[GS] Phoenicia Uniques Predictions

[PhoenicianGold]

LUAs dont have unique districts so it's a pretty safe bet that Eleanor won't.

But how do you sell the hell out of a contentious choice for a first dual leader?

 

[Ziad]

But how do you sell the hell out of a contentious choice for a first dual leader?

Give her early rock bands in Troubadours lol

 

[PhoenicianGold]

Give her early rock bands in Troubadours lol

Sign me the fudge up.

 

[UWHabs]

To me it feels so obvious that the Cothon will replace the Harbor, that given the only thing holding us back from declaring that as the obvious thing is that we haven't seen them have 2 unique versions of a district yet. However, they do have multiple unique copies of the same building, so I don't see why not allow another Harbor replacement.

My guess? It will replace the Harbor, yet must be built inland, not on the coast. Not sure what other bonuses it will give (probably increased sea trade, maybe increased ship production, maybe available earlier as well). I could see it potentially also act like an encampment, as a "defensible district", if they want to give them another fun bonus too. If they really want to give them crazy bonuses, then the Cothon will replace the Canal, build on land on a coast, and Phoenecia will not be allowed to build Encampments OR Harbors. Basically, they get one district that they're allowed to build, but get screwed out of the other ones.
I still go back and forth whether it makes sense to also have them with some sort of "may only found cities on the coast" bonus. On the one hand that would be another neat handicap, and would definitely satisfy when they claimed in the Maori livestream that there was another civ with a really interesting first 10 turns functionality, but on the other hand, part of me also feels like that might be absolute hell on the map creation algorithms - like, if they started inland, would they literally have to wander the land until they find the coast, kind of like a reverse-Maori?

 

[Ziad]

I wonder if Dido will introduce herself as "haMalkat Qart Hadasht" (Queen of Carthage) or "haMalkat haKan'anim" (Queen of the Phoenicians).

Maybe even "haMalkat Tsur" (Queen of Tyre).

 

[Zaarin]

I wonder if Dido will introduce herself as "haMalkat Qart Hadasht" (Queen of Carthage) or "haMalkat haKan'anim" (Queen of the Phoenicians).

I'm still holding out hope her capital is Ṣūr, making "haMilkot Ṣūrīm" a possibility. "HaMilkot Kanaʿanīm" would be more general, though...

 

[Ziad]

I'm still holding out hope her capital is Ṣūr, making "haMilkot Ṣūrīm" a possibility. "HaMilkot Kanaʿanīm" would be more general, though...

Haha didn't catch my edit


Also I love how you use the actual phonology

 

[Ziad]

On the one hand that would be another neat handicap, and would definitely satisfy when they claimed in the Maori livestream that there was another civ with a really interesting first 10 turns functionality, but on the other hand, part of me also feels like that might be absolute hell on the map creation algorithms - like, if they started inland, would they literally have to wander the land until they find the coast, kind of like a reverse-Maori?

I'll take it if it means they start with Sailing and Shipbuilding as they should

"Dido's Voyage"

 

[PhoenicianGold]

To me it feels so obvious that the Cothon will replace the Harbor, that given the only thing holding us back from declaring that as the obvious thing is that we haven't seen them have 2 unique versions of a district yet. However, they do have multiple unique copies of the same building, so I don't see why not allow another Harbor replacement.

My guess? It will replace the Harbor, yet must be built inland, not on the coast. Not sure what other bonuses it will give (probably increased sea trade, maybe increased ship production, maybe available earlier as well). I could see it potentially also act like an encampment, as a "defensible district", if they want to give them another fun bonus too. If they really want to give them crazy bonuses, then the Cothon will replace the Canal, build on land on a coast, and Phoenecia will not be allowed to build Encampments OR Harbors. Basically, they get one district that they're allowed to build, but get screwed out of the other ones.
I still go back and forth whether it makes sense to also have them with some sort of "may only found cities on the coast" bonus. On the one hand that would be another neat handicap, and would definitely satisfy when they claimed in the Maori livestream that there was another civ with a really interesting first 10 turns functionality, but on the other hand, part of me also feels like that might be absolute hell on the map creation algorithms - like, if they started inland, would they literally have to wander the land until they find the coast, kind of like a reverse-Maori?

I mean that's the easy answer we all want.

BUT, what happens to an inland harbor when another civ conquers your city? Does it just disappear? The first district to poof on conversion?

 

[Zaarin]

Also I love how you use the actual phonology

I'm a language nerd.

BUT, what happens to an inland harbor when another civ conquers your city? Does it just disappear? The first district to poof on conversion?

Isn't that what happens to Holy Sites if Kongo captures a city? I wouldn't rule it out as a possibility.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

Isn't that what happens to Holy Sites if Kongo captures a city? I wouldn't rule it out as a possibility.

Ew. Gross. Never again.

But you may be right.

 

[UWHabs]

I'm a language nerd.


Isn't that what happens to Holy Sites if Kongo captures a city? I wouldn't rule it out as a possibility.

That's why they may try to trick us by having it as a Canal replacement, since at least then, for any other civ it could just turn into a regular canal. Or perhaps it just goes poof if someone else captures it, although on the flipside, what would happen to a Harbor that you captured from someone else? Would that also go poof, or simply end up as a water-based Cothon? It's not like theatres or Seowons disappear, and they are allowed to be on non-hill tiles if Greece/Korea capture them from someone else.

 

[Ziad]

By the way I just loaded the vanilla game (without mods) to get ready for GS and noticed that unmodded Harbor unlocks in Celestial Navigation not Shipbuilding . It had been a while since I played vanilla so woops. Do I feel embarrassed or what...

Perhaps Phoenicia may start with the Celestial Navigation tech then if Cothon is indeed a harbor replacement.

 

[bbbt]

I mean they could do something like make the cotton a unique canal district that also replaces the harbor district. Could give some significant initial bonuses (like a trade route) and allow ship building, but maybe the downside is no buildings. Can be built on the coast or inland. Etc

 

[Ziad]

I am genuinely confused why people are adamant about it being a Canal replacement. Cothons are still largely coastal. They were literally harbors. They do not connect two bodies of water.

It's almost as if people insist on it being a Canal just for the sake of completeness even if it makes little sense and even if the "no duplicate replacements" has already happened with Temples.

 

[ferretbacon]

I am genuinely confused why people are adamant about it being a Canal replacement. Cothons are still largely coastal. They were literally harbors. They do not connect two bodies of water.

It's almost as if people insist on it being a Canal just for the sake of completeness even if it makes little sense and even if the "no duplicate replacements" has already happened with Temples.

I agree. Plus, with the possibility of a third expansion, there's going to have to eventually be districts with more than one unique replacement. May as well start with the Harbor having both the Royal Navy Dockyard and the Cothon.

 

[Tomice]

What we didn't consider yet:
A unique harbor that can be placed either normally OR inland like a canal.

Due to its limit of 1 per city, it would not completely replace proper canals that unlock later, and it would not be too similar to Chinas earlier canals.
But it would be very helpful to allow early sea access in more of your cities. It would also allow for better adjacencies due to added flexibility.

The only problem: What would happen if a Phoenician city with a Cothon gets conquered? Sure, it could tranform into a normal canal, but what about the buildings?

 

[Lord Lakely]

Perhaps Phoenicia starts with a portion of the map (such as nearby coastlines) already explored?

You really have to look at the niches each civ presents to determine which angle the Civ will take

Hungary: City States, Rivers/Geothermal, large armies (quantity)
Maori: wide expansion, environment
Canada: National Parks, Emergencies, Tundra
Inca: Growth, production, mountains, domestic trade
Mali: desert, economy, faith
Sweden: Great people, Great works, Theming
Ottomans: Governors, Conquest, Raiding

That leaves, for Eleanor and Dido the following niches:
- culture yields (from sources other than Great Works)
- religion
- industry
- science
- martime/navy
- diplomacy (other means of generating favour or envoys)
- terrain bias: coast
- tile improvements: lumber mill, plantation
Gimmicks: unique resource, no UUs, unique Civilian unit

I am pretty sure Eleanor will either be culture or industry focused (synergy with English/French CUAs), or possibly diplomatic or religious. Depends on what Phoenicia gets.

We know that Phoenicia will have a maritime focus because of the Cothon, which makes sense historically. The lack of a science Civ suggests that Phoenicia gets a boost somehow (whoever said that they get free Eureka's from trade: I think you're right.), which again is historically accurate. Religion makes no sense, as does culture. Other than that, who knows. I'd love a fun mechanic towards buying other civs UUs or settling on coast or land grabbing (look up Carthage's founding myth if you haven't already). Maybe their plantations give an additional copy of the improved lux? The potential is there, fingers crossed Ed & C° nailed it.

 

[blackcatatonic]

There are so many great ideas in this thread that I fear I will only end up disappointed by what gets revealed on Tuesday!

I voted for the Cothon as a unique city centre, though that's more what I want than what I expect: I think it's likely to be a canal or harbour replacement. But a unique city centre that also acts as a harbour would be very cool. It would also require that they only be allowed to settle on coast, so I voted for that too. Unique Trireme not quite a given, but very likely, as is something (science or favour, I would guess) from trade routes.

Tyrian purple as a unique luxury wasn't in the poll but I really hope at least some reference is made to it.

 

[AvianBritish]

This is my prediction for Dido and Phoenicia:

Dido leader ability:
Founder of Carthage - Receive a free Quinquereme when you settle your first city adjacent to coast. Cities built on the coast do not exert or receive loyalty pressure from foreign cities.

Phoenicia civilization ability:
Phoenician Alphabet - For each of your first five cities you settle you receive a unique luxury resource (Tyran Purple, Cedar Wood, Glassware, Bronze, Jewellery). You receive +1 of each luxury resource for each speciality district you build in that city. All resources and features provide +1 science each. Cannot build Campus districts.

Phoenicia unique infrastructure:
Cothon - A replacement for the Harbour that can either be built on coast adjacent to land or on land adjacent to coast. Acts as a canal and a land tile. Receives a standard adjacency bonus for all adjacent districts and resources. Receives a major adjacency bonus for adjacent city centre. +3 Housing.

Phoenicia unique unit:
Quinquereme - A unique replacement for the Galley. 30 melee strength. Can settle city on adjacent land tile once per unit. To train a Quinquereme, a city must have a population of at least 2. When you train a Quinquereme in a city it loses a population.

This allows for Phoenicia to build strong coastal cities that don't have to be close together. If they get 5 cities they get 5 unique luxury resources and can trade away duplicates once they build more districts in those cities. Their cities are focused around the Cothon which gets more gold for each adjacent district and then also provides housing to help the coastal waters housing issue. Also because the "Cothon" was never used in the more modern era when canals are more important, we could theorise that they might of ended up being used as canals too. Like the Janissary, the Quinquereme uses up a population to build but for good reason as it settles a city! If you settle your first city on the coast early on you will also get a free Quinquereme to settle your second city just as quick too. This civ can also be very very sciencey if you have lots of bonus, luxury or strategic resources or features near by to provide science. This is balanced by the fact that they cannot build campuses - so if you have 6 resources near by you will already better a 6-adjacency campus and you don't even have to build the district.