Planning games in advance?

[denyd]

While I like the mystery and guessing in the pre-game chatter, I voted for pre-release of game level information to allow for a little better time planning. I got caught in COTM3 with not enough available time to play the game right and still be ready for GOTM 35. Knowing how much time I'll need in advance (level & map size) would make the planning a lot simpler and make it more likely I'd be able to complete most GOTM & COTM games.

The occasional "wild card" games as RFHolloway could be tempered with the "this is a quick one" or "get comfortable for the long ride" type warnings.

And as The Moose mentioned, the special tribes/units/resources add a special flavor to those games. I have more memories of the Han & Greek games than the more recent Spain & American games.

 

[ainwood]

Picking up on a few comments re the pre-game discussion, following a few experiments, I think it is best to provide the map up-front. The discussion surrounding this tends to even out the starts a bit more, and help the newer players get off to better starts - I think its a good learning tool. Rather than drip-feeding map details etc, I can always just post them in the first post, or post them all at once.

In terms of the difficulty, I have noticed that with the GOTM in particular I've put a lot of games in the Monarch / emperor band, and done it again (although this one works better at monarch I think). That band should be at a minimum widened to include regent, and I think a Deity or Warlord game should be thrown-in every few months - A chieftan game once-a-year too?

 

[Tone]

For me, I would like to open the save, and only then find out anything about the game. I would relent, and allow the map size to be advertised in advance.. but nothing else.

Would your settler know he was on a continents planet, with a temperate and wet climate etc. ? Nah. All he knows is that he is standing on a patch of dirt, and it's either good enough for him or he moves on in hope...

I agree with most of this but I do enjoy the pre-game discussion and so a starting screen shot is a small concession to make. Also knowing the civ traits and game level is information that I would have once the game starts so why not have it to make this discussion more informed and helpful (particularly for newcomers)?

I do like the idea that all parameters that are not obvious from the starting position should remain a mystery. Certain aspects of civ are too predictable and a little variation would be appreciated. The next GOTM sounds promising in this regard

 

[jeffelammar]

I just wanted to say that I like the idea of Warlord and Chieftan games.

They really distill everything down to what the player does. The AI's have very little influence at this level. At the high levels the player's skill is still the prime distributor, but too much difference occurs because of the randomness of Leaders and such. I think a Warlord or Chieftan game would provide an interesting new perspective.

Another thing that could be done in such an "easy" game would be to have a "unique way of winning" contest. Each player who chose to participate would choose their own way of winning (or even losing). It could be as easy as taking a "Always War", but more original ideas would be encouraged.

For example, I think it would be interesting to try to win by diplomacy when someone else has to build the UN.
Even more challenging, Try to lose by Space Race as early as possible. The possibilites are endless, and I think it would be really fun.

 

[stormbind]

I like surprises. Sometimes.

 

[Kaiser_Berger]

I think the GOTM/COTM should stay away from Cheiftain games. That level hardly requires much thought as for strategy and what not. One interesting concept would be to have a Chieftain game, but have us on a very small tundra island in the middle of a huge ocean, with the AI on lush continents. Now that would make for an interesting game

 

[Xerol]

If you do a Chieftain game, do it on a Large map with few AIs. Or a Tiny map with tons of AIs. Both would focus on fast expansion, although in different ways.

 

[gozpel]

I like to know only civ and difficulty, but since I don't care to play through the games to the end anymore after the Dutch "bread-crumb to cow", I don't even cast a vote.

I play through the ancient era and make the best of it, then do something else. I just might continue on the Maya-game though, it's a fun game and with 20+ cities at 1000bc I'm just curious where it could lead.

Civ and difficulty is important, the rest should be discovered by the player.

 

[Hannabir]

I would say that the info to be specified should be everything that is available to all players without requiring player skill - but what might be missed by some only because they don't know where or how to find it. Information that requires skill to figure out, should not be revealed.

So, yes to: map size, list of rivals.
And, no to: map settings.

Further, I would like to do away with the more outrageous random stuff such as early settlers from goodie huts and galleys surviving on ocean tiles. I would like it if getting a great leader were not random, but something that is earned, after a given number of elite victories etc. But I don't know if it is possible to change the game there.

A game on chieftain, warlord or regent is pretty dull unless the human player is handicapped in some way. The handicap should best be a surprise.

 

[Detlef Richter]

It's defnetly OK like it is.

 

[Offa]

I like to know only civ and difficulty, but since I don't care to play through the games to the end anymore after the Dutch "bread-crumb to cow".

I think that's a pity.

I believe there really was a trail of crumbs in that game and I wish I had been clever enough to see it. It was admittedly an indistinct trial and it proved hopelessly unbalancing. I think those of us who missed the trail have something to about.

However, I think Ainwood could help by reducing factors like this at the start.
This could be done fairly easily by providing either a good start spot or a clearcut first move. No huts within 10 squares. The early leader issue is also annoying but at least doesn't matter so much with Conquests. Telling us the map type also evens things out, as potentially big decisions need to be made as a result of this very early on.

 

[Groin_Apologist]

I voted for known difficulty level, mainly because I would like the COTM and GOTM to be alternate and opposite. (i.e. I'm not keen on playing anything above monarch yet). That way, I'd have at least one game a month to try my hand at.

 

[Karasu]

After Mistfit's thoughts in the KA01 thread, I am starting to believe that the timing of the information is more important that the way it is provided.

That is to say, the most beneficial change to the pregame discussion would probably be to have all the significant information five days to a week before the game is released.
I still like the slow dripping of bits of info, every month a new one, but it could also come all at once, and even one or more months in advance (although I would still vote against that).

But having a few days to discuss the starting location, with the main parameters known, would certainly help develop a worthy pregame discussion, at least in my opinion.

 

[t.neo]

I think mad-bax and Tone makes some really good points that I partially share with them.

I would like the map size, game level and civilization known in advance. Nothing else.

This information I would like to have released when the pregame discussion starts, proximally 5 days before the start of the game. This way the discussion will stick more to the point, and there will be enough time for experienced players to help newcomers (players like me ) to get a good start.

PS. I voted "Status Quo" because I also like it the way it is...although Ainwood can be a bit annoying sometimes... DS.

 

[alamo]

Voted to keep status quo.

Anyone seriously annoyed with Ainwood could voluteer to row the boat instead of rocking it.

The thing that annoys me the most is a difficult game that takes 12 hours then ends in defeat. I can do that on my own any time by playing diety spain castaway.

Out-of-phase difficulties sounds good in principle. I'll get conquest one of these days.

A warlord game is not so bad for the newbies. Lord knows I could have played a few of those. As long as the predator and creampuff flavors are available then everyone has a choice.

 

[civ_steve]

I've added my voice to the 'status quo' crowd, with some additional thoughts.

I like the pre-game discussion. Since this is a friendly competition, the early discussion helps to level the playing field, especially for less-experienced players. There are usually some very good tidbits of information and stratety approaches in the early discussions.

Not so happy about the drip-feeding ; only redeeming value is entertaining Ainwood and allowing the discussion to be on specific topics that have just been announced; the discussion is more focused this way. I'd recommend still drip-feeding, but knowledge of the civ should come out early.

It would help players who have to plan for which game to play, to know the size and difficulty level early. Maybe this could be set up a month or two in advance. (OTOH, these players could just choose on the fly whether to participate or not. I've been working on finishing my games faster, which really helps.)

I like the levels to ramp up and then start over, and I think this also helps to increase the skill levels of the new players. (When the level starts over again, it must seem much easier!) And I think they should be out-of-sequence with each other so those who are not so confident with their skills can play a lower level game. Most games should focus on Monarch-Emperor level, with shots at Regent and occasionally Demi-god/Deity (please!!) (When's Sid going to show up?). Lower than Regent should have some compensating challenge, as others have mentioned.

 

[dmanakho]

Regent-Monarch-Emperor game are the levels majority of the players are comfortable with....
Very few would enjoy to play a game below regent, much more players will enjoy playing above Emperor even not feeling comfortable with the level but simply to try their skills out.
I suggest we never play GOTMs/COTMs below regent.

Once in a while would be nice to have a mistery game, that is a game with zero spoiler information, well may be except the Civilization.

 

[ainwood]

Anyone seriously annoyed with Ainwood could voluteer to row the boat instead of rocking it.

I've got no problem with people voicing opinions. The aim here is to maximise the enjoyment for as many people as possible - if the consensus is that people hate drip-fed information, then I'll stop. In my current modus-operandi, I am aiming to have the starting map out 5 days before the game starts, and the civ the next day. Thinking that perhaps both of these on the same day would be better, and maybe even 7 days out.

 

[Tone]

: In my current modus-operandi, I am aiming to have the starting map out 5 days before the game starts, and the civ the next day. Thinking that perhaps both of these on the same day would be better, and maybe even 7 days out.

Pesonally I would not like the map too early. 5 days of not being able to play the map is frustrating; 7 days would be torture

However from these posts it appears that we all like different aspects of the GOTM. I guess that that you have have a concensus to carry on as you see fit, ainwood. From my point of view I enjoy the games and the forum discussions so Feel free to be as annoying as you please as long as the games continue to entertain us As alamo says

Anyone seriously annoyed with Ainwood could voluteer to row the boat instead of rocking it.

 

[Dianthus]

I like the levels to ramp up and then start over, and I think this also helps to increase the skill levels of the new players. (When the level starts over again, it must seem much easier!)

Me too! I caught the bottom of one of those ramps when I started with GOTM17 (Carthage/Regent) having only played about 3 games of Civ, and it definitely helped me up my skill level. I didn't do too well for quite a while, getting my first GOTM win with GOTM20 (Spain/Deity!!!). GOTM21 (Greece/Monarch) did seem a lot easier!