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pineappledan's Chola for VP

pineappledan

Deity
Joined
Aug 9, 2017
Messages
10,523
Location
Alberta, Canada
CholaIconBlue.png

Chola - Led by Rajendra I
Download Here
Rajendra.png

UA: Vira-Valanjiyar
Completing an International :trade: Trade Route places an Ainuruvar Guild in the target City. +1:c5gold:Gold in all Cities for each Guild. +1 :trade:Trade Route Slot for every 4 owned Cities and every Vassal.

Thirisadai.png

UU1: Marakkalam
Cannot be produced
Given for free whenever a GAdmiral is born
Upgrades into Ironclad
:c5strength:CS scales with era (see below)​
4 :c5moves:MP​
Can enter Deep Ocean at Astronomy​
Preeminence: -15% :c5strength:Combat Strength to enemy units within 2 tiles​
Bonus vs Cities (33%)​
Spoiler Marakkalam CS :

CS overview:
16 :c5strength: in ancient/classical (+2 from Trireme)
31 :c5strength: in medieval (+6 from Caravel)
46 :c5strength: in Renaissance (+6 from Corvette)
61 :c5strength: in Industrial (+1 from Ironclad)

Thivai.png

Thirvai (Customs House Replacement)
Available at Guilds
350 :c5production: Production Cost
+2 :c5culture: Culture, :c5science:Science, and :c5production:Production​
15% of your :c5gold:Tax revenue from Vassals is converted to :c5production:Production in this City​
Every Trade Route from this City to a foreign City with an Ainuruvar Guild increases this City's :c5science:Science and :c5culture:Culture rate by +5%​
Completing any :trade: Trade Route To or From this city generates 25:c5capital:Great Admiral Points, scaling with Era​
when a :trade: Trade Route originating here and targeting another Civ is completed, receive a :tourism: Tourism boost with the civ based on your recent :c5culture: Culture output​
1 :c5gold: Merchant Specialist Slot​
Tobacco Resources gain +3:c5gold:
Coffee Resources gain +1:c5gold: +2:c5production:
Tea Resources gain +2:c5gold: +1:c5production:
Banana Resources gain +2:c5gold:
Spoiler 3rd and 4th Unique Components :

Kallarani.png

UU2 Taniyar (Caravel replacement)
available at Compass
160 :c5production:production
28 :c5strength:CS (+3 from Caravel)​
Infiltrator​
:c5production:Cost of the unit reduced by 5 in all coastal cities for each unique Trading partner on empire.​
KovilKulam.png

UI - Kovil Kulam
Unlocked at Philosophy
Must be built on flat grassland, plains, or tundra, with no access to fresh water, and not adjacent to another Kovil Kulam
Removes features
1 :c5faith:Faith / 1 :c5culture: Culture / 2 :c5gold:Gold / 2:c5food: Food​
Kovil Kulam gains +1:c5gold: for each adjacent Farm (ie. Farms boost KKs, not KKs boosting Farms)​
Acts as a source of fresh water (ie unlocks baths in adjacent cities, freshwater boost to farms, etc.)​
+2 :c5food:Food at Guilds​
+1 :c5gold:Gold / :c5faith:Faith/ :c5culture: Culture at Navigation​
+2 :c5gold:Gold /:c5food:Food at Fertilizer​

Credits
  • pineappledan - leaderscene, DOM, sql, text, lua, leader and civ icons
  • HungryForFood - DLL integration of TR per city/Vassal code
  • InkAxis - Trade UI additions
  • Firaxis - Leader model
  • Pouakai - Map
  • Janboruta - Marakkalam icon
  • Sukritact - Taniyar and Thirvai icons
  • Leugi - Graphics and unit flags for the Marakkalam and Taniyar unit models, Kovil Kulam model and icons
  • Viregel - Spy list
  • Whoward - Plot Iterator
  • Sounds of Isha - Peace and War Themes
 
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Looking forward to feedback on this design. A lot of numbers that I am unsure if they are fair, or good, because I didn't get the opportunity to play a real game with it.
  • What is a good number for the free :trade:Trade Slot per X Cities? I set it to 5 for now, but maybe 4 or 6 would be better?
  • I am wondering if the :c5gold: gold in all cities from the Pekkandru gets out of hand or scales too much, and how quickly? It's basically a Gold Franchise at 1/4 power that you get from the start of the game, and with no franshise limit. So I'm interested to see how people play around with it, and what might need adjusting about it?
  • Is the Kallarani 5 starting :c5production:production for each unique trade partner too much? What is a fair amount per trade partner, in a full game?
  • How does the Vassal Tax ==> :c5production:production in all cities converter feel? How much do people get from that in general, from each vassal?
  • What about the 5%:c5science::c5culture: for a TR to a pekkandru? Is that enough of a reward to feel balanced against the opportunity cost of gaining another +1:c5gold: in all cities from a new TR destination?
  • How does the Thirisidai's power feel in a real game? There's some situations where that era's melee boat unlock is on the 2nd tier tech, but the Thirisidai is already +8:c5strength:CS over it a full tech line early, albeit with some movement limitations. Does that feel fitting for a unit that you only get on GAdmiral birth, or does 1 of these on the field just end the game?
  • And lastly, is the Kovil Kulam any good? What do people think about that?
 
This is basically Carthage. Same UA, same naval melee focus, same bonus gold but later instead of earlier. With maybe slightly more military focus. Thirvai science and culture bonus makes it too similar to Centaurus Extractors. In general everything sounds repetetive in gamestyle to what many coastal civs already have. I think removing trade routes and giving something more to Pekkandru along with more vassal interaction would be far more fun if less powerful. VP has plenty coastal peaceful economic civs, why not make Chola first full maritime warmongering?

I will do a photojournal as they look cool and are solid both in strength and design but it's sad they lack unique mechanisms like the ones Scotland, Israel, or Sumer have. I strongly think they should be called Tamil. Tamil was the nation of this country, nobody knows any Chola and it was just dynasty name, so it is like calling Austria the Habsburg or England Tudor.
 
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Tamil was the nation of this country, nobody knows any Chola and it was just dynasty name, so it is like calling Austria the Habsburg or England Tudor

The mention of Austria is particularly impressive, given that the Austrian identity, separate from German, became popular only after the Second World War. At the same time, with your approach, it is also necessary to eliminate mainly German-speaking Swiss and Dutch. Dutch is a banal dialect of Low German, for example.
At the same time, Tamils in reality represent a rather diverse company even only in Sri Lanka, and Chola, Chera and Pandya represented quite stable countries for at least 1.5 thousand years. Obviously, also because they were founded by DIFFERENT Tamil tribes. Mentioned already in the Mahabharata.
 
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How does the Vassal Tax ==> :c5production:production in all cities converter feel? How much do people get from that in general, from each vassal?
I'm not sure about the rest but to me vassal taxes have always been pathetic. Like, + 5 GPT at max level. Maybe sometimes if you get a really strong vassal it can work, but generally you need to completely destroy a civ to get them as a vassal, and so the gold they have is very little. I was actually thinking of reworking the vassal tax system because of this.
But on the other hand some of the other traits of the building seem pretty strong, so the fact that this is not that strong might be fine. Depends on whether you want to lean more into trade or more into vassals.
 
This is basically Carthage. Same UA, same naval melee focus, same bonus gold but later instead of earlier.
That’s funny, I actually think they share more similarities with Portugal. The focus on GAdmirals and the same late medieval power spike.

Carthage’s super-early focus and UNW make it very different, IMO. The only similarities are that Carthage also gets an extra trade slot, albeit just 1, where chola’s scale. And extra gold from international TRs, but via a very different method.
Thirvai science and culture bonus makes it too similar to Centaurus Extractors. In general everything sounds repetetive in gamestyle to what many coastal civs already have. I think removing trade routes and giving something more to Pekkandru along with more vassal interaction would be far more fun if less powerful
Centaurus is 10%:c5science: and armeier is 10%:c5culture:, so thirvai is half of each. The kit needed some reward for trading with a city you’ve already traded with before, like what corporations already do.
I’m already worried the Pekkandrus will get out of hand, so adding more to them sounds risky.
VP has plenty coastal peaceful economic civs, why not make Chola first full maritime warmongering?
With the big reward for expansion and the focus on GAdmirals, I feel they already are the most overt warmonger maritime civ.
I strongly think they should be called Tamil. Tamil was the nation of this country, nobody knows any Chola and it was just dynasty name, so it is like calling Austria the Habsburg or England Tudor.
or like calling the Turks the Ottomans?
But on the other hand some of the other traits of the building seem pretty strong, so the fact that this is not that strong might be fine. Depends on whether you want to lean more into trade or more into vassals.
It mostly exists to buffer the need to take every city from a civ before vassalizong them. The kit needed something as a fig leaf to assuage the players’ need to maximize their trade slots. If you leave a vassal a little more intact, you can levy higher taxes from them, and thus get more global production. But, as I said, I have never paid much attention to tax yields, so I don’t know what a good level for the converter is.
 
Hello Pineappledan,

Very nice mod as usual, with a special mention for the music, really superb (design too).
I am currently working with Hinin on the Cajun refurbishment and our idea was to make a unit that progresses through the ages (not a plagiarism of your Thirisadai but a circumstance contest) and I tried the SQL table Unit_EraCombatStrength, with no success.
So, I tested your mod and it doesn't seem to work either (only tested the passage of eras with Ingame Editor). Is there something to activate that I forgot?
 
Very nice mod as usual, with a special mention for the music, really superb (design too).
I am currently working with Hinin on the Cajun refurbishment and our idea was to make a unit that progresses through the ages (not a plagiarism of your Thirisadai but a contingency contest) and I tried the SQL table Unit_EraCombatStrength, with no success.
So, I tested your mod and it doesn't seem to work either (only tested the passage of eras with Ingame Editor). Is there something to activate that I forgot?
oh dear!

I didn't bother to test that this time, because I used that code in an earlier draft of the Philippines civ, for the Balangay. It worked when I tried it there, but that was 2 years ago. I'll have to get back to you.

EDIT: There is an extra step to get the Unit_EraCombatStrength to work: you need to set UnitEraUpgrade = 1 in the Units Table. So there is an extra column in the Unit info that you need to add that flags the unit
 
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EDIT: There is an extra step to get the Unit_EraCombatStrength to work: you need to set UnitEraUpgrade = 1 in the Units Table. So there is an extra column in the Unit info that you need to add that flags the unit
Thank you Pinappledan, you are the best :thumbsup:.
 
V2 uploaded.

Thirisadai CS has been changed to 16/31/46/61 (-2 at all levels), and the scaling now works.
 
By the way, the 4UC components for this civ are activated by default for this civ, currently.

If you want to play with just the Thirvai and Thirisidai:
  • The Kovil Kulam can be deactivated by deleting lines 84-153
  • The Kallarani can be deactivated by deleting lines 496-498
 
v3 posted.
changed pekkandru to "Ainuruvar Guild"
Added notification when Trade Guild planted
 
Hello, really interesting civ ability. I wonder is there a way to tell if the target city already has an Ainuruvar Guild like with coporations?
 
I'm contemplating a few ways I could make them visible, but they won't appear in the Trade UI like the franchises do. I will try to put something underneath the city to mark it that would be exposed to the UI

Edit: I tried placing a feature and an improvement beneath the city that would mark it as having an Ainuruvar guild, but neither were exposed to the UI when I hovered over them with the mouse. No dice!
 
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Could having an icon placed underneath cities that have an Ainuruvar guild similar to a spy icon work?
 
New version
Code:
 - UA buffed to 1 TR per 4 cities
 - Leaderscene now works
 - Kallarani obsolete at Industrialization, like a normal UU
 - Trade UI now shows a gold trade symbol on cities with an Ainuruvar guild
My own experience with the Chola so far has been that the UA doesn't have enough oomph to get you into the mid-game. Aztecs mopped the floor with me in my test game. In another test game, I found that 5 starting cities was a big ask if anything whatsoever went wrong in the early game. If an AI spawns somewhat close to you and expands in your direction first, you're done. 4 cities is a regular "core", and should be a lot less vulnerable to these problems.
upload_2022-1-5_11-30-43.png

UI change courtesy of @InkAxis, credits updated to reflect this.
UI change might not (currently) compatible with Infixo's Trade UI mod or @adan_eslavo's Trade Opportunities Overview. I don't forsee any conflict, since neither mod edits the trade route selection screen, to my knowledge, but this hasn't been tested. If so, compatibility could be added in the future.
 
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I want some opinions on the Kallarani, because the 1 feedback I have gotten so far is that they are lackluster.

The main problem that was pointed out was that, as caravel replacements, the naval meta isnt strong enough in that era for Kallarani to be really formidable conquest units. The Galleass often can't even reach an enemy civ you want to harass, so Kallarani have to do the job alone, or they can find some other focus. Currently, the Thirisadai is the main city assault and main hitter for the Chola, that leaves Kallarani as a sort of utility/efficiency pick, since I don't want it competing with another melee naval UU just on brute force numbers. Currently it has the following bonuses:
  • -5:c5production:production cost for each foreign trade partner
  • +50% XP from combat
The Kallarani were privateers in the employ of South Indian guilds, recruited from all over south and southeast asia. Here are some alternative bonuses that I was thinking of that could fit with that theme:
  • Infiltrator promotion (+25% outside friendly lands, +25% vs wounded, -15% per adjacent unit)
  • converts 1/2 of :c5gold:gold pillaged from :trade:TRs to :c5culture:culture
  • some sort of bonus on :c5trade:Blockade
Any thoughts?
 
I would remove quick study for infiltrators, and add then some incentive to declare war on civilizations who have boats and isolated embarked units in the water. A culture+gold reward for attacking (or sinking if not possible) naval units.

Perhaps instead of the production bonus, it could be a full XP on gold buy + move on buy + cheaper for each trade partner.
 
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As reported on Discord, I am experiencing an issue where I can't initiate trade routes when this civ is present in my mod list.

I first saw this happen when I was playing as Israel. So I decided to test it out. I started a game with the Chola deleted from the mod folder, delete cache and start a game as Israel. Beeline for Trade and try and initiate a trade route. This worked. Then I added the Chola back, cleared my cache and started another game with the exact same settings. Again I beelined for Trade and tried to initiate a trade route. No dice. As you can see in the screenshots below, I cannot Establish a Trade Route, despite Mogadishu being in range.
Spoiler Screenshots :

upload_2022-1-7_19-46-33.png

upload_2022-1-7_19-46-48.png


Here's my mod list:
upload_2022-1-7_19-48-16.png


 
As reported on Discord, I am experiencing an issue where I can't initiate trade routes when this civ is present in my mod list.

I first saw this happen when I was playing as Israel. So I decided to test it out. I started a game with the Chola deleted from the mod folder, delete cache and start a game as Israel. Beeline for Trade and try and initiate a trade route. This worked. Then I added the Chola back, cleared my cache and started another game with the exact same settings. Again I beelined for Trade and tried to initiate a trade route. No dice. As you can see in the screenshots below, I cannot Establish a Trade Route, despite Mogadishu being in range.
Spoiler Screenshots :
@InkAxis
 
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