[R&F] Pillage and Fix for Rise and Fall

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Lily_Lancer, Dec 21, 2017.

  1. Lily_Lancer

    Lily_Lancer Deity

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    In Civ5 there's a traditional pillage-and-fix strategy, you pillage enemy tiles and fix it with builders, then pillage again. You yield 10~20 Gold for every pillage-and-fix group per turn, which is quite a reasonable gold resource

    In Civ6 the pillage yield is very high, 50 science/100 gold per tile or so. But you can only pillage once since you cannot fix enemy tile, nor can you pillage your own improvement.

    But Rise and Fall solve that problem. Your border cities will flip to independent every 5 turns or so in Dark Age, you just pillage the tile, take the free city, then fix the pillaged tiles until the city becomes independent again. That yields 200 Science per 6~7 turns per group, suppose there's 4 mines to pillage, with the double pillage card. Which is a vast amount in early eras. Also, such operation can be done with multiple groups. So you get lots of gold, science, culture and faith from multiple pillage-and-fix cities.

    All you need is a builder, some troops, and a border city with low loyalty. You may want to make that city as disloyal as possible to speed up the pillage-and-fix process, which means a Dark Age is needed. That's really another nice bonus for Dark Age, ensuring it a better option than golden or heroic ages.

    I don't know why, but the expansion seems to tell us "Dark Age is the best age."

    Consider controlling your era point less(without affecting your other progress such as science and culture speed) is more difficult than getting more era points, this may be reasonable?
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2017
    steveg700, juanpavo and Arent11 like this.
  2. God of Kings

    God of Kings Ruler of all heads of state

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    That would need to be addressed.
     
  3. Cyberian

    Cyberian Warlord

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    Does not sound very reliable and maybe dangerous.
    Especially on the higher diffs you might try that out and realize that some other Civ steals that city away and keeps loyalty.
     
  4. Arent11

    Arent11 King

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    I still don't exactly know whether I can conquer the same city with Alexander & get Eurekas/Civics multiple times. I always wanted to test that but never came around to that. Now, with the city flipping it might be even easier.
     
  5. juanpavo

    juanpavo Warlord

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    As always, new features create new exploits. I probably wouldn't make this the centerpiece of my strategy, but if I happen to have a flippy city, I could see myself doing this. Nice analysis.
     
  6. SammyKhalifa

    SammyKhalifa Deity

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    Yuck. I hope they plug that if true. "Strategy."
     
  7. pgm123

    pgm123 Emperor

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    I'm not even sure how they can fix it. They'd either have to nerf pillaging, which I wouldn't like--I like that you can have war without conquest. Or they'll have to make it so cities aren't that likely to flip, which defeats the entire point.

    That said, I'm not sure if normal players will play this way. You get warmonger penalties for reconquering cities that went independent (though not for peacefully reacquiring them). Also, it means leaving AI cities close to your borders.

    Side note: I wonder if you can raze your city if it went independent.

    Side side note: do unique improvements remain if a city flips independent or are they destroyed?
     
  8. steveg700

    steveg700 Deity

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    Well, a lot of this is a product of how easy it is to repair pillaged tiles. Doesn't even cost a builder charge. Maybe address that.

    Or, just limit how often a given tile can be pillaged. Essentially, a cooldown period (or a warm-up, if you will).
     
  9. Trengilly

    Trengilly Warlord

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    I'd like to see capturing a city cause more damage. Improvements should all get pillaged when a city is captured. And any improvements that were already pillaged when you take a city should be removed. Bingo - eliminates the flip and pillage exploit, puts a real slowdown on warfare, and frankly is more realistic.
     
  10. kryat

    kryat King

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    This is a huge part of the problem. Districts and their buildings are extremely difficult to repair while tile improvements are not. Maybe repairing should take half a builder charge, so it feels more like a production investment.

    On that note, I think half charges should be more prevalent in general. Roads built by military engineers should also only consume 0.5 charges.
     
  11. Hakan-i Cihan

    Hakan-i Cihan Emperor

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    A builder with 0.5 charge left will then be displayed either as a half builder or a semi-transparent builder. :mischief:
     
  12. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

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    Hmm, make it so that you can't receive gains from pillaging the same tile within x turns? Or damaging the city every time it flips automatically.
     
  13. steveg700

    steveg700 Deity

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    It's not necessarily realistic. Not every conquest is scorched earth. And I think it's pretty detrimental to gameplay.

    Like I said, either the effort to build and repair needs to involve greater investment from a civ, or the tile needs a cooldown before pillaging provides a yield.

    Personally, I think you should have to reinvest to repair.
     

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