall 2k Elizebeth

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by evrett37, May 12, 2010.

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  1. grommit5

    grommit5 Warlord

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    The only thing that should be nipped in the butt is this thread. Elizbeth has been nothing but GREAT since she started posting here.
     
  2. PieceOfMind

    PieceOfMind Drill IV Defender Retired Moderator

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    I see you are starting to be more reasonable about it. Remember that I do in essence agree with your assertion there is an apparent conflict of interest. But dropping comments like "fat child buggering nazi" are downright offensive and definitely personal. I know you didn't call her that but even mentioning it is completely unnecessary and basically amounts to flame bait.

    If you want to get your message across, and I know it will be difficult because this is indeed a community of civ fanatics, I can only suggest you do it in a civilized and tactful way. If people flame you or troll you for voicing your opinion, just report them. You will obviously need to expect to find a lot of people disagreeing with you and I think it will show great character if you can resist the temptation to get dragged into a flame war.

    On the topic of the thread, one thing I'd note right now is that there isn't a huge need for a customer service rep yet so the conflict of interest is not a big problem. I would expect that most communication at this point be marketing. Some months down the road, the situation might be different.
     
  3. Thyrwyn

    Thyrwyn Guardian at the Gate

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    I have worked in Customer Service. I have worked in Sales & Marketing. I find the claim that the two fields represent "conflicting interests" to be rather ludicrous. No contemporary, successful, business model works that way. They aren't operating a "boiler room" operation, people.

    Happy Customers are the best possible marketing tool. In the current era of social networking and online communities, this has never been more true.

    Someone is over-reacting.

    /NOT signed
     
  4. evrett37

    evrett37 Prince

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    It is now that we most need a customer rep that speak for us and we can trust before the baby has been born funny, while we can still make a difference. Elizbeth claims it was "her" polling data that sold the farm on the inclusion of Steam. I'm trying not to be personal but I think she eithere screwed up or misrepresented the the data. Any student of history would know companies and governments regularly throw honesty out the window when it comes to explaining unpopular decisions to the masses. She has so far refused to walk her talk and show any proof of this overwhelming support in analytical form and a customer rep would be able to take her to task for that with more "Hand" then the 600~ posts complaining about Steam here.
     
  5. Thyrwyn

    Thyrwyn Guardian at the Gate

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    Link to her statement?
     
  6. PieceOfMind

    PieceOfMind Drill IV Defender Retired Moderator

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    When I pick up my telephone and call a hotline of some company that provides a service to me, so I can fix a problem or change my personal details or some other simple request, I am often on the receiving end of an annoying (though usually short) marketing spiele. In these cases I view it as a conflict of interest. Heck with some companies, while you have to hold the line for 10 or so minutes, you have to listen to heaps of marketing speak praising the company.

    I have not seen any major problem with the info 2K Elizabeth has been providing us. As I said, we have to expect at this point that much of the info is marketing. There's nothing wrong with that. In general though I think it can be frustrating to a customer when a person they are speaking with is "customer service" while marketing at the same time. Of course, it's no reason to call for their head! It just has the potential to be a bit annoying or frustrating. It doesn't necessarily have to be either, and that is where I think evret is jumping the gun on passing judgement. That said, he is asking that this be sorted out before it becomes a problem, which is a more reasonable way of putting it.

    The question in my mind is, are civfanatics happy to have a marketing representative posting in the forums? I'd expect that the majority do. Some however will look at marketing in a public forum as not being selfless but rather advancing the company's bottom line.
     
  7. Sub

    Sub in omnia paratus

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    I can understand the Steam hate, but this is ridiculous.
     
  8. evrett37

    evrett37 Prince

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    I read these as someone went in front for the Firaxis people and suggested the Iraqis would greet the American army as liberators..I'd like to see the data. Because the data would likely show less than stellar support for Steam, she's not going to share it because it would be bad for the marketing. So now the line is "Steam was the fans idea" and "its for the benefit of the community" which is the first of possibly many dishonest marketing lines.

    Lets send her back and get an rep that will deal in truth and not advertisements.
     
  9. PieceOfMind

    PieceOfMind Drill IV Defender Retired Moderator

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    evrett37, what I wonder is if much of that feedback came from facebook and/or twitter? Have you checked those places?
     
  10. civ_king

    civ_king Deus Caritas Est

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    *facepalm* this place has turned into a lynch mob
     
  11. Chalks

    Chalks The blue pieces

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    evrett37, I'd be interested to know what makes you feel so entitled that you can address 2k representatives this way.

    I see through your façade to the underlying disagreement that you're trying to silence. She supports Steam so you want her gone. Wake up and smell reality - every modern game uses online activation DRM and Steam is one of the better options.

    You don't get to just keep kicking out 2k reps until you find one that tells you what you want to hear.

    /not signed.
     
  12. PieceOfMind

    PieceOfMind Drill IV Defender Retired Moderator

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    Chalks, I think you've got the wrong thread. Did you read his posts?

    By talking about online activation you're actually going off topic for once.
     
  13. Chalks

    Chalks The blue pieces

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    Really?

    You seem to have missed the point at which he dropped the façade.

    It's yet another Steam thread. Just took him a while to admit it.
     
  14. Shurdus

    Shurdus Am I Napoleon?

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    The ones who are opposed just come in here and scream murder, but it is highly unlikely that the consensus is that steam is bad. You cannot rule how dishonest those lines are unless you know what the 2K people know. Do you know what they know? Care to share?
     
  15. PieceOfMind

    PieceOfMind Drill IV Defender Retired Moderator

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    Chalks, don't do that to me. I can see through your attempts to divert the attention away from the real issue this thread is trying to address. Where did he mention online activation? Yes, he's against he inclusion of Steam but his actual argument in this thread is against the role being played out by 2K Elizabeth.

    All you did in those quoted posts was highlight the word Steam. That makes me wonder whether you even read my post.
     
  16. Rebel44

    Rebel44 Warlord

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    /NOT SIGNED

    To OP: Go to hell!!!
     
  17. RedRalph

    RedRalph Deity

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    Well, you could say 'closed' too, and I'd advise you to do so... this is getting ridiculous
     
  18. Chalks

    Chalks The blue pieces

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    No - you're wrong.

    His opening post says (paraphrasing) "2k Elizabeth should be kicked out because she's a liar and a marketing stooge" and when he is pressed on what particular things she has said that he considers unacceptable, what does he say?

    His problem is the fact that 2k Elizabeth has defended the choice to use the Steamworks platform.

    If this isn't the case, where are his complaint about anything else she's talked about? He attacks her for being a marketing person but the only actions he criticises are those relating to Steam.

    I challenge the OP to convince me that if 2k Elizabeth had not defended the Steam platform that he would still have complained about her.

    This is just another anti-Steam thread, but this time trying to persecute the representative who's attempting to explain why you shouldn't be worried about it.
     
  19. Zhahz

    Zhahz PC Gamer

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    /not signed

    Firaxis is weak with distributing info, so it's not like it matters in any way.

    Dunno what reality you're talking about - two completely ridiculous and unfounded statements pulled out of...where?

    If you like Steam that's great but it's kinda unlikely you represent the entire gaming industry or Firaxis/2K to make such statements.
     
  20. PieceOfMind

    PieceOfMind Drill IV Defender Retired Moderator

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    evret made the accusation that 2K Elizabeth was not being completely honest about the data collected. For whatever reason, she hasn't produced any data showing the fans were asking for the things she says they were. This is his beef with her.

    You are just trying to make it sound like evret doesn't like Steam so that it's just another anti-Steam thread. It's true he doesn't like Steam, and it might even be his motivation for starting the thread, but it's not what is being discussed in the thread.

    He noted that she chose to defend the platform by claiming it's what the fans wanted. He doesn't believe her and wants to know if that's true or not (whether the fans really did want steam). He believes there is an inherent conflict of interest in having a customer service rep be also a marketing rep. Whether anyone agrees with that or not is up to them, but that's the position evret has taken.

    And even if you were correct that this is an anti-Steam thread, your sudden bringing up the online activation issue in particular still confused me. As in "where did that come from?"
     
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