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Pick Your Leader Challenge 1

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Dune Wars' started by davidlallen, Dec 14, 2009.

  1. negyvenketto

    negyvenketto Scientist

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    The problem is not with the Tech Diffusion mod. (I disabled it in my game, because it was an AW OCC no tech trading variant.)
    I did some test, but didn't researched Academies just bulbed with 2 GS so it can be done very quickly. I found Qizarate FIDL only if BT revolted to Zensufism before bulbed Academies! With or without TD mod!
    I hope this helps you and stop questioning RevDCM people :mischief:
     
  2. davidlallen

    davidlallen Deity

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    My experiment clearly showed that I got the right result with TD off, and the wrong result with TD on, following the same steps each time. But perhaps TD only makes the problem "more likely". I will look further.

    But, I am not quite able to understand your quoted sentence. What is "FIDL"? BT should revolt to Zensufism extremely early since they found it on turn 1. Are you saying that you get the correct result if you get Academies before BT converts, and you get the wrong result if you get Academies after BT converts?
     
  3. AnotherPacifist

    AnotherPacifist Deity

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    I can also confirm that it's not TechDiffusion. I started a game as BG, gave myself a great priest and bulbed faith. And the surprising thing is that NOBODY founded Shai-Hulud. Then I gave myself plenty of great priests and the prereq techs for Jihad, Great Houses, Feudalism and Academies. The only religion founded was Imperialism.
    Now note that this is the first turn of a screwed up game so I was the only person with any city, but in any case, all these religions should have been founded in my capital by right.

    What's even stranger is that is that if I allow 1 turn to pass before bulbing all my GP, I found Mahdi and Shai-Hulud, but Landsraad, Quizarate are founded elsewhere, and Imperial is not founded at all! I know why I can't found Landsraad, but Quizarate and Imperial are not off-limits to BG, and in any case, it should be the case that if I research Great Houses first, nobody should be allowed to found Landsraad.

    FIDL--founded in distant lands.
     
  4. davidlallen

    davidlallen Deity

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    Stranger and stranger. I am struggling with an infinite loop bug which affects every nine player game of 1.7.0.6 between turn 360-400. I just cannot figure it out.

    If you can do some experiments to help me track down this founding problem, it would be helpful. Does it happen in a standard 1.7? Does it happen in a standard 1.6.5?

    When I get completely frustrated by the infinite loop problem (which will be soon!) I will see if I can figure out this founding problem.
     
  5. AnotherPacifist

    AnotherPacifist Deity

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    1.6.5 is fine but 1.7 is when the religions started behaving strangely (just did a reinstall and same thing happened when I played BG). Interestingly, the religions that I should have founded went somewhere else (Shai-Hulud, Mahdi and Imperial were FIDL in a counterclockwise direction) while I got Quizarate. Does not seem to matter if TechDiffusion is turned off or not, in fact I got some crashes with TD turned off.
     
  6. davidlallen

    davidlallen Deity

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    Thanks for the suggestion of speeding up the test using GP bulbing. I reproduced the problem and found the real cause. In vanilla, and in 1.6.x, when the tech to found a religion is researched, there is a loop which picks among members of the *same team* to found the religion. In 1.7, this code was merged with some other changes, presumably a new RevDCM, and the test for *same team* was commented out. So it is picking among any civ to found the religion.

    I have no idea why tech diffusion makes this worse, but it is unrelated to that. I put back the test for same team and now there is no funny founding behavior. Thank you all for your patience in helping me track down the real problem. I will put this into 1.7.1.

    Now back to my infinite loop bug. Sigh. If I cannot solve it, I cannot release 1.7.1.
     
  7. negyvenketto

    negyvenketto Scientist

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    I was playing as BT (standard 1.7), Zensufism was founded on turn 1 but I did't get a pop up to convert, sometimes I forgot to do it immediately.
    Yes, I know it's strange but still I experienced Quizarate founded somewhere else when I bulbed Academies only if I converted to Zensufism before.
    Since not every civ can found every religion, you must changed the code somewhere that affects what happens if a tech researched for the first time. I think that code should be checked.
     
  8. negyvenketto

    negyvenketto Scientist

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    Oh, late post, forget it. It took too much time to think about my answer :rolleyes:
     
  9. Ahriman

    Ahriman Tyrant

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    Great that you're tracking down some of the religion issues.

    On gholas, I would emphasize that whatever method we go with, it needs to feel like a handful of very specific gholas. There is a big risk of making it feel like a clone army, which is out of flavor.

    Tleilaxu aren't mass-producing gholas, and they aren't producing mulitple copies at the same time of a given ghola. They might be producing successive copies of an excellent leader/tactician (like Idaho), and having them command a unit.
    Also remember that we're trying to model the timeframe of House prequels->Dune->Children of Dune.
    Not the God Emperor period.
    So it takes tremendous effort to even get a ghola to remember their past (Idaho in Dune Messiah was the first).

    So I would argue for an immortality type mechanic, but which only applied to a handful of units (maybe 1 per Axolotl tank building constructed). They aren't ressurecting the entire regiment, they're just getting a new ghola of the commander, and they are only doing it for a few units at a time.

    (I'm not "back" yet, I'm gone for another 10 days, just briefly checking in).
     

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