PH17: pholkhero and the Holy Grail

Hmm, interesting, devious plan, nocho. I'll see if that's possible. Oh, and I think that I should be able to play next, as per the swap. I'll aim for tomorrow or early Monday.

With the cash we got from the trades, can we run 100% science for awhile, rather than 70%? Guess I'll check, see how far we'd get with either. We're in quite the tricky situation, yeah? At least this map lacks Monty.
 
I tried running 100 but we were close to finishing rifles, so there was no reduction in turns when i last tried it.

Sounds like a devious plan. :goodjob: I could not get a concensus on whether to sell RP or not. It was Thanksgiving after all, maybe i should have waited a couple days before playing. :smoke:

At immortal level, i assumed it would be a short time before one of them stole RP. I may have muffed it here, since RP could have been a really good bribe for KK to DoW on Izzy. QSH is probably more compliant since he appears to have beelined to democracy, and may need other techs.

Whether HC gets rifles or not, i think the deciding factor in terms of military advantage will not be cossacks or rifles, but cannons. Trebs & cats just dont cut it once gunpowder is in the picture, especially with mounted gunpowder units. As i said earlier, we can use Bohr to bulb most of chemistry, then tech as fast as possible to steel. If you've watched TMIT's youtube video on the lonely hearts game he plays, you can see him tearing up Churchill's redcoats with cannons, cossacks, and rifles. Once chem is in, we should workshop some select tiles to bolster hammer production.
 
I like nocho's plan; nothing to lose anyway. I don't think spain will send oto much at us and we can get some experience. On the whole, i also think we may risk outright war with HC once we get canons going. If we can take Tiwanaku and Cuzco reasonably quickly, maybe raze that tiny city he has, i think we could get peace with QSH w/minimal loss ~ perhaps with a bribe.

ROSTER
pholkhero >> on deck
nocho
mc red
Whosit >> UP NOW and has it
talamane >> just played
 
Whosit the Learner

Inherited Turn 320, 1500 AD

A review of the cities.

It all looks OK, but we are in a weak position since our eastern cities are just being CRUSHED by Capac's culture. Bad, bad situation there.

Rifles could be had in 2 turns rather than 3 by pushing up the slider, but probably no reason to burn through 200 gold just to save an extra turn.

While Khan is willing to attack Isabella, we have nothing good enough to offer him just yet.

-End Turn-

Turn 321, 1505 AD

Novgorod: Trebuchet < Trebuchet
Rostov: Longbowman < Longbowman

Begin work on another Workshop for Scythian. I'll do the whole whip-longbow-into-Globe plan to see how that works out.

I move our Spy into Spanish territory.

I 4-pop whip the Hindu Mandir in St. Petersburg. Might as well, right?

-End Turn-

Turn 322, 1510 AD

Our Spy is promptly captured. Argh!

St. Petersburg celebrates the brilliance of their king.

St. Petersburg: Hindu Mandir < Taoist Temple

Whip the Longbowman in Scythian. If I'm reading that correctly, nearly 50 overflow hammers.

Nothing else to report just yet.

I cancel our Furs for Marble deal with China, and instead trade Furs for 7 gpt. We don't really need the Marble anymore, but we could always trade for it again in the future.

-End Turn-

Turn 323, 1515 AD

I am proud to report that we have learned Rifling. Slot in Chemistry. We capture an enemy (probably Incan) spy near St. Pete.
PH17Rifling.jpg


I order Mr. Bohr to make progress on Chemistry and he shaves 5 turns off, leaving 3 left. I turn the Slider up to 100% to get it in 2 turns (and to maximize overflow).
PH17Bulbing.jpg


Novgorod: Trebuchet < Rifleman
Yekaterinburg: Barracks < Forge

Argh, the Longbowman in Scythia upgraded into a Rifleman instead of finishing. I whip it again! Only 15 overflow now. *Sigh* But a Rifleman, at least.

Now that we have Rifling, might as well try and start that war with Izzy. And just as nocho said, Khan is indeed willing to wage war for Gunpowder. I take it! Isn't it fun when we're not the pariahs in a game?

PH17WarwithSpain-1.jpg


PH17Khanhelps.jpg


All of our Macemen should be upgraded to City Raider so that we can promote them to Riflemen. After Chemistry, I'll run some 0% science in order to pay for upgrades, yes?

-End Turn-

Turn 324, 1520 AD

Khan wants to cancel our Ivory deal. We can either get Silks or a bunch of money. I'm going to take the money because I don't think we're at the happy caps just yet. If I'm wrong, I'll figure something out.

Yup, we still have happy room. Capac is at about tech Parity with us. He has Cuirassiers about.

Globe Theatre is going to be a pain to finish. Maybe I'll let the city grow back and slow build it a bit. No cheap Longbows to whip anymore.

-End Turn-

Turn 325, 1525 AD

Surprise and astoundment! Isabella has (re)taken Toledo from Khan! And she earned a Great General. Wasn't expecting that!
PH17Spanishwarsuccess.jpg


We have learned the secrets of Chemistry, and our alchemists begin to discard their old ways as the true science gains traction.

Set science to 0%. I upgrade 3 CRII Macemen to Riflemen. A shame that we have no CRIII Macemen. Perhaps a couple more turns of this, then science again.

*Slap Forehead* We have a Great General just sitting in Novgorod, and it has been building units this whole time?! There was no sign, good thing I noticed it. I settle the guy immediately! We want 5 XP units coming out of our Heroic Epic city! I also hire an Engineer in Novgorod. Meant to do that a couple of turns ago. These two specialists cut 9 turns off of Steel at 0%. Ha ha. Though if I can get a workshop or two up, that would be more hammers.

I reorganize some cities a bit, nothing too major. Let's get more Riflemen!

Argh, Capac is farming over a Town that used to belong to St. Pete! A Town! And he can't even use that farm! The bastard!

-End Turn-

Turn 326, 1530 AD

Just moving troops. No more upgrades after this turn.

-End Turn-

Turn 327, 1535 AD

Capac just teched steel . . . and an Incan revolt takes place in Vilcamba. Not very good. We can get Steel in 12 turns at a sustainable rate.

Novgorod: Rifleman < Rifleman

I'm going to take a break here. Well, probably stop here. I was hoping to get 10 turns in, but, well. We can wait 12 turns, or we can attack now. If we attack now, we can do some damage before Capac gets too many Cannons. We can move our Army onto the hill NE of St. Pete, then attack Tiwanaku with our mounted units the next turn. We would want to raze it, I think, unless we are very certain that we could hold it.

We have 4 CR II Riflemen, and 12 Cuirassiers to our name. We barely have an siege units, just 4 Trebs. Oh, and 2 Workers on Capacs borders, right next to some nasty units. Maybe wake them and wait a turn? It's a tricky situation.

Note that Capac still lacks Rifling, so the best defensive units he has will still be Longbowmen or Musketmen. We can view Tiwanaku from that hill, so if the defenses are too heavy for 12 Cuirassiers, we can move our whole stack there and delay the attack by a turn. Maybe suicide the Trebs? Or would it be better to bombard the defenses? City Raider Riflemen will do well on the attack and should be able to hold back Cuirassiers, probably.

St. Pete will be light on defense, but it's a risk we may have to take. Prioritize hammers in Scythian, it can work antoher Workshop or two soon. It might be better to slow build the Globe now that we can't really whip units into it easily.

Also, sorry I skimped out on my usual narrative style. No time at the moment. Um, but I guess I still have to kill myself off? Um . . . Whosit the Learner . . . died . . . by messing around with his Royal Chemistry set and it exploded! :p
 

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alrightey, nice turns, abandoned style or not :goodjob:

HC is an if-y venture to begin with, but cuir.s get a bonus against canon right? that is, they can use their flanking on them, iirc. perhaps we should get started now, and count on our cuir's to do initial damage instead of our trebs? idk...seems to be a nasty position/proposition for us and it's not getting any prettier....hmmm...will fire it up and take a look myself

also, there WAS a GG sign there, but i always assumed the GG'ing was done. course, i never took the sign down anyway, but just goes to show how good assuming is ~

i have it, and will take the full 48 to play/report.

ROSTER
pholkhero >> UP NOW and has it
nocho >> on deck
mc red
Whosit >> just played
talamane
 
Good job, whosit. :goodjob:

We should be able to upgrade our curs to cavalry now that we have rifling, no?

We need to make a lot of cannons, obviously.
 
Good job, whosit. :goodjob:

We should be able to upgrade our curs to cavalry now that we have rifling, no?

We need to make a lot of cannons, obviously.

We can't do either right now. We need a source of Horses to upgrade the Cuirassiers, actually. It's risky, but I think we should go for Capac ASAP, since, as Pholk mentioned, the odds will only worsen as he breaks away with a tech lead. Cossacks would have made this much, much easier, though.

We should also get China to attack Capac immediately. If we can bribe him into war before we declare ourselves, let's do that! I forgot to check. Maybe we can gift him Gunpowder and bribe him with Rifling? If we let them go at it for a few turns, most of Capac's troops should head east, right?
 
I havent experienced this before (no horses trying to upgrade mounted units). Grrrr. That's stupid. I see them, they have four legs and go whinny. :cry:
 
Haven't seen the save yet, but I'd say we declare immediately. Then get China into it, that way it will definitely be cheaper than asking China to be the first to declare. Well, check first if the option of Qin declaring on HC at least is available... Anyway, as others have said, the longer we wait the tougher a nut HC will be to crack. We don't want to face rifles on a hill with high cultural defence. And the sooner we declare the sooner we can forget about those culture buildings in St Pete. :p
 
Okay, so I *think* i may have lucked our way into a winning position.

I started off by not waiting for anything, and declaring my first turn. Huayna?
Image01.jpg


Things proceeded apace. I moved most our army NE towards Tiwanaku, and decided to gamble and send the 4-Cuir's to that lake town, Victos. That gamble paid off:
Image02.jpg


And Tiwanaku as well, I decided that the RNGod was with me. I threw caution to the wind and sent the trebs in w/o any prior bombardmnent; i didn't want to give them time to reinforce it at all! Trebs all went down, but with our CR rifles leading the way:
Image03.jpg


And then:
Image04.jpg


Idk...i like that event, even though it's lame. It's nostalgic. Meanwhile, I remember to call up QSH.
Image05.jpg


Next thing i know
Image06.jpg


Nice! Didn't have to give away anything!

Meanwhile, we bet some bad luck. Cuzco is well-defended, and we have no more siege.
Image07.jpg


And, while i'm at it, I see what HC'll give us to let him alone:
Image08.jpg


I get a message that Izzy capitulated to KK, and an enemy Cuirassier took out our traveling trebuchet. Suddenly, i'm struck by a crazy plan that's so brillant, I just may work. or vice versa.

Next, I got this hot event, which just confirmed that I had the powers on my side:
Image09.jpg


The result of my plan:
Image11.jpg


Image12.jpg

Seems I found the soft underbelly of HC. That or he's really afraid of china. Either war, right??

Taking out Vilcas felt good. Razing three of his cities on my set is proud accomplishment. We have some canons on the way east, and I say continue the battle.

Steel is in, obviously, then, and we have a GG sitting with a Medic 1 'phant ~ Med 3?? Would definitely help in the upcoming fight..

ROSTER
pholkhero >> just played
nocho >> UP NOW
mc red >> on deck
Whosit
talamane
 

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Well, well, well! Some very nice results! Fortune favors the bold, indeed. Three cities down, including a major core city! A slight shame Tiwanaku had to burn, but we could probably have never held it. St. Pete is still swamped by Incan culture, for crying out loud!

A bit unfortunate that Izzy capitulated. Now we have no one else to sic Khan on!

Anyway, I guess we should target and burn Capac's most lightly defended cities until we can produce enough cannon to take down the walls of Cuzco? Oh, and a Medic 3 elephant would be nice.

So, yeah, again, astounding set. I love to see crazy moves like this get pulled off. All hail King Pholkhero the Bold!
 
Nice work! Especially like HC's power rating of 1.6! :devil: I think we should somehow be able to take his remaining 3 cities.

Will look at the save later today and comment a bit.

Oh, and got it.
 
Had a look at the save. We could get horses from KK for a ridicluous price. Rice+33gpt, or rice+sheep+fish (we don't have spare sheep or fish). Still I'd take it for as long as the war with HC lasts (or until we get our horse tile back) and then cancel asap. With horse we can upgrade our cuirassiers.

Kudos for finding capac's soft underbelly (I wonder what you were exactly looking for :mischief::lol:), though it worries me slightly we lost sight of Cuzco and are far away from it, marching-wise. Maybe Qin will now roll quickly over HC or worse, he might cap him. So I'm wondering if we should talk Qin into peace with HC so we can keep all the booty to ourselves. Maybe not immediately, but still maybe soonish, say in 5 turns or so.

Also do we want to change civics? Unfortunately every change is 1 turn of anarchy. Under the circumstances nationhood+merc+theo doesn't look bad, but it's a full 3 turns of anarchy which right now we can't afford. Maybe just trust upon killing off HC with current civics and then reconsider? Or given that the globe is 2 turns away just the single switch to nationhood. Globe of course is also useful for cossack/cannon whipping. Which also reminds me, we might be better off farming over all those villages near Scythian.
 
Played. The news I got to tell is not all bad. :D

Start with taking the horse deal with KK. Move all cuirs back to our territory for upgrade. The rifle stack advances meanwhile.
Civ4PH17501.jpg


Not much later we scratch HC's underbelly a bit more. Keep it.
Civ4PH17502.jpg


Take this deal with Qin. All the techs we give away were known by all others already.
Civ4PH17503.jpg


We proceed to HC's capital and major cultural offender and we take it. I actually took it twice, a brief power outage forced me to reload. :rolleyes:
Civ4PH17504.jpg


A nice prize to take, with a nice shrine and other goodies.
Civ4PH17505.jpg


Not much later we take his northern stronghold, which we also keep.
Civ4PH17506.jpg


HC's remaining city was just founded and very well protected by 4 workers! :mischief::lol: It auto-razed, and HC is no more.
Civ4PH17507.jpg


Here we have the tech situation. We'll need demo probably, as especially Moscow is suffering emancipation unhappiness. Before the war ended there was also a lot of peacenik unhappiness, to counter that I've been whipping a bit... Nothing to make your people happier than converting them into cossacks.
Civ4PH17508.jpg


Now on our future, as can be seen in the screenshot where HC defends his last city with the workers, Cuzco is suffering Qin's culture already. We'll have to see what happens when it comes out of revolt, but I don't want it to flip to the Chinese!! So we might have to take measures against Qin... :hammer::hammer::hammer:

And who is there to help you out? Our trusted backstabber KK! What do you think of Qin, buddy?
Civ4PH17509.jpg


I like him, but for sure I'm willing to fight him! Of course we shouldn't take this deal, but we may want to prepare for war with Qin and have KK join. As always, declare first, then ask the other guy to join, that's way cheaper. But again, also depends on how Cuzco's culture will perform when it gets out of revolt.
Civ4PH17510.jpg


Finally, I got two settlers out to fill up some spaces. I send the first to HC's final city spot, the other one more south. They can still settle this turn, but we may want to discuss exact locations.
Civ4PH17512.jpg

Civ4PH17511.jpg


And last thing I did was cancel the horse deal with KK. Thanks, bro!
 

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Very, very nice. That bastid finally got what was coming to him! I trust that our Cossacks performed well? I'm also very happy to see that St. Pete isn't drowning in Incan culture any more!

I think that we definitely want to use the former Incan territory to shore up our sorry economy. Um, oh, and the Gold Settler can probably set up shop where he is. Let's not forget to mine the gold. The lower one is a filler spot for sure, but there's not much better out there.

I can't remember what else I was going to say . . . but I'll say "good job, nocho!" again!
 
nocho -> :king:

:worship::worship::worship:

:band:

Looks like we are on our way! (To winning!)

Looks like emancipation is getting ugly (-4 happy).

A to-do list for mc-red:

Hook up dyes near Moscow. When did that happen?
Second winery for trade. Could have sworn that was done too. Maybe not. Map's changed a lot.
Grab that oil with a settler ASAP.
Emancipation i suppose.

Comments?
 
Some good turnsets :)
Unfortunately, I need to ask for a skip as I am overwhelmed by RL at the minute.

Sorry for any inconvenience. :blush:
 
Some good turnsets :)
Unfortunately, I need to ask for a skip as I am overwhelmed by RL at the minute.

Sorry for any inconvenience. :blush:

My fondest hope is that it is a good kind of overwhelm. :cool:

Whosit, I suppose you are up.
 
Bleh, gimme a couple of days. I'm behind as is in at least one other game.
 
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