Planetfall

[Maniac]

Do you mind if take a shot at create new action buttons? I think of a SMAC-style symbol set, here is a small sample attached, showing my first ideas for delete, sentry, go-to, go-to (all). The white background is obviously transparent, so in-game you would only have the symbol itself plus thin frame. I have these four as dds already, if you want to do something with it.

Thanks! The dds would be appreciated!

Are you interested in making more buttons for Planetfall btw?

One idea that has been bandied around in the "Fury Road" mod is to take a page from "Fall From Heaven" and that units would automatically start to upgrade as certain techs become available. So instead of bronze, iron, mithril upgrades, the upgrades represent body armor, better ammo and maybe better training. Now this would work well with units that basically stay the same, just get newer weapons & armor but basically stay the same like infantry for example.

The unit system (and tech tree) is a bit in flux since patch 3.17 and the removal of the unit workshop, so I haven't fully made up my mind yet. The advantage of such a system is you don't need to constantly press the upgrade button. It's an option, but it depends on whether or not I find enough ideas for 'total concept unit's.

First off, when it comes to unit classes, I believe that you should take a idea from Fall from Heaven (sorry, I know you probably get sick of hearing that) and have a Recon class so those units can be more specialized to their mission.

There is the Hypnotic Trance promotion, which gives +25% defense against psi, and prevents bad results from unity pods. Put that on a fast moving unit and you've got yourself a good explorer. You could consider rovers, choppers and hovertanks the Recon class of Planetfall.

Plus, have you considered making the Ancient Monoliths like the explorable lairs from Fall from Heaven/Fall Further? They could spawn nasty things, give experience (like the SMAC monoliths did) or give techs.

Unity Pods can do all that too. I don't see what lairs add except even more spell button clicking.
Now I have been thinking about having different kinds of goodie huts which give different results, but then it would stay with the implementation you'd just have to move a unit into the plot. No extra button clicking needed.

Now I sort of question why you'd have 'straight leg' recon units at all. I mean while I realize they didn't land with much, but realistically humans on foot do NOT walk half the distance a vehicle can travel in a span of time.

I kind of assume that all infantry units have their own personnel carriers for transport. It's just better for graphical variation reasons to show them without the vehicle. (Which they wouldn't be using in rough terrain or building-to-building city combat anyway I guess?)

However, I think there should be more restrictions on vehicular movement.

Armor can't move into Fungus. I'm thinking to do the same for Artillery/Mass Driver. Those units not having a defensive bonus is kinda Civ's representation of them sucking in rough terrain.

* Snipers: Another idea from the Fall From Heaven mod is instead of having assassins, you could have sniper units. These would be units that can bypass the normal defenses and attack the weakest unit in a stack. Again scout/LRRP units might have the choice of upgrading to these or Probe teams.

I indeed plan to include the bTargetWeakestUnit promotion. I'd make it available to submarines, mind worms, psi units and perhaps indeed some sniper upgrade for probe teams.

Either that or make a anti-tank promotion available in place of the "+ vs. cav" that is available in vanilla BTS.

That one already exists.

* MBT: Tanks, Panzers, main battle tanks, we all love them. However, realistically they are having a bit of a hard time since they are expensive and there are so many different ways to kill them now that is cheaper.

Yeah, I don't plan to include a long line of heavy tank units in Planetfall. Artillery is in though. I guess you could do some decent destruction with mass drivers.

So the minute some sort of contra-grav system is developed, I think you'd rapidly transition from lots of light units to fewer big, armored behemoths.

Depends. You could either argue that the machinery which allows antigrav is huge, and therefore you can only make big antigrav units. On the other side you could argue that for some scientific fluff reason which doesn't need to be elaborated, the energy required for antigrav increases exponentionally to the mass you intend to levitate. Therefore for cost-efficiency reasons you only see light & small antigrav units in the game. So we can do whatever we want.

* Mobile Infantry

Thinking the same. They should definitely be in though.

* Mecha: Personally I think mechs are cool...but a stupid military unit.

I agree. But the reason why I included the Walker was to make Mind/Machine Interface a more attractive tech. That kinda trumps all other considerations.

Some excuses I came up to make them more believable though:

Firstly, they're not huge. They just carry one person.
Secondly, you could argue that because the unit has more or less the basic form of a human (two arms and legs that is), it is much easier to control it through a neural interlink, like you say. Its battle advantage is its much faster reflexes over other mechanized units.

Btw, wouldn't battle ogres have the same disadvantages as Walkers? (Just shoot their legs) Walkers can be considered a precursor technology to those.

A thought I just had: you could assume Ogres (and big Walkers) always have a powerful defensive energy shield. So you'd first have to overload that shield before you could hit the unit at all. Thus reducing the liability of its form.

Air Units - Biggest complaint I have about air units, especially back in old SMAC, is that they are to powerful.

Not the case in Planetfall I think. Certaonly with the unit workshop removed and there not being upgrades for the current basic air units yet.

Needlejets: Big question I have about these units is whether to use promotions or different units to represent the 2 basic missions of planes: ground attack and air to air combat. I mean there is a big difference between a A-10 Thunderbolt and a F-15 Eagle.

I would be inclined to just make them one unit. I mean, the only reason in Civ to make fighters is because the other guy is making them too. Not exactly exciting strategy.

Speaking of SMAC flavor, will we ever see any of the SMAC: Alien Crossfire factions? The human ones, I mean, I'd think that the aliens might be a bit of work.

The Angels and Pirates will be added after I figure out how to create a new civilization mid-game.

 

[Lord Tirian]

Thanks! The dds would be appreciated!

Are you interested in making more buttons for Planetfall btw?

Well, test the attached icons first. It contains buttons for most actions, important missing action buttons are: sleep, fortify, degroup, and go to (similar units).

If these guys work for you, I'll gladly finish the last missing ones (I'm not so happy with my current versions, and I'm not very happy with the build route-to button as well), then make new buttons, if you want to.

Cheers, LT.

 

[arkham4269]

Btw, wouldn't battle ogres have the same disadvantages as Walkers? (Just shoot their legs) Walkers can be considered a precursor technology to those.

A thought I just had: you could assume Ogres (and big Walkers) always have a powerful defensive energy shield. So you'd first have to overload that shield before you could hit the unit at all. Thus reducing the liability of its form.

The Angels and Pirates will be added after I figure out how to create a new civilization mid-game.

Sorry, when I meant an Ogre, I wasn't talking about the Ogres you see in SMAC but the original Ogres from Steve Jackson games

In fact you can tell SMAC stole the name from them because they call it a Ogre Mk 3 (Mk 3 and Mk 5 Ogres being the most common in the game)

As for the mecha, I've always felt they had to have a mind/machine interface to be useful, 57 controls be damned! (Sorry, Robotech trivia joke ) Anyway, I could see mecha being more useful if they were more like over-sized powered armor. Sort of like the Kryptonian super suits in the John Bryne's reboot of Superman where the operator is encased in a embryonic fluid in the chest cavity and is hooked up to the sensors so in a sense the mecha is his body. They were about 20-30 feet tall.

Of course in the rationale of size of reactor, one might get mecha first and then as then later get the true Heinlein Mobile Infantry later. Jumping 30 yards at a time, capable of lifting cars and firing mini-nukes of their back seems pretty impressive too me! That and their smaller size and ability to be orbitally inserted would make them a real terror later in the game.

As for late game races, should the Pirates be a starter race? (I love this race) I'd see the Cult and the AI race coming in later. I guess the Datajackers would also have to come later since you'd need the infrastructure to get them.

I would also think that if you ever merge the Revolution mod into this, you could have any city that rebels join the Drones.

 

[Maniac]

Well, test the attached icons first.

Hmm, there kinda seems to be little contrast between the button and the background. What do you think?

Where the hell can you change the rebase and airstrike buttons btw?

As for late game races, should the Pirates be a starter race?

I hope they will eventually be playable through advanced start.

 

[Lord Tirian]

Hmm, there kinda seems to be little contrast between the button and the background. What do you think?

Agreed, the symbols need to be brighter, I sort of missed that after working on the chequered transparent backgrounds.

I reckon I will make the icons a bit brighter to give them more contrast. Or perhaps use no gradient and 3D effect but instead "flat" symbols like SMAC itself, I'll have to experiment a bit.

However, what do you think of the symbols? If they're okay, I just tweak how they appear... if not, back to the drawing board!

Cheers, LT.

 

[GeoModder]

Just my opinion, but the ones concerning rebasing and founding bases are too similar. Especially for new buttons I feel they should be quite distinct.

The air patrol one is good: the eye and the SMAC air power symbol, but might be more appropriate for the reckon command. The "found a base" is also quite good, if it was a bit more colored.
For air patrol I think the "air power tech" button might be perfect: the airbase and the plane above it so to speak.
Air bombarding is a bit more tricky. Perhaps a stylised explosion on the bottom, with the airpower triangle above it? And the triangle on an angle as if it is diving?
That leaves airstrike. Two triangles opposed to eachother? Nah, too bland...

 

[Maniac]

I tried some already existing buttons. See attachments.

Doc:Mob was used for AutoExplore. Aerospace Complex for rebase, and Doc:AP for Recon.

The Aerospace Complex is a reminder that the corner of a button need to be cut off, and that the icon can't use all the available space, or it will clash with that automatic square-without-corners put on top of it.

For some reason the Doc:Mob icon background seems less black than that of the air buttons. Not sure if that's just my wrong impression. Elsewhere (civilopedia, F6) the background seems just as black as all other icons.

In any case, of the three icons tested, the Doc:Mob one seems to like best to me. So perhaps that background should be imitated, at least if I'm not imagining things. Is it possible the Doc:Mob button is only half-transparent? Something similar seems to be going on with the vanilla Sleep and Intercept button backgrounds.

Some other remarks:

Blue and brown probably are bad choices for buttons on a blue background.

I think flat icons look horrible. If possible, I think a gradient/3D effect similar to the Biogenetics tech button would be best.

Err, more tomorrow.

 

[Maniac]

Patch v6b is available. This patch needs to be installed on top of the version 6 main file.
It will break savegames from earlier patches.
Please post save games of any persistent crashes you may encounter.

Changelog:

1. Reworked tech tree. Instead of making a long changelog, let me just say "see the F6 screen".
2. No Flowering Counter restriction anymore before barbarian native life can move inside borders.
3. Fungus/Forest only starts changing to Hybrid Forest with the Pholus Mutagen tech.
4. Cityset graphics progress by GeoModder and woodelf.
5. Sea bases start with a Pressure Dome for free.

 

[Liambane]

Nice MOD!!!

Love to play this mod!Thx a lot for keep SMAC alive!

Probably you still know this "bug" but some menu entries text are missing.
Nice work.

 

[soggy_amphibian]

Been watching this thread for a while, and finally had some time available to (download, install, and) play the thing.
It looks gorgeous. The fungus in particular catches the eye.
I like what you've done adapting the Civ4 gameplay into the SMAC world. I've enjoyed discovering the religions.

I've not played lots. I've played some of a single-player game, and some of anetwork game with my wife.
I played as University both times (like the good ol' days) and my wife played as the Believers, we were both in Team 1 and positioned close to each other (ah, how cute). In the joint game we were both on Settler level. I had a scout unit, colony pod and... you know, I can't remember what it was called. Material supply crawler or something. She started with all those things, and a second material thingy. She could move both material units, but one seemed to be useless. The other one eventually got upgraded into a Former, I think the other remained useless, I'm not sure what she did with it in the end. She theorised that there was supposed to be one, and so the second one was useless just because its presence was a glitch in the first place.
I'm not sure how much of a bug it really is, and I'm sure you got bigger stuff to concentrate on, but thought I'd mention it in case it helps.

Thinking about the Alien Crossfire factions, there's been discussion in this thread about starting some of them later in the game, as in the established storyline. I would suggest that that's not so important. Look at regular Civ4, America can be played from the stone-age rather than only from the 18th century. Perhaps some story can be overlooked for the sake of gameplay?

Thanks for all the work you've done on this mod, I like it lots and look forward to seeing it develop further.

 

[woodelf]

Welcome to the CFC soggy. Glad you like the mod. Head over to the subforum and see if you have any ideas, comments, or questions for existing threads or start one yourself.

 

[Maniac]

I've not played lots. I've played some of a single-player game, and some of anetwork game with my wife.
I played as University both times (like the good ol' days) and my wife played as the Believers, we were both in Team 1 and positioned close to each other (ah, how cute). In the joint game we were both on Settler level. I had a scout unit, colony pod and... you know, I can't remember what it was called. Material supply crawler or something. She started with all those things, and a second material thingy. She could move both material units, but one seemed to be useless. The other one eventually got upgraded into a Former, I think the other remained useless, I'm not sure what she did with it in the end. She theorised that there was supposed to be one, and so the second one was useless just because its presence was a glitch in the first place.
I'm not sure how much of a bug it really is, and I'm sure you got bigger stuff to concentrate on, but thought I'd mention it in case it helps.

I'm afraid I don't know what could have been going on. I have in any case never encountered it. Not knowing the exact name of the unit makes it even harded to figure out the matter.

There are two units which use the same graphic right now: the Unity Supplies and the Material Supplies. The Unity Supplies can be upgraded to various units. That's the one you start the game with. Then there is the Material Supplies. That one can be gotten from unity pods. It can be used to hurry building production for 60 minerals, or settled into a Citizen specialist. Is it possible your wife founded her headquarters, there was a unity pod in range which was automatically popped and gave a Material Supplies? Regardless the unit being useless, perhaps she didn't think of moving it into a base??

 

[soggy_amphibian]

Thanks, Woodelf, hadn't spotted that. Interesting stuff.

Thanks, Maniac, pretty sure you've pinpointed what happened there, I'll pass on about moving the Material Supplies to the base

 

[Flak Fox]

Being a huge fan of the series (and still having my Planetary Pack box set w/ Alien Crossfire), I was wondering if there were ever intentions of adding the other factions from Crossfire? I'm sure that'd be a bit of a challenge but I also thing it'd really up the grade of this amazing mod

 

[GeoModder]

If you mean the Cult of Planet, Cybernetic Consciousness and so on, I think those will be "represented" as a sort of religion. Pirates and the alien factions are planned to be included, don't know for the Data Angels.

 

[Cmcastl]

Is there any way of copying the original SMAC Peacekeepers musics over to that faction, my favourite? Alternatively, I would be quite happy to have the title music to copy over.

Live long and prosper.

 

[GeoModder]

Is there any way of copying the original SMAC Peacekeepers musics over to that faction, my favourite?

The only method I ever heard is to start up SMAC, choose the Peacekeeper faction, link and enable a recording program or device and let your computer run for an hour or so. This way you can record the typical Peacekeeper music.

 

[Rubin]

Is there any way of copying the original SMAC Peacekeepers musics over to that faction, my favourite? Alternatively, I would be quite happy to have the title music to copy over.

Live long and prosper.

The only method I ever heard is to start up SMAC, choose the Peacekeeper faction, link and enable a recording program or device and let your computer run for an hour or so. This way you can record the typical Peacekeeper music.

The SMAC/X in-game music is created dynamically depending on what is happening (e.g. selecting units, viewing bases, fungal blooms, etc.). Hence, there is no actual faction specific composition, but rather preset pieces of ambient styles getting mixed within the game.

As GeoModder indicates, it is only possible to record (or post-recording mix) "typical" Peacekeeper music; and even this is somewhat misleading as some parts seem generic to multiple factions (I've tested this in SMACX).

I did an in-game recording of the basic Peacekeeper game ambience and mixed the music in Audacity for a general early game ambient score. I've attached the mp3 result (don't know if it is included in the Planetfall downloads).

 

[Maniac]

It's the Peacekeeper and Gaian diplo music at the moment.
Edit: Actually AFAIK you never posted that before. A 818 KB diplo file is included though.

Alternatively, I would be quite happy to have the title music to copy over.

See FAQ in the first post of this thread. You can copy over SMAC sound files to Planetfall.

 

[Cmcastl]

Well, I am glad I asked. Thanks to all who responded.