Placing a Great Person on a poor tile?

[silentknight111]

Personally, +5 science sounds pretty good. Taking into account that the general source of science is on aper citizen basis, and I believe it's 2 per. Adding 5 per turn is like having a city with 2.5 more people in it.

 

[SeismoGraf]

you can't really use it as a prospecting tool because if there was no resource then it would settle the scientist.

Ignoring the itchy reload finger. Technically speaking, reloading 500 times to prospect half the map can't even be considered cheating.

 

[Grunthex]

No more cheating that popping open the tweaker utility to see where the resources are. If you only LOOK it's not really cheating, right?

 

[craig123]

But remember that the tile has to be worked. So you kind of have to look at the opportunity cost.

What is the yield for example of a hill with mine? or a jungle with university (+2 science)...

Therefor its not even +5 science (which as u said is worst than +50% science) but rather +3 (even +2) science.

On the one hand u can look at it as converting the yields from production/commerce to pure science.

That's a fair point, though I'd imagine you would work the tile with a (former) science specialist. So the net gain would be +3 science.

Do we know the number of beakers each tech costs compared to civ4. In the live demo didn't Greg say that writing was 50 beakers? What was it in civ4?

 

[cccv]

You will be very unlucky if you place one of them on an undiscovered strategic resource

I've been thinking about that ever since it was announced that GPs could build tile improvements. I was hoping when I learned more about it that I'd find some kind of measure was in place to prevent that. Oh well, I guess if I discover uranium under my academy it'll be a "screw it, time to open worldbuilder" moment.

 

[SeismoGraf]

The simplest fix is to have GP buildings harvest any resources under them.

Ok, then I would place my Academy on cattle and watch the scholars complain, when it's time to milk the cows. The only practical difference compared to putting the GS directly into the city, would be pillaging, assuming the cattle tile will always be worked.

 

[homan1983]

Personally, +5 science sounds pretty good. Taking into account that the general source of science is on aper citizen basis, and I believe it's 2 per. Adding 5 per turn is like having a city with 2.5 more people in it.

Actually its 1.5 more citizen if you redo your math. Also note social policies/wonders increase the output of the scientists and reduce the food consumption.

 

[silentknight111]

Actually its 1.5 more citizen if you redo your math. Also note social policies/wonders increase the output of the scientists and reduce the food consumption.

whoops..
I'm an artist.. that's my excuse.

 

[homan1983]

I'm curious if the numbers are the same for all great people... so great artists like u will give +5 culture and great engineer would give +5 production etc.?

 

[nishant1911]

civ4
bulbing gives only certain amount of beakers
settling gives 1ham and 6beak

civ5
-bulbing gives entire tech no matter the beakers
-building improvement gives 5beak that require a citizen to work.
-procleain tower (or whatever the name is) gives 2 extra beakers to every specialist. this suggests that beak value of a citizen will be around 2 (or slightly more)

and bulbing was already quite powerful in civ4
i think the 'no-brainer' is loud and clear.

 

[treadwin]

It may be that grassland is "safe" from these later resources. I'm not a geologist but I would have thought that it was unlikely that Oil/aluminum/Uranium/Coal would be found on good farming land.

 

[homan1983]

Where do u get the information that in civ5 bulbing will give the tech regardless of beakers?

procleain tower (or whatever the name is) gives 2 extra beakers to every specialist. this suggests that beak value of a citizen will be around 2 (or slightly more)

That would be very concerning considering the social policy:
"Secularism: +2 Science from each specialist."

Hence you have 2+2+2 = 6 per specialist. Which also gives GP points. And with -1 food cost they each take 1food to maintain.

 

[King Jason]

But remember that the tile has to be worked. So you kind of have to look at the opportunity cost.

What is the yield for example of a hill with mine? or a jungle with university (+2 science)...

Therefor its not even +5 science (which as u said is worst than +50% science) but rather +3 (even +2) science.

On the one hand u can look at it as converting the yields from production/commerce to pure science.

You'd simply designate a city to be your science city in which case any and all academies constructed would be place on it's tiles. So the yields are naturally supposed to emphasize science over other resources.

Why people are making the assumption that you'd switch from a science specialist to an academy is beyond me... You'd run both in a specialized science city. Also, I'm pretty sure the beaker-per-pop is 1:1... So an academy is the equivalent of 5 population. Even if it is 2, making it the equivalent of 2.5... A citizen working a tile nets 2 sciences + X other yeilds. A Citizen working an academy nets 7 science... still a substantial increase in terms of science.

plus, that science can be modified by the buildings in the cities. So... 5 is a big amount. Especially when we consider that values for all resources across the board seem to be smaller in general. A 5 in a particular category could be equavalent to a 9, in Civ4 terms.

Where do u get the information that in civ5 bulbing will give the tech regardless of beakers

I don't have the source but we've known for a bit that bulbing simply gives the player a technology, not beakers.

 

[12agnar0k]

Yep, it's an improvement, so it would wipe out whatever is already there. What I was mainly looking for was a tile that I had build a farm on that wasn't adjacent to a river.

This is exactly right, while you could build it over a farm, doing so would lose you +2 to +4 (depending on what tech your on) food from that tile, that tile's food income could have been vital to sustaining your cities population, however if you wish you can place the great improvement on a tile thats already improved, that is something tactical for you to decide, it doesn't remove the original tile yields, so a grassland will still give +2 food, meaning a +2 food and +5 science tile, personally I would choose to build the improvement here rather than say on a 0 production desert tile, but thats just my tactical decision, as the tile will grant food for population (more science) and more science directly. The one place I wouldn't recommend building them is where an improvement is needed, say on a horse tile. Where you need a pasture, but other than that, your free to place them as you like (actually you can place it on the horse tile if you don't want the horse resource ), and you get all the basic tile yield bonuses as well as +5 Science (or +5 gold or +5 culture or +100% defense and deal 3 damage to adjacent enemies) from your new improvement.

 

[homan1983]

I think your problem is you're looking at a eutopian situation where you have enough people for everything - in which case then yes, all options will be taken.

Thats like saying a £1million lamborghini is good value for money if you're a multi-billionaire because you can have a lamborghini and a BMW and both are good.

What we're considering is most scenarios where you have to choose between putting a worker as a scientist or a worker on a tile. And in this respect comparing the value added by using a great scientist to make the improvement, rather than using him to start a golden age or to bulb a technology.

As for the beaker-per-pop, it is in fact 1:1 but that doesnt mean 5 beakers is worth 5 population, simply because the 5 populations' only job ISN'T to make those 5 science but who will also become either specialists or work tiles.

 

[Churchdown Yank]

You'd simply designate a city to be your science city in which case any and all academies constructed would be place on it's tiles. ...

You're assuming you can build more than one academy in a city

 

[homan1983]

That sounds like a reasonable assumption considering civ5 academies are simply tile improvements.

 

[King Jason]

As for the beaker-per-pop, it is in fact 1:1 but that doesnt mean 5 beakers is worth 5 population, simply because the 5 populations' only job ISN'T to make those 5 science but who will also become either specialists or work tiles.

Obviously I meant it's worth 5 pop in terms of science. Which is huge no matter how you slice it. So your tile could be producing 4 food with a farm instead of 2 with an academy. You're sacrificing the producivity of a yield a single pop (that's already granting you 1 raw science) could net you, in order to attain the equivalent of 5 population's worth of raw science.

That's huge.

You're assuming you can build more than one academy in a city

No I'm not. I've seen a screenshot where this is the case. At the very least they were in the boundaries of a single city. But I can't imagine why the city wouldn't be able to work both of them. Academies essentially fill the role of settling a specialist, ala civ4.

 

[homan1983]

You can't look at things like that.

You can say that the improvement is giving 2 science bonus and trading 3 other yields for 3 science. Then I'd guess you would be right (although it could be 3/2 on lower yield tiles) but if you see it this way then you'd find that the bonus just isn't that enticing... 2 free science and trading 3 others for 3 science? for a great scientist?

 

[Ahriman]

Ok, then I would place my Academy on cattle

Why would you do that? The cattle resource lets you build a superior improvement - the pasture.
If you have two tiles, one with cattle, it would make much more sense to build a GP improvement and a pasture than it would to make a regular improvement and a GP improvement.

If you put the GP resource on it, you're wasting your ability to get a superior improvement. There is no incentive to do that.

I'm curious if the numbers are the same for all great people... so great artists like u will give +5 culture and great engineer would give +5 production etc.

No. The great artist improvement for example I think gives 4 culture and 2 science?